Nathan Hines is leaving

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ronk
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by ronk »

Sea_point wrote: I'm not so sure the future is bleak, we have talent but we're verrry slow in bringing it through.It isn't just at Ireland level that we are guilty of conservatism in selection, it's rife with the provinces too.

The IRFU has set down pretty stringent targets to ensure in terms of success on the pitch to ensure that there is enough money coming into the pipeline for rugby, but the inherant message sent to the provinces is play your Internationals in imprtant games, so they are. There still not enough opportunties for our brightest young players (especially young forwards) to play in fixtures that are care making brad the odd exception (like Cian Healy).

I would say that I'm impressed with Joe Schmidt attitude this season towards the younger players, Ulster have almost led the way by default in bringing younger players into their matchday squads but Schmidt is under far less pressure to do so but is being rewarded thus far for his positive attidude in this respect...

But overall in Ireland there is much more to do in terms of brigning through the next generation Ireland team, and preparing the one after that...
Well I didn't use the world bleak. At the moment we seem to have a system that seems to naturally be producing a lot of backrows, especially hybrid 6/7/8s. Due to concerns about front row development we've seen huge changes and improvement. I worry though about whether 2nd row has fallen behind. A lot of the young ones coming through are short ones who seem to effectively be auxiliary backrows. There are a couple of exceptions, like Toner, where an unusually tall athlete has been identified (and he's not without his critics), but then we start to draw a bit of a blank. There are guys like Caldwell who have gone backwards, but other than Toner, Caldwell and Donnacha Ryan we seem to think that young locks shouldn't be taller than 6ft 6.

Look at the Leinster academy, Flanagan is 6ft 6 (as is the recently graduated Sheriff) while Ruddock and Marshall are 6ft 4 and really just tall backrows who've been playing at lock because of competition in the backrow. Connacht have a good record of producing powerful locks, and sometimes you wonder what they'd be doing with fast-track development.
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ceemec
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by ceemec »

Michael Kearney looks decent in the U20 game. Very eager in the loose and appears to have good hands. Has held onto a couple of tricky offloads whilst hammering into contact. Hopefully he can make good on his early promise.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by [Jackass] »

Sherrif seems to have done very well with the A's. I'm not sure he's big enough though.

Toner is a specialist second row, i.e. hooker aim for the moon when throwing into the lineout and Toner will get up to it.

Around the park though, despite his weight etc., he lacks any real power, and i don't hink he'll ever be more than a great squad player, but not a go to guy like Hines has been.

I think with our depth in back-row, if we're going to use homegrown talent, then we need to look at guys like McLoughlin or Ruddock jr in the second row.

The role of a second row has evolved also, and it's nearly better to have 5 back-row forward on the pitch with lineout options (like McLoughlin, Heaslip & Ruddock) whilst having the ball winning ability, carrying and work rate of two extra back-rows.

If we can't get the 6'8" guys, then I say go with smaller guys who offer a lot more than your typical second row in every other aspect whilst still having decent lineout options.

A pack of Healy, Strauss, Wright, Ruddock, McLoughlin, O'Brien, Jennings, Heaslip - just saying... (how long has Cullen got left on contract...isn't he hitting 33 or so post world cup?)
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Peg Leg
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by Peg Leg »

I think Tom Palmer looks the biz.
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Xanthippe
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by Xanthippe »

Richie Gray

eventually someone will have to reply to this
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outcast eddie
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by outcast eddie »

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see a talent like Grey playing in our second row.
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ceemec
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by ceemec »

Gray is contracted already for next season. As John pointed out on another thread, we should probably look at a SH player that will be available throughout the WC and 6N. Not much benefit in signing someone who is going to be unavailable for 10 games next year before a ball is touched.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by artaneboy »

I'm really disappointed to see Hines go. Forget about his line-out ability or his soft hands, all that can be replaced - if not necessarily easily. No what I really value is his 'edge'; that air of menace, even malice and cleverness he brings to the field. It's hard to get a player that offers the required skill-set with that quality - and of course the cuteness to avoid referees' attentions! :wink: All successful teams have it and it was something we lacked in the years of under achievement. It's what allows your flair players to do their thing. Hines' was excellent at it and we'll miss him. I hope we don't draw Clermont again next year! The only candidate I can think of who'd be an adequate and potentially available- if possibly unaffordable is Thorne. Someone said Bakkies Botha was signed up - but he'd be another, that would do the job - defo! I say get the checkbook out and snag Thorne now.
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cormac
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by cormac »

artaneboy wrote:I'm really disappointed to see Hines go. Forget about his line-out ability or his soft hands, all that can be replaced - if not necessarily easily. No what I really value is his 'edge'; that air of menace, even malice and cleverness he brings to the field. It's hard to get a player that offers the required skill-set with that quality - and of course the cuteness to avoid referees' attentions! :wink: All successful teams have it and it was something we lacked in the years of under achievement. It's what allows your flair players to do their thing. Hines' was excellent at it and we'll miss him. I hope we don't draw Clermont again next year! The only candidate I can think of who'd be an adequate and potentially available- if possibly unaffordable is Thorne. Someone said Bakkies Botha was signed up - but he'd be another, that would do the job - defo! I say get the checkbook out and snag Thorne now.
Brad Thorn? He's contracted to play in Japan next year, plus he'd probably get no more than one season up here, given his age.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by artaneboy »

What- we can't compete with Japan now? Is it a done deal? As to his age (what is it, anway?), he looks fit enough to me for 2 years anyway.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by johng »

artaneboy wrote:What- we can't compete with Japan now? Is it a done deal? As to his age (what is it, anway?), he looks fit enough to me for 2 years anyway.
He is almost 2 years older than Hines. Forget him.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by johng »

ceemec wrote:Gray is contracted already for next season. As John pointed out on another thread, we should probably look at a SH player that will be available throughout the WC and 6N. Not much benefit in signing someone who is going to be unavailable for 10 games next year before a ball is touched.
I was meaning the 6N and AIs. (yes I know there are no AIs this year) If you get someone who is not going to the WC you miss out on Sharpe for one.

