Think you need to direct your question to @sullyirishtimes
A whiff of Cordite
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
I like your right leg. A lovely leg for the role.
I've got nothing against your right leg.
The trouble is ... neither have you
I've got nothing against your right leg.
The trouble is ... neither have you
Re: A whiff of Cordite
I find facts cloud my judgement, I prefer to rely on instinct and blind prejudice
Re: A whiff of Cordite
I would have thought "talent" relates to a player's natural ability - nature rather than nurture. As such, Cian Healy is a very talented prop and Jordan Larmour is a very talented winger/full back.Dwarf wrote: ↑July 13th, 2020, 6:59 pm I’d have ranked BOD and McCaw very highly but talent is more something I tend to associate with backs. McCaw was more of a dogged player. Yes good jumpers throwers and scrummagers can be classed as skilful or talented but it is a term more often than not reserved for backs.
I suppose I just wanted to get an outline of what he means when he uses the term as it is very vague and broad without giving specifics about a group of players‘ skillsets.
What sets this group or any individual from the pack? By my reasoning none of them are super fast or super big. So the talent must be in relation to other areas of their games or in relation to their ability compared to other players around the country? Greater numbers don’t make for better players always.
The point about Carlin Isles is a valid one. Obviously worse as he didn’t achieve as much but maybe in another country he could have been a great. Speed tends to paper over many shortcomings in players’ games and gives them a chance to make up for mistakes. Speedsters tend to be labelled as talented because they can go around players. I would usually label a speedster talented.
My definition of talent is the ability to do things on the pitch very few other players can do. Without making this about me I’d like to get Mildlys view on what makes these players talented as I don’t know enough about them.
Re: A whiff of Cordite
Ah I actually thought his article was mostly fine, though it must get discouraging reading the same, “No, this year we’ll be good” / “Well, if they hadn’t scored the 5 tries then we would have beaten them by a point, so we’re actually doing really well” article every 12 months.deco wrote:I see Gerry has another of his love-in articles about his beloved "Munster" in today's Times. I won't quote the populist dribble, as you've heard most of it before.
Re: A whiff of Cordite
from the IT today... ?Dwarf wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 8:27 amCorrect but he throws around the term quite a lot without alluding to what he means. It’s a vague way of praising a players ability without getting into the specifics. Question still standsjohng wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 12:01 amPossibly why he wrote this underneath.Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑July 13th, 2020, 11:06 pm Turns out is a direct quote, first 2 paragraphs in the article
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4302638
It’s short for Irish Times, an abbreviation not a pronoun.
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
He is saying I throw around the term talented around without explaining what I mean.ronk wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 7:41 pmfrom the IT today... ?
It’s short for Irish Times, an abbreviation not a pronoun.
talent
/ˈtalənt/
noun
1.
natural aptitude or skill.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
I think he was looking for a conversation, nice one mildly...
Re: A whiff of Cordite
Yes but I guess what I’m getting at is what specific skills they possess. Just saying the are naturally better without giving reason or explanation comes across as subjective.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 7:46 pmHe is saying I throw around the term talented around without explaining what I mean.
talent
/ˈtalənt/
noun
1.
natural aptitude or skill.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.
Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.
Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.
Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.
Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.
Re: A whiff of Cordite
Soroka is an interesting one. He’s an all rounder can do a bit of everything. I think he’ll be future 6 for Leinster in maybe 4 or 5 years time. Could be sooner. Might never happen if he doesn’t do the work but the talent is there and plain to see.Up Wexford wrote: ↑July 16th, 2020, 12:24 pm It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.
Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.
Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.
McCarthy looks like a very good promotion he impressed me no end on the Ireland U 20’s last Season. He has a bit of ballast which is what you need in your second row.
This is all bearing in mind they are 19/20 year olds - it might not translate but the signs are promising
Re: A whiff of Cordite
What ability does he have to do things on the pitch that very few other players can do?Dwarf wrote: ↑July 16th, 2020, 7:08 pmSoroka is an interesting one. He’s an all rounder can do a bit of everything. I think he’ll be future 6 for Leinster in maybe 4 or 5 years time. Could be sooner. Might never happen if he doesn’t do the work but the talent is there and plain to see.Up Wexford wrote: ↑July 16th, 2020, 12:24 pm It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.
Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.
Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.
