10 Year Magners League attendances chart

[MelbourneRebel]

(Updated to have graphs for Ireland, Wales and all ML sides... the colours don't match the traditional club colours, didn't have time to mess with the Excel defaults)

Magners League (source of stats: MagnersLeague.com)


Aviva Premiership (source of stats: statbunker.com Note: Their Magners League stats don't correspond with those from the Magners League website so I am not sure how reliable these are)...

[MelbourneRebel]

Interesting to see the charted progress in Magners League attendances for the 3 main Irish sides this decade. The growth by Leinster is spectacular. Munsters too, but theirs seems to be hugely reactionary to on the pitch success, and took a worrying dip this year, whereas ours is a steady year on year growth.

Interesting to see that Ulster's remains consistent and moderate, decent attendances but they have failed to make any inroads. Is this a failure of has the Ulster branch hit the ground running from the beginning?

Our attendances are growing at an amazing rate. Could this continue to grow, are we at saturation point? As Leinster begins to do the right thing and appeal to more areas than its traditional support strongholds there could be huge potential for continued growth.

If things keep growing, can the RDS be expanded further? Should they be looking at playing more (or all?) games in the Aviva?

[olaf the fat]

But you have to take into account our move from Donnybrook to the RDS, and Munster remodeling of Thomond. IIRC Ulster had a bit of work done as well, but I dont recall how it affected seating numbers

[MelbourneRebel]

But you have to take into account our move from Donnybrook to the RDS, and Munster remodeling of Thomond. IIRC Ulster had a bit of work done as well, but I dont recall how it affected seating numbers

Weren't the moves to facilitate the rises? They seem consistent

[Ultra Vires]

Interesting to see the charted progress in Magners League attendances for the 3 main Irish sides this decade. The growth by Leinster is spectacular. Munsters too, but theirs seems to be hugely reactionary to on the pitch success, and took a worrying dip this year, whereas ours is a steady year on year growth.

Interesting to see that Ulster's remains consistent and moderate, decent attendances but they have failed to make any inroads. Is this a failure of has the Ulster branch hit the ground running from the beginning?

Our attendances are growing at an amazing rate. Could this continue to grow, are we at saturation point? As Leinster begins to do the right thing and appeal to more areas than its traditional support strongholds there could be huge potential for continued growth.

If things keep growing, can the RDS be expanded further? Should they be looking at playing more (or all?) games in the Aviva?

Firstly, lets stay in the RDS. Its home, its got great atmosphere, and I love the small size and intimate feel. Plus, for most Magners matches its not full. We only get about 5 matches in an entire season where its not big enough and we can use the Aviva for those and only those. If anything they should look to redevelop the Anglesea stand so that the quality of the seating (view) is better and have a proper box for each coaching team to sit in. If they fixed that stand they could probably increase the capacity by another 5,000 anyway.

Munster's sudden jump in attendance around 2008 shouldn't necessarily be attributed to their second HC success - it was also the time when the redeveloped Thomond was re-opened so the capacity jumped up hugely and the crowds came in to fill it. But it is disappointing that the crowds have fallen away this last year there. Obviously a serious number of bandwagoners didnt bother turning up when the HC wasn't working out for them. The same will happen when Leinster's form dips - I guarantee it. Ulster's pool of supporters will (can) never rise above a certain number for the simple reason that up there in the North it is still considered very much a British sport played by the Protestant elite. A huge section of the population are (bigoted) working class soccer supporters and another huge section are Catholic GAA supporters. Neither group will be open to joining and supporting Ulster rugby. There's more chance of seeing a big rise in Connacht attendances following their qualification for the HC next season.

[MelbourneRebel]

Munster's sudden jump in attendance around 2008 shouldn't necessarily be attributed to their second HC success - it was also the time when the redeveloped Thomond was re-opened so the capacity jumped up hugely and the crowds came in to fill it. But it is disappointing that the crowds have fallen away this last year there. Obviously a serious number of bandwagoners didnt bother turning up when the HC wasn't working out for them. The same will happen when Leinster's form dips - I guarantee it. Ulster's pool of supporters will (can) never rise above a certain number for the simple reason that up there in the North it is still considered very much a British sport played by the Protestant elite. A huge section of the population are (bigoted) working class soccer supporters and another huge section are Catholic GAA supporters. Neither group will be open to joining and supporting Ulster rugby. There's more chance of seeing a big rise in Connacht attendances following their qualification for the HC next season.

