Leinster Squad 19-20

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wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

In the spirit of having nothing else to talk about, if the season ends now, who has been our POTY and YPOTY?

POTY nominees would include VDF, Ringer, DK and Larmour I think.
Hon mention to Big Dev and maybe Josh Murphy.

YPOTY for me is between Doris, Kelleher, Connors and Deegan (can he be classed as young?!).
Hon mention to JOB and Keenan too, both have done well and cemented Pro14 places.

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hugonaut
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by hugonaut »

wixfjord wrote:In the spirit of having nothing else to talk about, if the season ends now, who has been our POTY and YPOTY?

POTY nominees would include VDF, Ringer, DK and Larmour I think.
Hon mention to Big Dev and maybe Josh Murphy.

YPOTY for me is between Doris, Kelleher, Connors and Deegan (can he be classed as young?!).
Hon mention to JOB and Keenan too, both have done well and cemented Pro14 places.
Good topic - deserves a thread of its own, I think.

It would be Ringrose for me, I think he was having the best season of his career - two Heineken Cup hat-tricks in the space of a month! DK a very close second, his try scoring record this season has been phenomenal. It's a small consideration in light of what's going on in the world, but I've some sympathy for him that the best season of his career is being wound up half way through. I would also give a nod to Scott Fardy, who is up there with Isa, Felipe, Rocky, Ollie, Nathan Hines and Brad Thorn as one of the very best international players to have played for Leinster.

1. Garry Ringrose
2. Dave Kearney
3. Scott Fardy

Young player is very difficult between the players you've mentioned. I can't split Kelleher and Doris. It's not Kelleher's fault that he got injured, so he shouldn't be penalised for it. His start to the season was outstanding. He was a standout player in practically every second game he played. He would have started in the Six Nations if he hadn't picked up that injury, and that would have been a huge boost to his profile. Doris has just zoomed on from last season – everyone in the academy set-up was raving about him last year and it was always going to be a question of when rather than if, but he turned the 'when' into 'now' within three months.

Harry Byrne was a pleasure to watch, and his ceiling is so high. Hugo Keenan was a guy who really surprised me and is an honourable mention.

1. Ronan Kelleher & Caelan Doris
2. Will Connors
3. Harry Byrne

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deco
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by deco »

Surely Isa Nacewa is still nr 1 in both categories?
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hugonaut
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by hugonaut »

Good interview with Dan Sheehan here:
https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/academy-ho ... r6YoBFZGVk

leinsterforever
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by leinsterforever »

hugonaut wrote:Good interview with Dan Sheehan here:
https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/academy-ho ... r6YoBFZGVk
Kelleher and Sheehan as the two hookers in a first choice matchday squad is an exciting prospect for the future.

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Flash Gordon
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Flash Gordon »

hugonaut wrote:
wixfjord wrote:In the spirit of having nothing else to talk about, if the season ends now, who has been our POTY and YPOTY?

POTY nominees would include VDF, Ringer, DK and Larmour I think.
Hon mention to Big Dev and maybe Josh Murphy.

YPOTY for me is between Doris, Kelleher, Connors and Deegan (can he be classed as young?!).
Hon mention to JOB and Keenan too, both have done well and cemented Pro14 places.
Good topic - deserves a thread of its own, I think.

It would be Ringrose for me, I think he was having the best season of his career - two Heineken Cup hat-tricks in the space of a month! DK a very close second, his try scoring record this season has been phenomenal. It's a small consideration in light of what's going on in the world, but I've some sympathy for him that the best season of his career is being wound up half way through. I would also give a nod to Scott Fardy, who is up there with Isa, Felipe, Rocky, Ollie, Nathan Hines and Brad Thorn as one of the very best international players to have played for Leinster.

1. Garry Ringrose
2. Dave Kearney
3. Scott Fardy

Young player is very difficult between the players you've mentioned. I can't split Kelleher and Doris. It's not Kelleher's fault that he got injured, so he shouldn't be penalised for it. His start to the season was outstanding. He was a standout player in practically every second game he played. He would have started in the Six Nations if he hadn't picked up that injury, and that would have been a huge boost to his profile. Doris has just zoomed on from last season – everyone in the academy set-up was raving about him last year and it was always going to be a question of when rather than if, but he turned the 'when' into 'now' within three months.

Harry Byrne was a pleasure to watch, and his ceiling is so high. Hugo Keenan was a guy who really surprised me and is an honourable mention.

1. Ronan Kelleher & Caelan Doris
2. Will Connors
3. Harry Byrne
Would be looking at Ringrose, Dave, Fardy and James Lowe. Lowe has scored 7 tries and leads the club on clean breaks, offloads and meters gained. It feels like he's having a quiet season but I think we just get used to him being outstanding. Will Connors must also be in with a shout of the senior award, leading the club on 149 tackles although to be fair 142 of them were in one game....

