A whiff of Cordite

[Fireworks]

Plenty of talk about Leinster having too much talent in the papers these days. David Kelly with the latest.

Yep, Brendan Fanning cutting to the heart of it too, re: MUnsters problems and JVG in particular:

"He is there long enough now to understand three things: complaining about the Player Management Programme is like giving out about your wife to your mother-in-law; Munster's struggle with player development started before he arrived; and, perhaps hardest to swallow, he'd be better off recruiting from Leinster, the chief supplier of human resources in the Irish game, rather than dialling up contacts in South Africa."

Interesting times ahead methinks!

There is an issue for Irish rugby but I worry that the solution they will pick is to rely on the Leinster production line and more sharing rather than helping the others to build their own production lines. We obviously do have a population advantage but that doe not mean the other three cannot do better with the resources they have. I believe that reforming the AIL and helping to build the schools game in the other provinces on top of building their academies is the way forward. But obviously what I think id not worth much and short term thinking might not be good for us. Fingers crossed..

[Twist]

Our population advantage isn't even that pronounced when compared to Ulster; 2.6 million as against 2.2 million. Munster has 1.2 million.

[ronk]

Recruiting IQ, projects and from other provinces changes status for the Irish team but is the same thing as signing NIQs for Munster.

Using the count of foreign players as a KPI is humbug. If an academy player doesnt get a chance because of Johnny Foreigner, Johnny Leinster or Johnny Mediorcre Local the result is the same. They aren't getting a shot.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Whatever about Nucifora's plan, if you were Andy Farrell would you want, for example, Connors going to Munster right now?

I think that's a big question for the powers that be at the moment, is the extra game time necessarily better than the Leinster environment? Another big one is if players would be injured less if they played more regularly, and I suppose both questions are linked.

[fourthirtythree]

Our population advantage isn't even that pronounced when compared to Ulster; 2.6 million as against 2.2 million. Munster has 1.2 million.

But Ulster doesn't really get to pick from 2.2 million people. There's an issue the IRFU could look at prioritising for the long term health of the game...

[the spoofer]

I'm not sure is the raft of articles advocating Leinster players move just the journos talking shite or are they getting fed the party line from Lansdowne Road. It could be either.

[locho]

Our population advantage isn't even that pronounced when compared to Ulster; 2.6 million as against 2.2 million. Munster has 1.2 million.

But Ulster doesn't really get to pick from 2.2 million people. There's an issue the IRFU could look at prioritising for the long term health of the game...

Why not?

[fourthirtythree]

Let's just say history.

[ronk]

Whatever about Nucifora's plan, if you were Andy Farrell would you want, for example, Connors going to Munster right now?

I think that's a big question for the powers that be at the moment, is the extra game time necessarily better than the Leinster environment? Another big one is if players would be injured less if they played more regularly, and I suppose both questions are linked.

Connors' progress is strongly related to the work of Hugh Hogan. There's no reason to think he would be so impressive in Munster.

Munster have some very talented young backrows who would miss out like O'Sullivan. With Cloete and O'Donnell there is already competition in Munster. Where would the extra gametime come from?

Moving players is the wrong lesson to learn from his progress. Munster should be looking to replicate the coaching innovations of Leinster.

[The Doc]

Let's just say history.

Apparently it's Munster's problem as well - avoiding being seen to stray into other organisations' patch

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Munster have some very talented young backrows who would miss out like O'Sullivan. With Cloete and O'Donnell there is already competition in Munster. Where would the extra gametime come from?

Moving players is the wrong lesson to learn from his progress. Munster should be looking to replicate the coaching innovations of Leinster.

Seriously? That's not competition for him, he'd be their first choice 7 by a distance.

[wixfjord]

Such utter nonsense -
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 38021.html

Des Berry loves an auld under-researched listicle.

[Dave Cahill]

Such utter nonsense -
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 38021.html

Des Berry loves an auld under-researched listicle.

The point of these articles is their existence, not their content. Enough of these between now and the end of the season and people will be resigned to a few players being shifted away (all by their own choice of course no one elses nothing to do with anyone else they decided to do it entirely of their own bat stay away from that curtain would you like to buy some beans) - in fact when they only move two or three people will actually be happy its so few.

