Bath v Leinster

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suisse
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by suisse »

I'm with Jeezer on this. We're already down two of our most prominent backs, why are moving one of the other ones around? Moving Nacewa away from his favoured position, which probably made him the best 15 in Europe last season, is compounding the loss of BOD and Shaggy, not making it any better. Yes, it allows us to play a Lion and GS winner in Rob Kearney but we are losing more in the long run. I have always been a huge fan of Kearney but he's not the best 15 we have. Play our best players in their best positions and where there is an injruy, our squad is good enough to bear the brunt. Whoever goes to 15, the backline should read (in the absense of BOD and Shaggy) for this away game; Boss (Reddan starts next week), Sexton, Luke, D'arcy, EOM,.....,Isa. Take your pick for the wing. There are some good candidates.
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Viva
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Viva »

Hi guys ! This question may sound weird but I'm quite new in town and I was wondering what is the best pub to watch rugby here in Dublin. Could you recommend me a place?
Thanks.

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johng
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by johng »

I'll wade into this too. You want your best players on the pitch.

I think that Luke, Isa and Rob are our best players. It's only about what numbers you put on their backs after that.

Not that Luke, Ferg/Carr/D Kearney Isa is bad. The fact that we are having a debate means we have a strong squad.

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kendalgerty
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by kendalgerty »

Viva wrote:Hi guys ! This question may sound weird but I'm quite new in town and I was wondering what is the best pub to watch rugby here in Dublin. Could you recommend me a place?
Thanks.
Welcome to Dublin - there are too many to mention!

I would head for Baggott Street and go to either Doheny & Nesbitt's or Toner's there. If you wanted to head a little further out of town, you could head towards Lansdowne Road and go to Slattery's on Bath Avenue, or Kiely's in Donnybrook, which would be appropriate given the kick-off time, as they would do a brunchy-type-spread for you. Enjoy!
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Degz
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Degz »

I presume it's taken as red that Flash will come back in for Ferg?

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jezzer
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by jezzer »

ronk wrote:Luke's favourite position is fullback. You can't always play your best position. McFadden is having the same issue with outside centre. You do what's best for the team.

Some players are more versatile than others, and that means they end up playing somewhere else.

Nacewa is a very good winger, we have 3 fullbacks starting in the back 3, that puts us in a strong position for certain types of tactics. My personal take, and I know a fair few others don't share it, is Kearney at fullback with Isa on the right wing as our most effective strategy.
Big difference between your favourite position and your best position, as Luke should know only too well.

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Flash Gordon
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Flash Gordon »

johng wrote:I'll wade into this too. You want your best players on the pitch.

I think that Luke, Isa and Rob are our best players. It's only about what numbers you put on their backs after that.

Not that Luke, Ferg/Carr/D Kearney Isa is bad. The fact that we are having a debate means we have a strong squad.
I tend to agree on your assessment of our best players - problem is that the reasons Rob and Isa are good overlap! In my opinion Isa is probably the best FB in the NH at the moment - a really special game breaker. However, we can't ignore the Ireland situation - Rob is Ireland's starting FB and pretty much the only option we have at the moment. Given that the provincial structure was designed to support the Ireland team we can't just ignore the needs of the national team.

Either way, its a pretty nice problem to have - arguably the best FB in the NH vs the Lions FB.....

To be honest, whatever the combination Joe goes for, it will be better player for player than Bath.
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Leinster Exile
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Leinster Exile »

I'd like to know folks thoughts on Bath at stand off. Hamiltion is still carrying a few pounds extra. They also have a few injurys and the replacements are pretty poor

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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Mauler »

Leinster Exile wrote:I'd like to know folks thoughts on Bath at stand off. Hamiltion is still carrying a few pounds extra. They also have a few injurys and the replacements are pretty poor
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johng
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by johng »

Leinster Exile wrote:I'd like to know folks thoughts on Bath at stand off. Hamiltion is still carrying a few pounds extra. They also have a few injurys and the replacements are pretty poor
So is Stephen (Mc)Donald(s). Who coincidentally used to play in Hamilton. (No not Scott Hamilton, Hamilton the place :roll: )

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Oldschool
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Oldschool »

jezzer wrote:Our best back three starts with Isa at 15. We lose a lot with him at 14, he's our difference maker, especially with Drico out. Hes also the best last line of defence we've had since Girve in 06/07.