I'd love to see Dave win it given his service to the club and I can't remember him having a better season.
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elephantman
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by elephantman »

leinsterforever wrote:
hugonaut wrote:Good interview with Dan Sheehan here:
https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/academy-ho ... r6YoBFZGVk
Kelleher and Sheehan as the two hookers in a first choice matchday squad is an exciting prospect for the future.
Not if Nucifora has anything to do with it..

mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by mildlyinterested »

Gt reporting Ringrose to sign 2 year central deal

wixfjord
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

I wonder what the impact on IRFU's business will have on our squad turnover.

I'd imagine it will be a tough sell to keep Tomane at this rate and that RK will retire too. Ferg potentially as well?
Hopefully the Fardy deal has already been done because if not we might face trouble there too.

On the plus side, it may mean that we see less movement from our fringe players if we're down to a very small number of NIQs.

Of all the squads in Europe, we're probably best place to weather this ironically. We've the talent coming in, we don't rely on expensive foreign players as much as anyone else and we likely have a set of players who are willing to take a small snip in wages to stay at home playing in a winning side.

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Twist
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Twist »

wixfjord wrote:I wonder what the impact on IRFU's business will have on our squad turnover.

I'd imagine it will be a tough sell to keep Tomane at this rate and that RK will retire too. Ferg potentially as well?
Hopefully the Fardy deal has already been done because if not we might face trouble there too.

On the plus side, it may mean that we see less movement from our fringe players if we're down to a very small number of NIQs.

Of all the squads in Europe, we're probably best place to weather this ironically. We've the talent coming in, we don't rely on expensive foreign players as much as anyone else and we likely have a set of players who are willing to take a small snip in wages to stay at home playing in a winning side.
Also foreign clubs are less likely to have money to wave at our lads

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hugonaut
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by hugonaut »

wixfjord wrote:I wonder what the impact on IRFU's business will have on our squad turnover.

I'd imagine it will be a tough sell to keep Tomane at this rate and that RK will retire too. Ferg potentially as well?
Hopefully the Fardy deal has already been done because if not we might face trouble there too.

On the plus side, it may mean that we see less movement from our fringe players if we're down to a very small number of NIQs.

Of all the squads in Europe, we're probably best place to weather this ironically. We've the talent coming in, we don't rely on expensive foreign players as much as anyone else and we likely have a set of players who are willing to take a small snip in wages to stay at home playing in a winning side.
No inside information here, but I don't think there's any chance of Tomane being re-contracted.

It's always a struggle for Leinster to get NIQs over the line with Nucifora. Tomane is the least vital of our NIQ quotient [he has to compete against Fardy and Lowe, so it's a big ask] and we have really young, talented and Irish-qualified cover in Conor O'Brien and Tommy O'Brien.

The NIQ guys get paid really well in general, and the IRFU will be cutting salaries next year – no doubt in my mind about it. They will probably be able to contract all three of the O'Briens at centre for what they are paying Tomane this season.

alanair
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by alanair »

hugonaut wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I wonder what the impact on IRFU's business will have on our squad turnover.

I'd imagine it will be a tough sell to keep Tomane at this rate and that RK will retire too. Ferg potentially as well?
Hopefully the Fardy deal has already been done because if not we might face trouble there too.

On the plus side, it may mean that we see less movement from our fringe players if we're down to a very small number of NIQs.

Of all the squads in Europe, we're probably best place to weather this ironically. We've the talent coming in, we don't rely on expensive foreign players as much as anyone else and we likely have a set of players who are willing to take a small snip in wages to stay at home playing in a winning side.
No inside information here, but I don't think there's any chance of Tomane being re-contracted.

It's always a struggle for Leinster to get NIQs over the line with Nucifora. Tomane is the least vital of our NIQ quotient [he has to compete against Fardy and Lowe, so it's a big ask] and we have really young, talented and Irish-qualified cover in Conor O'Brien and Tommy O'Brien.

The NIQ guys get paid really well in general, and the IRFU will be cutting salaries next year – no doubt in my mind about it. They will probably be able to contract all three of the O'Briens at centre for what they are paying Tomane this season.

I never thought I would be saying this , but I will be disappointed to see Tomane going. After a difficult first season ( mainly due to injury, but also inability to get up to the speed / fitness levels of the Leinster squad) , he has really stepped up this season , and has been a very useful and effective squad player , especially when Henrose have been away on International duties .

wixfjord
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

Yep I agree. He has been really good since about March/April last year, but particularly this season he has stepped up a level. A big shame for him, but I do think two years at Leinster will do wonders for his career if he can get a good move. He literally looks like a different player compared to his first few games here.

But I also agree with Hugo. He's a luxury NIQ.

While COB has been mixed this year he's not so far behind Tomane that it warrants keeping Joe on probably 2x/3x the salary.

I'm not sure the other O'Briens are as relevant to the 12 jersey, but Frawley can also play there as can ROL.

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hugonaut
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by hugonaut »

wixfjord wrote:Yep I agree. He has been really good since about March/April last year, but particularly this season he has stepped up a level. A big shame for him, but I do think two years at Leinster will do wonders for his career if he can get a good move. He literally looks like a different player compared to his first few games here.

