Bath v Leinster

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berniemac67
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by berniemac67 »

wixfjord wrote:
Leinster Lout wrote:
Sarah_10 wrote:Have to say I dont think Fitzgerald should be getting his game this week! I dont think he is good enough, When you look at the likes of McFadden, O Malley , D Kearney and Fionn Carr these are outstanding players at the moment for Leinster and I dont Think Fitzgerald is good enough to be chosen over these.
+1. Luke has improved on his abject start to the season, and isn't making any glaring errors, but I still don't think he's doing enough to merit a start ahead of Ferg, Carr and even Dave K I would say. Carr looks a lot more dangerous and his defence has been fine.
What what what?!

Luke was excellent against Glasgow and one of the only backs to stand out against Mont.
Also played well at fb against Treviso!

I'm a little incredulous about that suggestion actually?!
+1
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[Jackass]
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by [Jackass] »

For the craic, at some point during the season, I'd like to see a backline of:

9. Madigan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. O'Malley
14. McFadden
15. Nacewa
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Flash Gordon »

bluemagic wrote: Saying all that Bath are a good team, the bookies have us to win by 4 and tbh I would bite their hand off
Actually, Bath are one of the worst teams in the Premiership - a league that has been really struggling over the last couple of years. You match their players against ours and I honestly think we have superiority 1-15.

You look at the Bath site (and some other's - Ulster for example) - and opposition fans are absolutely terrified of playing Leinster.

Clearly none of this guarantees anything (the same was probably true against Montpellier) and you have to respect Bath's history and tradition but on this season's form, the boys will be very very disappointed if we don't win this match.
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jezzer
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by jezzer »

[Jackass] wrote:For the craic, at some point during the season, I'd like to see a backline of:

9. Madigan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. O'Malley
14. McFadden
15. Nacewa
I'd enjoy watching that backline have a crack. Even more so with Dave Kearney in for McFadden. Not saying it would be our best available choice, but it's be interesting to see how they got on against a team like Ulster or Scarlets.

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Mauler
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Mauler »

jezzer wrote:
[Jackass] wrote:For the craic, at some point during the season, I'd like to see a backline of:

9. Madigan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. O'Malley
14. McFadden
15. Nacewa
I'd enjoy watching that backline have a crack. Even more so with Dave Kearney in for McFadden. Not saying it would be our best available choice, but it's be interesting to see how they got on against a team like Ulster or Scarlets.
I think he would make a sensational Scrumie, his pass is so 'wristie', almost Stringer like, but he has a break too. Might be an option if Reddan & Boss are away with Ireland during the 6N and Berquist is fit and back playing 10.
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tackle-bag
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by tackle-bag »

I agree that Madigan deserves a run at 9 at some point. The only real areas in which he is not up to international standard are tackling and goal-kicking. He would have to do very little of either if he played at scrum-half.

That being said, he also deserves the opportunity to fully prove himself at out-half. His peformances over the past month at 10 have been truly excellent.
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CiaranIrl
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by CiaranIrl »

Heading over for this. Can't wait. Any bar recommendations?
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Leinsterman
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Leinsterman »

CiaranIrl wrote:Heading over for this. Can't wait. Any bar recommendations?

The Boater, Saracens Head & Poulteney Arms are three good ones.
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suisse
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by suisse »

[Jackass] wrote:For the craic, at some point during the season, I'd like to see a backline of:

9. Madigan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. O'Malley
14. McFadden
15. Nacewa
Despite all the evidence that has gone before us that Luke Fitzgerald is not an IC, you still want to give him another shot? Fitzgerald is a top class winger (even if the Munster fans disagree) but he doesn't have the basics to play at 12. His passing is not strong enough, and he can't seem to hold his depth long enough, especially in a congested area, meaning he is running in front of players (obstruction, penalty) or accepting forward passes because he has run behind the man outside him who doesn the natural thing and off-loads the ball. Personally, I always felt Lukey looks rather clueless in the IC position.

If Ian Madigan was French, they would have tried him out by now at 9. And probably the Saffers too, look at Hougaard. It's a pity Berquist is still injured because Madigan could have had a few runs at 9 in the B&I Cup by now. This is where rugby needs the AAA or Minor teams.

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hugonaut
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by hugonaut »

suisse wrote:
[Jackass] wrote:For the craic, at some point during the season, I'd like to see a backline of:

9. Madigan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. O'Malley
14. McFadden
15. Nacewa
Despite all the evidence that has gone before us that Luke Fitzgerald is not an IC, you still want to give him another shot? Fitzgerald is a top class winger (even if the Munster fans disagree) but he doesn't have the basics to play at 12. His passing is not strong enough, and he can't seem to hold his depth long enough, especially in a congested area, meaning he is running in front of players (obstruction, penalty) or accepting forward passes because he has run behind the man outside him who doesn the natural thing and off-loads the ball. Personally, I always felt Lukey looks rather clueless in the IC position.