Keeping him at 15 is worth dropping Rob for. Playing Ferg, Dave K, Carr or a fit Shaggy opposite Fitz is worth keeping Isa at 15 for.

Let me put it to you this way. Loads of people (sometimes me incl) were banging on over the years how Drico should slide in to 12 to let Darce play 13. Darce had a great 6N at 13 and Many said that Drico should move to let Darce take that slot permanently. Sure 13 was Dricos best position but it was worth the sacrifice.

It was a bad idea, as has been proven over the years. Moving Isa, who is the nearest thing we have to Drico in his prime on this team, is a bad idea. I don't care if Joe disagrees (and I doubt he does), it's a bad idea.

Just like with Darce at 13 then, Rob is a better 15 than anything else. But someone else is a better 15 just like someone else was a better 13. The only thing keeping a 15 on Robs back is the IRFU. We sacrifice a lot when he's 15 and Isa is 14 and we do it for Team Ireland because there are no good Irish fullbacks at the moment and RK is our best hope of Ireland having one.

If Isa was Irish we wouldn't even be discussing this.
Your analysis is very good, however it has one failing or one message which is bad.
(And I have to say one of EOS' and Dekko's major failings - an inability to move on and try to progress ALL players and not just the anointed few.
(If Isa was Irish we wouldn't even be discussing this.)
It assumes that we are getting the best out of a RB/ISA/ANOTHER back three right now - I and others think this is not yet the case.
Joe is right to experiment. Virtually every player under his tutelage has improved.
Rob, Isa and Joe are entitled to go with this flow.
Now is the time to make these experiments not in three months time.
As Slum has pointed out - Imagine this.......................
Last edited by Oldschool on December 6th, 2011, 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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nelly the elephant
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by nelly the elephant »

Dave Cahill wrote:
cormac wrote: They seem to be mixing up our two wins there in Jan 05 and Jan 06.

For any Bath fans lurking: Jan 05 - fortunate win for Leinster, two tries in the last 10 mins from Holwell and O'Kelly; Jan 06 - BOD led hammering.

theres a certain amount of confusion over the games in Dublin too

Oct 04, Leinster win 30-11 in Lansdowne Road
Oct 05, Bath win 19-22 in our first ever HEC match in the RDS
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Leinster Exile
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Leinster Exile »

johng wrote:
Leinster Exile wrote:I'd like to know folks thoughts on Bath at stand off. Hamiltion is still carrying a few pounds extra. They also have a few injurys and the replacements are pretty poor
So is Stephen (Mc)Donald(s). Who coincidentally used to play in Hamilton. (No not Scott Hamilton, Hamilton the place :roll: )
Sorry sorry :oops: . trying to write a document and ask questions :oops:

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Oldschool
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Oldschool »

jezzer wrote:
ronk wrote:Luke's favourite position is fullback. You can't always play your best position. McFadden is having the same issue with outside centre. You do what's best for the team.

Some players are more versatile than others, and that means they end up playing somewhere else.

Nacewa is a very good winger, we have 3 fullbacks starting in the back 3, that puts us in a strong position for certain types of tactics. My personal take, and I know a fair few others don't share it, is Kearney at fullback with Isa on the right wing as our most effective strategy.
Big difference between your favourite position and your best position, as Luke should know only too well.
A simple question - What was Isa's best position before he joined Leinster or even before Joe joined.
Nobody knew (Especially when he joined - he played a lot at OH and a variety of other positions - he migrated to FB, because RK got injured. Maybe, just maybe he's an even better winger and all he needs is a bit of time to adjust.)
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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nelly the elephant
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by nelly the elephant »

Oldschool wrote:
jezzer wrote:
ronk wrote:Luke's favourite position is fullback. You can't always play your best position. McFadden is having the same issue with outside centre. You do what's best for the team.

