Change to NIQs

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colster
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Change to NIQs

Post by colster »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_u ... 289724.stm

Seems like a good idea but it'll be difficult to manage.
Last edited by colster on December 21st, 2011, 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Made Of Ale
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Re: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/16289724.stm

Post by Made Of Ale »

Might be a bit of a fight for the prop allocations....

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Mickado
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by Mickado »

By the 2013/14 both Strauss and Sykes will be Irish qualified. If Hagan can step up and take White’s position as backup TH, McGrath can take the backup LH from Hank, then given that Madigan is already an able deputy to Sexton that would just leave Isa as our NIQ player. We’d have to offer him a big contract before these rules come into play but we could survive with that.
Can I raise a practical question at this point? Are we gonna do "Stonehenge" tomorrow?

Blue Man
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by Blue Man »

Suits us. Lots of young Irish talent coming through and relatively few NIQ first liners.
Isa is the only back and by next year Van Der Merwe will be the only forward and he's not even a first XV choice.
White is on the bench these days but Hagan can slot in there no probs. Sykes is MIA. Madigan is better than Berquist.

Problem may lie in the future if we need a top class lock to replace Leo or a big centre.

As it stands we are in a much stronger position than the other two listed provinces.

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mtleinster
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Re: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/16289724.stm

Post by mtleinster »

Made Of Ale wrote:Might be a bit of a fight for the prop allocations....

Completely unfair on the proviences. Does a player have to play a certain number of games in that position to be considered that positions. Strauss was considered a hooker / flanker when he arrived. I think ISA was billed as a 12 who could play 10 when he arrived?

All this will mean is we will start importing 19 year olds from south africa to play prop instead of waiting until they are 25.

Or will we bring in second rows who can play 1st centre
Les chances que Sexton vienne en France sont infimes

Edna Kenny
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by Edna Kenny »

From reading the statement I take it that VDM, White and Berquist would not be replaced by NIQ players or have their contracts renewed. I don't have an issue with this if there is an Irish player of equal quality to replace them. The worry would be that we let some of these key players go and a hole is left whilst waiting for someone to get up to speed. For example I would not be happy having Hagan as backup to Mike Ross just yet, Nathan White is necessary in my opinion. If Hagan can improve to White's level then I would be happy for Hagan to take over.

I wonder if this would have a knock on effect where the quality of NIQ players would drop as they might not want to come if it was only a short contract? For example would someone like Isa have come to Leinster if he was only going to get 2 years? NIQ backs are probably in an easier position as they can usually play different positions.

The principle is right but I just hope it doesn't affect the provinces too much. Some of the NIQ's have been hugely beneficial to the provinces, helping them win tournaments which has a knock on effect to the Irish team.

Checkers
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Re: Change to NIQs a xenophobia policy

Post by Checkers »

This ideology could potentially harm the Irish game more than they will achieve with such a xenophobic policy.

The IRFU should stop blaming the foreigners and look at their own coach selection policies and the 6N competition.

After his first year and the grand slam, Kidney has underachieved. Ireland has no style of play, no grand plan, no "Ireland way" of how the Irish game should be played. Leinster are getting places with its "Leinster way" with a definitive style and heads up thinking rugby, the patterns aren't as obvious as they use a number of different options rather than just the one play!!!

The 6N competition needs to be brought up to the 21st century. The competition is potentially over after one loss, it doesn't provide entertainment for this very reason!!!

Where would we be without Isa, Hines, Felipe, and Rocky. Standout foreigners that have added to Leinster. Muster could say likewise with Botha, Williams, Howlett, Payne, and any number of their foreign centers!!! Without these foreign players Ireland wouldn't have developed the provincial players that eventually get picked to represent their country, if the coach get his selection right!!

A dumb policy not fully thought through..

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slum
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by slum »

And what happens when the Ireland players are called up?

Fact is Munster will get first dibs across the board and ulster will more or less ignore the rules as they do now.

This is a ridiculous idea.
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bluemad
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by bluemad »

This new rule will have a serious negative affect on the three provinces. When Leo retires what are we going to do? I know we have Toner who admittedly has improved a lot in the past year but who else do we have- Damien Browne or Steven Sykes? I would not be confident of a Toner, Browne/Sykes combo and challenging for the HC.
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Leinsterman
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by Leinsterman »

bluemad wrote:This new rule will have a serious negative affect on the three provinces. When Leo retires what are we going to do? I know we have Toner who admittedly has improved a lot in the past year but who else do we have- Damien Browne or Steven Sykes? I would not be confident of a Toner, Browne/Sykes combo and challenging for the HC.