But I also agree with Hugo. He's a luxury NIQ.

While COB has been mixed this year he's not so far behind Tomane that it warrants keeping Joe on probably 2x/3x the salary.

I'm not sure the other O'Briens are as relevant to the 12 jersey, but Frawley can also play there as can ROL.
I suppose I just bunched them together by dint of their shared surnames, primarily! That and the fact that they're all centres.

I am a big fan of Conor's and think that he has test level ability. It's not something that he has shown very often at Pro14 level, but he has a brilliant left boot – he can kick it for miles, and has a Gaelic player's range of kicking. He can send them high and far, he can scud them across the pitch, he can get them off across his hips like a goalie ... he's got a really wide range. There was an 'A' game in Donnybrook last season where he was used as our primary kicker out of defense and it stands out in my mind as one of the best kicking displays of any Leinster player from last season.

I think the 40-20 equivalent is going to come into play next season, and having another kicker alongside an outhalf is going to be very, very useful, especially a guy who is a complementary kicker in terms of his dominant foot. So I'm very hopeful about him.

Apparently No12 is Tommy O'Brien's preferred position – I've said before that I think he's got the frame for an outside back rather than a No12, but it's always a good idea to try guys where they want to play before you start dictating to them.

Jimmy was an outhalf in school, then moved one spot out for the Irish U20s in the 2016 U20 6N, and moved another spot out to No13 as he progressed with Leinster. Obviously he has played at No15 for Leinster as well. I think he could be our Noel Reid replacement in terms of his elusiveness, passing ability and occasional kicking.

wixfjord
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

hugonaut wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Yep I agree. He has been really good since about March/April last year, but particularly this season he has stepped up a level. A big shame for him, but I do think two years at Leinster will do wonders for his career if he can get a good move. He literally looks like a different player compared to his first few games here.

But I also agree with Hugo. He's a luxury NIQ.

While COB has been mixed this year he's not so far behind Tomane that it warrants keeping Joe on probably 2x/3x the salary.

I'm not sure the other O'Briens are as relevant to the 12 jersey, but Frawley can also play there as can ROL.
I suppose I just bunched them together by dint of their shared surnames, primarily! That and the fact that they're all centres.

I am a big fan of Conor's and think that he has test level ability. It's not something that he has shown very often at Pro14 level, but he has a brilliant left boot – he can kick it for miles, and has a Gaelic player's range of kicking. He can send them high and far, he can scud them across the pitch, he can get them off across his hips like a goalie ... he's got a really wide range. There was an 'A' game in Donnybrook last season where he was used as our primary kicker out of defense and it stands out in my mind as one of the best kicking displays of any Leinster player from last season.

I think the 40-20 equivalent is going to come into play next season, and having another kicker alongside an outhalf is going to be very, very useful, especially a guy who is a complementary kicker in terms of his dominant foot. So I'm very hopeful about him.


Apparently No12 is Tommy O'Brien's preferred position – I've said before that I think he's got the frame for an outside back rather than a No12, but it's always a good idea to try guys where they want to play before you start dictating to them.

Jimmy was an outhalf in school, then moved one spot out for the Irish U20s in the 2016 U20 6N, and moved another spot out to No13 as he progressed with Leinster. Obviously he has played at No15 for Leinster as well. I think he could be our Noel Reid replacement in terms of his elusiveness, passing ability and occasional kicking.
That's a very good point. Having a good left footed kicker at 12 does open up your options.

I'm a huge fan of JOB. He has a great skillset. Lovely passer.

leinsterforever
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by leinsterforever »

Tomane's been very good this season. Right from the pre-season game against Canada he looked far sharper than before. The thing is if they're not going to back COB next season to be the main man in the league at 12 when Henshaw's away then when are they? Better to back a 24-25 yo COB than a 25-26 yo COB the season after, or even risk losing COB through him becoming disillusioned through lack of opportunities at the same time as Tomane if they both left after next season.

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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by neiliog93 »

wixfjord wrote:In the spirit of having nothing else to talk about, if the season ends now, who has been our POTY and YPOTY?

POTY nominees would include VDF, Ringer, DK and Larmour I think.
Hon mention to Big Dev and maybe Josh Murphy.

YPOTY for me is between Doris, Kelleher, Connors and Deegan (can he be classed as young?!).
Hon mention to JOB and Keenan too, both have done well and cemented Pro14 places.
POTY = Dave Kearney
YPOTY = Rónan Kelleher
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Pilotman123
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Pilotman123 »

Would you say there’s possibly a chance of the Heineken Cup being played end of May and June?

mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by mildlyinterested »

RK saying he wants to play on next season, hard to know if that will be at Leinster given situation.. Wouldn't have thought so pre-crisis.

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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Dave Cahill »

Considering we'll be very lucky to see any of our internationals in blue this calendar year, I'd say that having quality players like Kearney and Tomane available is priority number one right now for Leinster
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