Fair points. The average before 2008 was still at least 1000 below the capacity of Musgrave, the move to a larger stadium (coupled with success) saw a demand for tickets which blew that gap away of course.

I agree Leinster will probably see a drop off in fans from the current batch who attend, but could this be offset by appealing to the (massive) social demographic in Dublin and beyond which traditionally has not been open to rugby?

Edit:
Is redeveloping the main stand actually possible? Is it a listed structure?

That aside, would the RDS be open to the idea of touching their traditional stand?

[Edna Kenny]

I think it will be a long time before Leinster outgrow the RDS. It would be great to see it re-developed and to improve include a terrace all the way along the Anglesea stand as well as covered north and south. If it was somewhere around 20k capacity Iit would be ideal. I doubt the RDS would mind re-developing it but it would be a huge outlay in difficult times. Leinster are still paying back Donnybrook as far as I know so I think for now they will hold off developing the RDS. I haven't seen the RDS full all year, I think the last time it was packed was Clermont last year.

[Bosco]

My maths show an average of 16k for this year for Munster

[berniemac67]

My maths show an average of 16k for this year for Munster

but was the thread on sequences of odd numbers indicative of your maths skills?

[crisco10]

Funny that in 03/04 our attendance was ~2.5k. In April we sent that many to Thomond for the league game.

[olaf the fat]

Funny that in 03/04 our attendance was ~2.5k. In April we sent that many to Thomond for the league game.

and the figures back then cant really be trusted. For example when the smart cards season tickets were used, most tickets were recycled when inside to allow another 20 or 30 kids in. Overheard them at one game just looking around and guestimating the attendace.

[Ultra Vires]

Munster's sudden jump in attendance around 2008 shouldn't necessarily be attributed to their second HC success - it was also the time when the redeveloped Thomond was re-opened so the capacity jumped up hugely and the crowds came in to fill it. But it is disappointing that the crowds have fallen away this last year there. Obviously a serious number of bandwagoners didnt bother turning up when the HC wasn't working out for them. The same will happen when Leinster's form dips - I guarantee it. Ulster's pool of supporters will (can) never rise above a certain number for the simple reason that up there in the North it is still considered very much a British sport played by the Protestant elite. A huge section of the population are (bigoted) working class soccer supporters and another huge section are Catholic GAA supporters. Neither group will be open to joining and supporting Ulster rugby. There's more chance of seeing a big rise in Connacht attendances following their qualification for the HC next season.

Fair points. The average before 2008 was still at least 1000 below the capacity of Musgrave, the move to a larger stadium (coupled with success) saw a demand for tickets which blew that gap away of course.

I agree Leinster will probably see a drop off in fans from the current batch who attend, but could this be offset by appealing to the (massive) social demographic in Dublin and beyond which traditionally has not been open to rugby?

Edit:
Is redeveloping the main stand actually possible? Is it a listed structure?

That aside, would the RDS be open to the idea of touching their traditional stand?

Agreed. There is still potential for the Leinster fanbase to grow further, in the same way that successful English soccer teams find new "fans" in Ireland all the time. These will only come as Leinster continues to win big and will disappear overnight when things aren't working out and won't even bother with the less glamorous Magners League matches. Therefore there is no real point to expanding the RDS beyond say 20,000 capacity. Otherwise it will look like all the Welsh stadiums, half empty most of the time. Keep it small and cosy and atmospheric.

The Anglesea Stand is a dump. It is inefficient in terms of what it provides and it looks ugly so I wouldn't worry about it being a so-called "protected" structure. Buildings are not automatically "listed". Someone has to take the time to do so. Who would have applied to have it listed? Its not like its some beautiful Georgian building and it was never threatened by any greedy developer because it is on RDS property. The RDS would be thrilled to have a new stand in its place with better facilities because it would still be used at the Horseshow and for concerts etc. The big problem is who will pay for it? Not Leinster. Can't afford it after the Donnybrook fiasco. Therefore it will stay as is unfortunately.