If Ian Madigan was French, they would have tried him out by now at 9. And probably the Saffers too, look at Hougaard. It's a pity Berquist is still injured because Madigan could have had a few runs at 9 in the B&I Cup by now. This is where rugby needs the AAA or Minor teams.
We have needed Madigan at out half throughout this season, with McKinley's retirement and Berquist's injury. He's beginning to look like a player who could play at international level within the next couple of years: I'd rate him as the third best out half in Ireland at the moment, behind Sexton and ROG. Massive work needed on his tactical kicking game, which is leagues behind either of the other two, but boy the lad can pass a ball!

Well worth giving him some coaching at No9 when Berquist returns though – what's the harm? It'll add another string to his bow, and it'd be good to see if he's got the same aptitude for the game at that position as he has shown from No10. He's not going to go from being a very exciting out half to one stricken by a crisis of confidence just because he learns to see the game from another perspective.

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hugonaut
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by hugonaut »

suisse wrote: Despite all the evidence that has gone before us that Luke Fitzgerald is not an IC, you still want to give him another shot? Fitzgerald is a top class winger (even if the Munster fans disagree) but he doesn't have the basics to play at 12. His passing is not strong enough, and he can't seem to hold his depth long enough, especially in a congested area, meaning he is running in front of players (obstruction, penalty) or accepting forward passes because he has run behind the man outside him who doesn the natural thing and off-loads the ball. Personally, I always felt Lukey looks rather clueless in the IC position.
Fitzgerald has done pretty well at IC this year. Keeping depth is a bigger issue on the wing than it is in the middle of the park. I don't think it's at all fair to say that he has looked clueless as an IC.

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[Jackass]
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by [Jackass] »

suisse wrote:
[Jackass] wrote:For the craic, at some point during the season, I'd like to see a backline of:

9. Madigan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. Fitzgerald
13. O'Malley
14. McFadden
15. Nacewa
Despite all the evidence that has gone before us that Luke Fitzgerald is not an IC, you still want to give him another shot? Fitzgerald is a top class winger (even if the Munster fans disagree) but he doesn't have the basics to play at 12. His passing is not strong enough, and he can't seem to hold his depth long enough, especially in a congested area, meaning he is running in front of players (obstruction, penalty) or accepting forward passes because he has run behind the man outside him who doesn the natural thing and off-loads the ball. Personally, I always felt Lukey looks rather clueless in the IC position.

If Ian Madigan was French, they would have tried him out by now at 9. And probably the Saffers too, look at Hougaard. It's a pity Berquist is still injured because Madigan could have had a few runs at 9 in the B&I Cup by now. This is where rugby needs the AAA or Minor teams.
I think Fitzgerald played his best rugby in over a year at inside centre and recovered his form in that slot. He was superb.

As for Madigan, I think he is, and will develop into a quality 10, and it will be great if we can developed a Reddan / Boss relationship with Madigan / Sexton, if they can draw parity in ability in a couple of seasons.

The 9 experiment would be nice, especially if it worked, but I'm happy to develop him as just a 10 for now, and hope Luke McGrath fits the billing in the 9 jersey. Cooney hasn't done half bad either imo.

Probably going a bit off topic though.

Argh, can't wait for this game. Very optimistic (but not cocky or arrogant!) just think we'll do a good job. If we do, I'll feel great about the rest of this group.
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suisse
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by suisse »

hugonaut wrote:
suisse wrote: Despite all the evidence that has gone before us that Luke Fitzgerald is not an IC, you still want to give him another shot? Fitzgerald is a top class winger (even if the Munster fans disagree) but he doesn't have the basics to play at 12. His passing is not strong enough, and he can't seem to hold his depth long enough, especially in a congested area, meaning he is running in front of players (obstruction, penalty) or accepting forward passes because he has run behind the man outside him who doesn the natural thing and off-loads the ball. Personally, I always felt Lukey looks rather clueless in the IC position.
Fitzgerald has done pretty well at IC this year. Keeping depth is a bigger issue on the wing than it is in the middle of the park. I don't think it's at all fair to say that he has looked clueless as an IC.
Why do you think depth is a bigger issue on the wing than centre? Look at the way EOM, especially against Glasgow, worked off the shoulder of D'arcy - or whoever is inside him - to keep defenses guessing. It was almost Ashton like in the 6N, and makes EOM appear like a good RL player that day. I'm not sure Fitz has the reading of the game at IC well enough to hold his line for that split second more, allowing the inside or outside man to suck in the defenders and then release him. Every-time I see him, he over-runs the man next to him too much. If you can't hold your depth in the middle of the park, you run the risk of conceding obstruction penalties all afternoon.

I'd leave him on the wing for now.

