Second row worries

[cwebber82]

Does anybody think it's too early to write off Steven Sykes? I saw play from the start for the first time last friday, and to be honest, he was dreadful. On the flip side Stan Wright didn't set the world on fire at first but came good in the end to become a vital part of the team.

The second row is definitely the weak part of the team. If anything happens to Leo it would be a disaster. Browne and Toner are decent to good players but no more than that. Just can't believe Hines was let go and Sykes was signed as his replacement. Smells like IRFU meddling.

Any opinions on Nathan White? Try apart last friday, he looks the part. Always think a prop's bread and butter is his scrumaging and not sure how good he is in that department but in the loose he looks far better than Ross. No harm for Ross though to have some competition.

Going out on a limb here but Nathan White is a better scrumager than Clint Newland...

[Flash Gordon]

Does anybody think it's too early to write off Steven Sykes? I saw play from the start for the first time last friday, and to be honest, he was dreadful. On the flip side Stan Wright didn't set the world on fire at first but came good in the end to become a vital part of the team.

The second row is definitely the weak part of the team. If anything happens to Leo it would be a disaster. Browne and Toner are decent to good players but no more than that. Just can't believe Hines was let go and Sykes was signed as his replacement. Smells like IRFU meddling.

Any opinions on Nathan White? Try apart last friday, he looks the part. Always think a prop's bread and butter is his scrumaging and not sure how good he is in that department but in the loose he looks far better than Ross. No harm for Ross though to have some competition.

Going out on a limb here but Nathan White is a better scrumager than Clint Newland...

I remember David Holwell's debut. He had an absolute shocker.

I thought he did reasonably ok last week but he is an excellent handler of the ball and I guess that will come through with time. I'd also say he looked like he was challenging the elastic on the belly section of his armourfit shirt....and slowed towards the end of the game. Looked a bit out of shape to me - as was Stan when he arrived.

[TerenureJim]

Going out on a limb here but Nathan White is a better scrumager than Clint Newland...

Who the hell is Clint Newland?

[slum]

Does anybody think it's too early to write off Steven Sykes? I saw play from the start for the first time last friday, and to be honest, he was dreadful. On the flip side Stan Wright didn't set the world on fire at first but came good in the end to become a vital part of the team.

The second row is definitely the weak part of the team. If anything happens to Leo it would be a disaster. Browne and Toner are decent to good players but no more than that. Just can't believe Hines was let go and Sykes was signed as his replacement. Smells like IRFU meddling.

Any opinions on Nathan White? Try apart last friday, he looks the part. Always think a prop's bread and butter is his scrumaging and not sure how good he is in that department but in the loose he looks far better than Ross. No harm for Ross though to have some competition.

Going out on a limb here but Nathan White is a better scrumager than Clint Newland...

your olfactory system is bang on there cwebber2. Leinster wanted him to stay, Hines wanted to stay. But the geniuses in the IRFU Player Advisory Group blocked the extension.

I think Sykes will come good if he gets some consecutive games during the 6N

[TerenureJim]

your olfactory system is bang on there cwebber2. Leinster wanted him to stay, Hines wanted to stay. But the geniuses in the IRFU Player Advisory Group blocked the extension.

I think Sykes will come good if he gets some consecutive games during the 6N

I thought Sykes got the nod and Hines let go as Sykes could be worked on as a project player like with Strauss?

[ronk]

Money. Hines was an expensive player.

Maybe he was worth it, but it was harder to justify for an ageing player when we had succession concerns in the row which we needed to show we were addressing.

[Degz]

Hines wanted two years, he was offered one.

This was the impression I got anyway.

[Dave Cahill]

Hines wanted two years, he was offered one.

This was the impression I got anyway.

Me too. Also, he hadn't retired from International rugby at that stage, so over those two years Leinster would have been without him for the RWC, 6N, AIs next year, and 6N next year, which was a lot of rugby to be missed by guy thats on your own books (as it were).

Pity though, he is a top class player, and was absolutely brilliant for us.

[TerenureJim]

Hines wanted two years, he was offered one.

This was the impression I got anyway.

Me too. Also, he hadn't retired from International rugby at that stage, so over those two years Leinster would have been without him for the RWC, 6N, AIs next year, and 6N next year, which was a lot of rugby to be missed by guy thats on your own books (as it were).

Pity though, he is a top class player, and was absolutely brilliant for us.