[Sauvignon Blank]

Ulster's pool of supporters will (can) never rise above a certain number for the simple reason that up there in the North it is still considered very much a British sport played by the Protestant elite. A huge section of the population are (bigoted) working class soccer supporters and another huge section are Catholic GAA supporters. Neither group will be open to joining and supporting Ulster rugby. There's more chance of seeing a big rise in Connacht attendances following their qualification for the HC next season.

Complete and utter ignorant nonsense

[fourthirtythree]

Over at the final in 2009 I met a bunch of passionate Ulster Rugby supporters, wearing their Ulster jerseys, who were Celtic fans. As it happens I know lots of Celtic fans that aren't <insert your stereotype here> also.
You might find the opposite to be useful generalisations, but to state that there is no future in soccer fans or catholics supporting Ulster rugby is simply not true. The world moves on.

Connacht though. Don't know about that. We'll see.

[Bosco]

My maths show an average of 16k for this year for Munster

but was the thread on sequences of odd numbers indicative of your maths skills?

Have you not got that joke yet?

[berniemac67]

My maths show an average of 16k for this year for Munster

but was the thread on sequences of odd numbers indicative of your maths skills?

Have you not got that joke yet?

oh, a joke? very funny

i thought you hadn't finished learning all your numbers yet

[deco]

Ulster's pool of supporters will (can) never rise above a certain number for the simple reason that up there in the North it is still considered very much a British sport played by the Protestant elite. 99.9% of the population are bigoted and another huge section are Catholic GAA supporters. Neither group will be open to joining and supporting Ulster rugby. There's more chance of seeing a big rise in Connacht attendances following their qualification for the HC next season.

Complete and utter ignorant nonsense

fixed

[jggy2003]

That's a very nice chart,well done...it would be interesting to see the average gate as another line. I think it was well down this year. It would also be an interesting exercise to do this exercise with the heino cup !!!

[ronk]

I think the graph shows that the recession has bit hard but Leinster managed to grow their attendance a little with more games and some big fixtures in Lansdowne Road.

For the first time Munster are having to really work to sell tickets and they failed to consolidate when they had the chance. They're belatedly increasing the number of full memberships available to the MRSC but the problem now is that they've lost their hook. Heineken Cup tickets are likely to be available on a match by match basis so the commitment to full membership isn't as important.

Leinster aren't likely to rise much further, we might manage it if we can shift an increased number of season tickets but I wouldn't expect to drive the same numbers of Lansdowne Road events in a World Cup year.

[mikerob]

The introduction of the Italian teams will have pushed down the averages - if Leinster had played Munster in the RDS rather than LR, would the average still be up for 10/11?

From an Ulster perspective, the redevelopment of Ravenhill has actually reduced capacity over the last couple of seasons but with increased revenue from the corporate facilities. This has pushed down Ulster's total as the maximum attendance at the guaranteed sell-out games (the 3 inter-pros) has been reduced.

The other reason for Ulster's decline in attendance is obviously the team's sh!te performances from 07/08 to 09/10 when the Ulster finished 9 from 10, 8 from 10 and 8 from 10 in the league. Given that, the optimist would say that attendances have actually held up pretty well considering the performance in the pitch.

However Ulster finished 3rd this year and there hasn't been a corresponding uptick in attendances. There has been some debate on this on uafc and the feeling is that having the games on free-to-air BBC NI for the first time may have been a reason. A 7pm kick-off on a Friday night will limit attendance from outside Belfast and, let's face it, if it is pissing down a storm and the game is against someone like Glasgow, the occasional fan will tend to stay at home on the sofa with a can and a take-away. Games on free-to-air have other benefits in terms of exposure but this is more difficult to quantify than attendances.

With planned further redevelopment of Ravenhill, the capacity is likely to drop further during the period when stands are being rebuilt.