We'll see more players moving between provinces.
E.G. we have loads of outside backs and Munster have loads of second rows.
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by limecat »

Leinsterman wrote:
bluemad wrote:This new rule will have a serious negative affect on the three provinces. When Leo retires what are we going to do? I know we have Toner who admittedly has improved a lot in the past year but who else do we have- Damien Browne or Steven Sykes? I would not be confident of a Toner, Browne/Sykes combo and challenging for the HC.

We'll see more players moving between provinces.
E.G. we have loads of outside backs and Munster have loads of second rows.
I was thinking that myself. If Munster want to sign an NIE outside back or us a second row, there's more likely to be 'bartering' between the provinces, resulting in more internal movement of players. Whether or not the players themselves want it is a completely different matter.

My main worry would be that players like Howlett and Isa would be less likely to sign if they could only get two years here and then have to move on.
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ceemec
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by ceemec »

slum wrote:And what happens when the Ireland players are called up?

Fact is Munster will get first dibs across the board and ulster will more or less ignore the rules as they do now.

This is a ridiculous idea.
Munster won't. For instance, Afoa is already signed on for 2013/14 so Munster can forget about Botha renewing his contract when it ends at the end of next season. They better get planning now for an IQ replacement. Ulster will have to fall into line just like everyone else.

We'll see a lot of movement between the provinces. Ulster need a top class back row. Leinster have lots so Dom Ryan to head up there. Ian Nagle to Leinster. Dave Kearney to Munster. It won't have nearly the impact that people think it might outside of the front row. The provinces all happen to be strong in different areas. The only contentious issue will be at prop and lock. I think Munster will get the loosehead slot, Ulster the tighthead and Leinster/Ulster a lock with Ian Nagle moving to one. Pienaar will stay at Ulster. Beyond that, I don't think there's any issue. Nacewa is signed up until 2014 so he's safe too.

I reckon it's going to be very interesting to be honest and it could be a great move if the provinces and players embrace it.

Scrum 5
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by Scrum 5 »

Good discussion on this on Newstalk now.

Ruckedtobits
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by Ruckedtobits »

The word from out west is that this was foisted on the Provinces without discussion and with some contention. IMO it may not have been examined for unintended consequnces and needs more detailed debate. Provinces are the key development ground for international players. Murray, Healy, Earls and Fitzgerald are absolute proof that international ability will prosper with high-quality exposure at Club level (was the prospect of same, the reason that Tommie Bowe headed to Ospreys?). Game time is one element of the equation, but not the only one.

Ultimately if this decision causes the Provinces to be weakened to a point of being non-competitive in HEC, top I-Q players won't hang around but will go to French or English Clubs where they can remain available for Ireland and compete for the top Club Competitions.

This announcement, coupled with impact of National Player availablity restrictions also run the risk that top-class coaches might not want to coach Irish Provinces. Rumoured slot coming up north and maybe down south in next 2 years. Both need the best available and if they get them the supply of international-quality players will continue from Academies.

This decision is a gamble by IRFU and one that they don't need to take at this time. Just get the performance against France sorted to Munster / Leinster standard and we could win a GS or at least a Championship every other Season for the next 4 Seasons. If this experiment backfires on Provinces, it could cause serious damage in medium-term.

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enby
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by enby »

There is no way that this ruling would last half an hour before the European Court of Justice if an EU citizen, like a Welsh or French player, were to challenge it as it clearly restricts the right of such individuals to work here and infringes the free movement of labour within the EU. Is there anyone in the IRFU with a clue??

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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by enby »

Double post

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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by enby »

double post
Last edited by enby on December 22nd, 2011, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

enby
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by enby »

Sorry about the multiple posts, I thought my computer was acting up

berniemac67
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by berniemac67 »

this is a poorly thought out solution to a nonexistent problem.

further proof that the irfu are morons.

and i thought the welsh were the idiots with their salary cap!!
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Re: Change to NIQs

Post by tolltroll »

Surely its counterintuitive to limit a back 3 player, for example, to 1 specific position. If a NIE player were signed as say a fullback, and wasn't allowed to play wing, then he would completely seal off that position for any player he was supposed to be "mentoring", whereas if he were allowed to play across the back 3, he would allow his ultimate predecessor to play more often, e.g. isa and rob k. this whole thing stinks and is totally unecessary, how many leinster players were irish qualified at the w/e? 13? also this whole tighthead thing will sort itself out in time by itself. it was only a few years ago everyone was freaking if rog got injured what would we do, and before that to an extent stringer. it works itself out, i would much rather see a better prop development scheme so that irish props get in on merit rather than cos the irfu bureaucracy want to fix a short term problem with a long term quasi solution that will possibly do more harm than good.
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