Seemed like a decent bloke as well. Ran into him in O'Briens on Leeson St a couple of times. That's a small pub and the man is feckin huge, I did not want to knock his pint.

[Degz]

Hines wanted two years, he was offered one.

This was the impression I got anyway.

Me too. Also, he hadn't retired from International rugby at that stage, so over those two years Leinster would have been without him for the RWC, 6N, AIs next year, and 6N next year, which was a lot of rugby to be missed by guy thats on your own books (as it were).

Pity though, he is a top class player, and was absolutely brilliant for us.

Top class hands, with a fair dollop of the proverbial "dog" about him. Sorely missed.

[cormac]

Thought it was a case that the IRFU was only sanctioning 1-year deals to NIQ's over 30?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Someone on here (Darce?) was praising Hines' ability to glide through a maul and get his mitts on the ball and said he'd be a great man to have on a pint run, thought that was an excellent description! Quality player, didn't understand the signing at the time but was delighted to be proved wrong, he was brilliant for us.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think second row will cost us at the business end of the HC. I'm a big fan of Leo and I rate Toner as well but even if Sykes comes good I think we'll struggle there in the really big HC games.

[TerenureJim]

I think we'll struggle there in the really big HC games.

I might have agreed with you before McLoughlin's masterclass in the lineout V's Leicester in the Q/F. I have faith in plans and tactics put down on a game by game basis on how to deal with the SWOT.

[slum]

Someone on here (Darce?) was praising Hines' ability to glide through a maul and get his mitts on the ball and said he'd be a great man to have on a pint run, thought that was an excellent description! Quality player, didn't understand the signing at the time but was delighted to be proved wrong, he was brilliant for us.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think second row will cost us at the business end of the HC. I'm a big fan of Leo and I rate Toner as well but even if Sykes comes good I think we'll struggle there in the really big HC games.

Yeah, I remember a Munster fan in work slagging off Hines when we signed him an boasting about their world class signing in the centre.

[simonokeeffe]

Yeah Hines only got offered 1 yr plus Sykes was signed as a special project. His restarts were bad but his general work was very good. If he stays injury free allowing his fitness to improve he could come good. McLaughlin just does not have the bulk to be anything more than emergency cover for the 2nd row, that whole notion only started with the Irish management wanting a utility forward for the world cup, am surprised it continued

[artaneboy]

Yeah Hines only got offered 1 yr plus Sykes was signed as a special project. His restarts were bad but his general work was very good. If he stays injury free allowing his fitness to improve he could come good. McLaughlin just does not have the bulk to be anything more than emergency cover for the 2nd row, that whole notion only started with the Irish management wanting a utility forward for the world cup, am surprised it continued

Yes, it was a big mistake to let Hines go and siad so ad nauseum; but he's not here now. So let's get on with it! And I like the bit I've seen of Sykes. We need him to get the matches over the next month, so that come mid-January we will hopefully have him motoring at his best. I think Leo will get a couple of sarts over the 6Ns this year and we may get to see Sykes and Toner together in couple of consecutive games that matter- if you know what I mean. That would be interesting - looking into our - and possibly Ireland's second-row future.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Leo will get starts for Ireland? Based on....?

[Leinster Zulu]

Players need time to adjust, people forget Strauss took a good while to get up to standard.

I'd start Sykes this weekend as Toner hasn't been very good his last few outings. I think we should try out the Leo/Sykes combination, even if it would be interesting to see Toner up against Caldwell.

[Dave Cahill]

Leo will get starts for Ireland? Based on....?

He's been practicing his Cork accent really hard

[artaneboy]

Leo will get starts for Ireland? Based on....?

He's been practicing his Cork accent really hard

Based on... what else here- speculation!

But seriously then... Leo wasn't far off selection in the first 15 during the RWC and despite D Ryan's rise, I think there's not much there between them. Donners seems to have a fight on his hands to get ahead of Ryan in Munster- so he's probably off the slate now. Leo is playing well and with a bit of reasonable luck will have featured and led a Leinster team to a dominant position in their HEC group and probably still in the top 3 of the Pro-12. Don't wish him or them ill- but I don't see Munster providing Ryan with that platform. So by selection time Leo should be in a good place. And when Kidney starts to consider you worthy of selection he tends to go with you. But of course I could be wrong and maybe Deccie will just discover Leo's long-lost Cork granny!