Personally. If they were all available, and out of contract, Isaac Ross would be my first choice, followed by Anthony Boric, then Sharpe. All 3 will be at the WC, barring injury.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by ceemec »

johng wrote:
ceemec wrote:Gray is contracted already for next season. As John pointed out on another thread, we should probably look at a SH player that will be available throughout the WC and 6N. Not much benefit in signing someone who is going to be unavailable for 10 games next year before a ball is touched.
I was meaning the 6N and AIs. (yes I know there are no AIs this year) If you get someone who is not going to the WC you miss out on Sharpe for one.

Personally. If they were all available, and out of contract, Isaac Ross would be my first choice, followed by Anthony Boric, then Sharpe. All 3 will be at the WC, barring injury.
Ross hasn't been with NZ since the 2009 3N so I reckon there's a very good chance he won't be going to the WC. If he was available from the Chiefs he'd be ideal but that seems unlikely as covered in another thread. I wouldn't be surprised if we went for someone who isn't a massive name. We've gone through potential candidates on the other thread and there are very few high profile locks that are going to be available. I wouldn't be surprised to see us get someone with international experience who isn't making their national squad anymore. There are several locks in NZ with a handful of caps who might be open to making the move. Of course, Sharpe would be a great coup but if anyone in France shows an interest we won't be able to compete with their cash. I'd happily take him though even if it meant missing the games in the WC.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by johng »

ceemec wrote:
johng wrote:
ceemec wrote:Gray is contracted already for next season. As John pointed out on another thread, we should probably look at a SH player that will be available throughout the WC and 6N. Not much benefit in signing someone who is going to be unavailable for 10 games next year before a ball is touched.
I was meaning the 6N and AIs. (yes I know there are no AIs this year) If you get someone who is not going to the WC you miss out on Sharpe for one.

Personally. If they were all available, and out of contract, Isaac Ross would be my first choice, followed by Anthony Boric, then Sharpe. All 3 will be at the WC, barring injury.
Ross hasn't been with NZ since the 2009 3N so I reckon there's a very good chance he won't be going to the WC. If he was available from the Chiefs he'd be ideal but that seems unlikely as covered in another thread. I wouldn't be surprised if we went for someone who isn't a massive name. We've gone through potential candidates on the other thread and there are very few high profile locks that are going to be available. I wouldn't be surprised to see us get someone with international experience who isn't making their national squad anymore. There are several locks in NZ with a handful of caps who might be open to making the move. Of course, Sharpe would be a great coup but if anyone in France shows an interest we won't be able to compete with their cash. I'd happily take him though even if it meant missing the games in the WC.
Didn't realise it was so long. Quick!! Let's buy out the rest of Rosses contract now so! He is athletic, young, tall, great in the lineout, strong, good around the park, decent brain..... and crucially, 9 months for the price of 7.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by ceemec »

johng wrote: Didn't realise it was so long. Quick!! Let's buy out the rest of Rosses contract now so! He is athletic, young, tall, great in the lineout, strong, good around the park, decent brain..... and crucially, 9 months for the price of 7.
Jesus, John. Do you want to sign him or shag him?
:lol:
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johng
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by johng »

ceemec wrote:
johng wrote: Didn't realise it was so long. Quick!! Let's buy out the rest of Rosses contract now so! He is athletic, young, tall, great in the lineout, strong, good around the park, decent brain..... and crucially, 9 months for the price of 7.
Jesus, John. Do you want to sign him or shag him?
:lol:
:lol:

Looks like that OK. I meant athletic in his performance, young in terms of his career and compared to Hines & Sharpe, and tall.......well he's about 6'7"

But if he had the right appendages or lack thereof I would seriously consider it. :D
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by Xanthippe »

ceemec wrote:Gray is contracted already for next season.
Unless he signed an extension to his contract then his current one should expire in December this year and lets be honest with the World Cup we're not going to get any of the other possibilities mentioned until at the very least November.
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Leezer
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by Leezer »

Xanthippe wrote:
Leezer wrote: can we put some steroids in his weetabix? i'd love to see a 6-10 Wrecking machine
Richie Gray?

just fork out the money for Gray before he gets a better contact elsewhere
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Vamos los azules
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by Vamos los azules »

Both the SRU and the WRU are struggling to keep their top players in the country these days so I'd be inclined to look there and see if someone like Gray or Alun Wyn Jones could be picked up if the SH trawl doesn't yield anything.

Hines will be a loss though. I wasn't that enthused when we signed him because I just thought he was a bit of a hard man but seeing him playing week in and week out he brings a lot of skills in addition to that.
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Re: Nathan Hines is leaving

Post by Ultra Vires »

Whoever we get has to be a big hard enforcer. We lack them in the provinces. Huge part of Leinster's success these past few seasons was due to Rocky and Hines. They didn't take sh*t from anyone. French packs are so menacing that we just have to have someone equivalent if we are to continue to compete.
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