Then the guys who write them will be invited to private chats with the national coach/performance director

[ronk]

Munster have some very talented young backrows who would miss out like O'Sullivan. With Cloete and O'Donnell there is already competition in Munster. Where would the extra gametime come from?

Moving players is the wrong lesson to learn from his progress. Munster should be looking to replicate the coaching innovations of Leinster.

Seriously? That's not competition for him, he'd be their first choice 7 by a distance.

Yeah, you're right. Cloete hasn't even done his 3 project years and he's a good player for them. Signing a newer shinier model is expensive. Even if they get Connors cheap they sideline guys on a solid wedge. And they've already neglected Conor Oliver.

The gametime that Connors is getting in rotation is enough to get him into the Irish squad. Are there Munster players breaking though so quickly?

[mildlyinterested]

What a joke of an article

[blockhead]

Whatever about Nucifora's plan, if you were Andy Farrell would you want, for example, Connors going to Munster right now?

I think that's a big question for the powers that be at the moment, is the extra game time necessarily better than the Leinster environment? Another big one is if players would be injured less if they played more regularly, and I suppose both questions are linked.

If this post was from anyone else I would assume it was a wind up.
Lets see, Conners to Munster Right Now.
Why Conners and Why Munster.
Munster already have POM, CJ, ODonnell, Botha, Cloete, O'Suilivan. O'Donohoue, Oliver Coombes, Beirne.
Yeah, so lets throw our breakthrough player of the season over to the oul enemy before the last 2 rounds of the group phase.
Leavey is out, (so is Conan btw) VDF will be with the national set up for all of the 6N along with Ruddock leaving us well short. But no concern, as long as Munster are covered then thats just GRAND.
But why Munster?
Why not Ulster who have a serious chance of making progress in the Heino?
Why not Connacht who could do with a little help getting into the Pro14 playoffs?

Let Munster eat fcukin cake!

[ronk]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/010 ... the-pro14/

Giving out about the Pro14 and talking about merging with the Prem. Many issues with the argument but my favourite is the idea of getting rid of the Italians and Saffers, then having 2 conferences of 12 each. Some fairly basic issues with counting there.

[Ruckedtobits]

Such utter nonsense -
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 38021.html

Des Berry loves an auld under-researched listicle.

The point of these articles is their existence, not their content. Enough of these between now and the end of the season and people will be resigned to a few players being shifted away (all by their own choice of course no one elses nothing to do with anyone else they decided to do it entirely of their own bat stay away from that curtain would you like to buy some beans) - in fact when they only move two or three people will actually be happy its so few.

Then the guys who write them will be invited to private chats with the national coach/performance director

'Paper doesn't refuse ink' was the old excuse and 'Even Monkeys can eventually type Shakespeare' is the modern equivalent.

Sub-editors demand a certain word content and spewing out rubbish is easier than doing some real research.

Serial winners rarely attract new fans, ask the Patriots in the NFL.

[the spoofer]

I revise my opinion. There are too many of these articles from IRFU pet journo's for it to be a coincidence. Definitely some spinning going on.

[The Doc]

Our population advantage isn't even that pronounced when compared to Ulster; 2.6 million as against 2.2 million. Munster has 1.2 million.

This bit gets to me - along with the "massive pipeline of schools players into the Leinster academy" line that gets trotted out. It's lazy.

How many Leinster (sub) academy contracts get handed out each year? A half dozen? It's exactly the same for all the provinces. The Leinster team isn't selected from 2.6 million people. It is selected from 40 something just as with all the provinces. There is nothing stopping Munster (or anyone) filling their boots with talented players who don't get picked up by the Leinster academy - the "massive pipeline".

It's a political issue. Munster don't want to offer many / all of their academy spots to Leinster schools players because it would be a tacit admission that their schools / clubs aren't producing. It's less politically toxic to pick up a South African youngster. Or look for a Leinster squad member after the investment has been put in.

But maybe that's exactly what they should be doing until the schools and clubs stop in-fighting and actually start working together and with the branch - fill the academy with the best talent they can find in the country