Some players are more versatile than others, and that means they end up playing somewhere else.

Nacewa is a very good winger, we have 3 fullbacks starting in the back 3, that puts us in a strong position for certain types of tactics. My personal take, and I know a fair few others don't share it, is Kearney at fullback with Isa on the right wing as our most effective strategy.
Big difference between your favourite position and your best position, as Luke should know only too well.
A simple question - What was Isa's best position before he joined Leinster or even before Joe joined.
Nobody knew (Especially when he joined - he played a lot at OH and a variety of other positions - he migrated to FB, because RK got injured. Maybe, just maybe he's an even better winger and all he needs is a bit of time to adjust.)
I can't imagine he's an EVEN BETTER winger than fullback........certainly hasn't looked it on his occasional appearances there.
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TrapperChamonix
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by TrapperChamonix »

In the absence of Horgan, Kearney is our best restart challenger.
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Oldschool
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Oldschool »

nelly the elephant wrote:
Oldschool wrote:

I can't imagine he's (ISA) an EVEN BETTER winger than fullback........certainly hasn't looked it on his occasional appearances there.
Patience is a virtue, which thankfully Joe has in abundance.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Leinster Lout »

Sarah_10 wrote:Have to say I dont think Fitzgerald should be getting his game this week! I dont think he is good enough, When you look at the likes of McFadden, O Malley , D Kearney and Fionn Carr these are outstanding players at the moment for Leinster and I dont Think Fitzgerald is good enough to be chosen over these.
+1. Luke has improved on his abject start to the season, and isn't making any glaring errors, but I still don't think he's doing enough to merit a start ahead of Ferg, Carr and even Dave K I would say. Carr looks a lot more dangerous and his defence has been fine.

wixfjord
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by wixfjord »

Leinster Lout wrote:
Sarah_10 wrote:Have to say I dont think Fitzgerald should be getting his game this week! I dont think he is good enough, When you look at the likes of McFadden, O Malley , D Kearney and Fionn Carr these are outstanding players at the moment for Leinster and I dont Think Fitzgerald is good enough to be chosen over these.
+1. Luke has improved on his abject start to the season, and isn't making any glaring errors, but I still don't think he's doing enough to merit a start ahead of Ferg, Carr and even Dave K I would say. Carr looks a lot more dangerous and his defence has been fine.
What what what?!

Luke was excellent against Glasgow and one of the only backs to stand out against Mont.
Also played well at fb against Treviso!

I'm a little incredulous about that suggestion actually?!

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bluemagic
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by bluemagic »

wixfjord wrote:
Leinster Lout wrote:
Sarah_10 wrote:Have to say I dont think Fitzgerald should be getting his game this week! I dont think he is good enough, When you look at the likes of McFadden, O Malley , D Kearney and Fionn Carr these are outstanding players at the moment for Leinster and I dont Think Fitzgerald is good enough to be chosen over these.
+1. Luke has improved on his abject start to the season, and isn't making any glaring errors, but I still don't think he's doing enough to merit a start ahead of Ferg, Carr and even Dave K I would say. Carr looks a lot more dangerous and his defence has been fine.
What what what?!

Luke was excellent against Glasgow and one of the only backs to stand out against Mont.
Also played well at fb against Treviso!

I'm a little incredulous about that suggestion actually?!
Im with wixfjord on this, I think Luke has been our best back performer so far this season, looks so dangerous every time he gets the ball, makes the right decisions and not over-running the support lines anymore.

On another note we need to move the ball across the line really well against bath, they have a big heavy front 5 who wont move well. Like Ali we need to keep dancing and not get sucked into a physical match with bath, they should tire before we do and their front 5 wont be able to hit the rucks which should create space and (hopefully) tries!

Saying all that Bath are a good team, the bookies have us to win by 4 and tbh I would bite their hand off
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