What specific skills does he possess?
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~The Late Great Mick English
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
Well if he’s a forward he probably isn’t talented at all ??
Re: A whiff of Cordite
Top class lineout operator, good carrier, good athlete as in is stronger and faster than most. He’s also very versatile because of athleticism I imagine he could play anywhere in the back five of the forwards.OTT wrote: ↑July 16th, 2020, 7:17 pmWhat ability does he have to do things on the pitch that very few other players can do?Dwarf wrote: ↑July 16th, 2020, 7:08 pmSoroka is an interesting one. He’s an all rounder can do a bit of everything. I think he’ll be future 6 for Leinster in maybe 4 or 5 years time. Could be sooner. Might never happen if he doesn’t do the work but the talent is there and plain to see.Up Wexford wrote: ↑July 16th, 2020, 12:24 pm It is an interesting conversation to have for sure. Off the top of my head Luke Fitzgerald and Jordan Larmour would be an example of two players who were marked as supremely talented from day one and it translated directly to success with the senior squad. From what I remember James Ryan didnt even have the grace period of being earmarked, it was senior cup squad then boom Ireland and Leinster . Jamie Heaslip was another who was described as talented all the way through age grade and in my opinion kept that trajectory the whole way through.
Conversley Tadgh Furlong was obviously talented but he was also earmarked in the age grade system for his unique body shape, which might not fit the definition of raw, mercurial talent for the purposes of this discussion? Porter is similar, his physical attributes propelled him to where he is, and perhaps his specific talents around the field have been practiced and honed to produce results.
Some of us may not have access to games of academy players to be able to see the next Larmour/Fitzgerald in action, and I think the original post was curious as to what marks say, Sokora out from the crowd.
What specific skills does he possess?
That’s more than Mildly will give you. He just says talented and expects it to be fact!
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
Excellent hands i.e. catching the ball and passing it to a team-mate;
Explosive acceleration and running balance over 15m i.e. runs away from effective tackles;
Good tackler on both sides i.e. he can tackle opponents with his right & left shoulders;
Reads the game well i.e. he anticipates where to support and where to defend earlier than most.
Defining talent is like parsing poetry. It should be prohibited on the grounds of good taste.
Explosive acceleration and running balance over 15m i.e. runs away from effective tackles;
Good tackler on both sides i.e. he can tackle opponents with his right & left shoulders;
Reads the game well i.e. he anticipates where to support and where to defend earlier than most.
Defining talent is like parsing poetry. It should be prohibited on the grounds of good taste.
Re: A whiff of Cordite
So should spouting opinions as if they were facts.Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 8:23 pm Excellent hands i.e. catching the ball and passing it to a team-mate;
Explosive acceleration and running balance over 15m i.e. runs away from effective tackles;
Good tackler on both sides i.e. he can tackle opponents with his right & left shoulders;
Reads the game well i.e. he anticipates where to support and where to defend earlier than most.
Defining talent is like parsing poetry. It should be prohibited on the grounds of good taste.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
Dunno small man. Apart from his emoji work, which I am not a fan of, he’s a top class contributor to the site.Dwarf wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 8:59 pmSo should spouting opinions as if they were facts.Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 8:23 pm Excellent hands i.e. catching the ball and passing it to a team-mate;
Explosive acceleration and running balance over 15m i.e. runs away from effective tackles;
Good tackler on both sides i.e. he can tackle opponents with his right & left shoulders;
Reads the game well i.e. he anticipates where to support and where to defend earlier than most.
Defining talent is like parsing poetry. It should be prohibited on the grounds of good taste.
Re: A whiff of Cordite
Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 9:26 pm Dunno, I’m definitely not a fan of his emoji work, apart from that he’s a top class contributor to the site.
This place has become seriously tetchy of late. Mildly adds a huge amount to this site. I wish some others would give it a rest with the school bullshit.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
Another Munster love letter from GT: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4309119
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Re: A whiff of Cordite
First European Cup game was against Swansea; not Saracens; as Gerry states. Probably just a typo. Sure the English clubs didn't even compete that year. Also; if only that last minute penalty wasn't conceded or missed by the All Blacks at Musgrave Park in 1973 to secure a 3-3 draw; the whole folklore could have been a hell of a lot different.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2020, 8:10 am Another Munster love letter from GT: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4309119