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hugonaut
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by hugonaut »

suisse wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
suisse wrote: Despite all the evidence that has gone before us that Luke Fitzgerald is not an IC, you still want to give him another shot? Fitzgerald is a top class winger (even if the Munster fans disagree) but he doesn't have the basics to play at 12. His passing is not strong enough, and he can't seem to hold his depth long enough, especially in a congested area, meaning he is running in front of players (obstruction, penalty) or accepting forward passes because he has run behind the man outside him who doesn the natural thing and off-loads the ball. Personally, I always felt Lukey looks rather clueless in the IC position.
Fitzgerald has done pretty well at IC this year. Keeping depth is a bigger issue on the wing than it is in the middle of the park. I don't think it's at all fair to say that he has looked clueless as an IC.
Why do you think depth is a bigger issue on the wing than centre? Look at the way EOM, especially against Glasgow, worked off the shoulder of D'arcy - or whoever is inside him - to keep defenses guessing. It was almost Ashton like in the 6N, and makes EOM appear like a good RL player that day. I'm not sure Fitz has the reading of the game at IC well enough to hold his line for that split second more, allowing the inside or outside man to suck in the defenders and then release him. Every-time I see him, he over-runs the man next to him too much. If you can't hold your depth in the middle of the park, you run the risk of conceding obstruction penalties all afternoon.

I'd leave him on the wing for now.
Depth discipline is a bigger issue on the wing because players are generally running close to flat-out in wider positions: there's less margin for error. Also, the way Leinster play [and played last season] Fitzgerald would quite frequently have got the ball in space in wide channels and been in with a try-scoring opportunity only for him to have over-run the ball entirely or to have come up too flat and have to slow to take a pass.

If you over-run a pass in a congested midfield, you're hardly likely to have cost your side a try – the ball will likely just slow you down, you get tackled and there'll be a ruck. If you over-run a try-scoring pass out wide, you cost the team five or seven points, which happened to him several times last year on the wing. His timing was brutal and he has lost a bit of out-and-out pace since the knee injury.

The two best breaks I van remember him making in the last year were the try against Ulster in the ML SF and the break down the middle against France in the World Cup warm-up match at Lansdowne: two line breaks down the middle of the pitch. I can't recall a good outside break in the last year, to be honest.

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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by fourthirtythree »

Luke looks less and less like a winger as his career develops. His ability in traffic and his ability to bring others into the game have only improved. When he was first thrown into IC at international level he was too callow defensively and not physically as strong as he became. I really don't see him being a top level international winger, he has it all at centre though.

As Hugo said he doesn't make outside breaks any more but his balance and timing are absolutely sublime. This overrunning pass thing got talked up a lot and fed back into itself. Watch him play right now without the chatter in your head.
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jezzer
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by jezzer »

Leinsterman wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:Heading over for this. Can't wait. Any bar recommendations?

The Boater, Saracens Head & Poulteney Arms are three good ones.
Poulteney Arms is a must.

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jezzer
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by jezzer »

hugonaut wrote:The two best breaks I van remember him making in the last year were the try against Ulster in the ML SF and the break down the middle against France in the World Cup warm-up match at Lansdowne: two line breaks down the middle of the pitch. I can't recall a good outside break in the last year, to be honest.
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suisse
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by suisse »

Perhaps I have a very poor memory, but I can't recall an obvious occasion recently when a player failing to hold his depth (with his team in possession) made an error (or someone did) that directly led to a try (now, there were probably like 5 million, I just have no memory) on the wing. Similarly, I can't think of two many occasions when a player in the midfield lost possession......etc but I know in my head I can scratch for a few. You left out that over-runnign in midfield, which I presume sees roughly 50% more possession than the wings, conceded possession and, in some cases, leads to a direct penalty.

I understand what you and 443 are saying, but Luke's lack of breaks out wide must be a confidence thing. The days when he was tucking inside Paul Warwick off that left foot was the form which brought him a Lions squad and cap.

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hugonaut
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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by hugonaut »

suisse wrote:Perhaps I have a very poor memory, but I can't recall an obvious occasion recently when a player failing to hold his depth (with his team in possession) made an error (or someone did) that directly led to a try (now, there were probably like 5 million, I just have no memory) on the wing. Similarly, I can't think of two many occasions when a player in the midfield lost possession......etc but I know in my head I can scratch for a few. You left out that over-runnign in midfield, which I presume sees roughly 50% more possession than the wings, conceded possession and, in some cases, leads to a direct penalty.

I understand what you and 443 are saying, but Luke's lack of breaks out wide must be a confidence thing. The days when he was tucking inside Paul Warwick off that left foot was the form which brought him a Lions squad and cap.
Sorry, I phrased my sentence badly - it's not that over-running the ball on the wing concedes a try, it's that it messes up a potential try-scoring opportunity.

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Re: Bath v Leinster

Post by Flash Gordon »

jezzer wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:Heading over for this. Can't wait. Any bar recommendations?

The Boater, Saracens Head & Poulteney Arms are three good ones.
Poulteney Arms is a must.
Till they run out of beer.....
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us

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