Change to NIQs

[ronk]

The funny thing about the new rule is that we would have been able to keep Hines.

[fourthirtythree]

The funny thing about the new rule is that we would have been able to keep Hines.

Do you think? I think the funny thing about the new rule is that we would never have signed him in the first place. That is the legal arse covering Browne and co. engaged in.. Hines could sue, Howlett can't.

[simonokeeffe]

Hopefully the plan will be watered down so ok 4 +1 NIQs, limits on positions but instead of eg a player can only be an 11 or 14 the limit is 3 back three players, two centres, 2 locks, 3 backrow (keep each prop and halfback as 1 specialist postion), it would also stymie not allowing players to resign.
IRFU have backed down before over Connacht, ticket prices etc. Hopefully the logic of the likes of Howlett, Contepomi, Nacewa etc being so good/influential they made the union money (through HEC success) will dawn on them.
One possible plus side whether plan is changed or not is we might have more UK based underage players (maybe SH) declaring for Ireland if they think there's more opportunities here, might unearth a Nathan Hines of our own
Other possible plus side whether plan is changed or not is Irish/provincial rugby might benefit from more late bloomers (in career terms) like Mike Ross, James Coughlan, Leo Auvaa, Cillian Willis, John Hayes

It might lead to Connacht being raided even more, but what will keep Connacht going is pride (Connacht born players) and loyalty; McCarthy and Muldoon for example have both said no to Leinster before, Swift could have definitely moved on before, Naopou came back etc. They have developed a very good academy system and these guys want to play and play locally, dont forget people sometimes have family and community ties. If Leinster keep winning the Heineken cup then these guys will get more exposure to top flight rugby than playing in Leinster's B & I team. Don't forget the big 4 who left Connacht this year were 3 Dubs and a Limerick man so more likely to be likes of O'Donoghue etc leaving after a couple of years

Are people emailing the union about this, action speaking loader than words etc? Know chief execs will be on this but if OLSC and Ulster & Munster equivalents get 20k emails into the union (a template email easy to do up) it might have an impact

info@irishrugby.ie

[cormac]

Good to see that the provincial coaches have spoken out about this and even GT recognises it's a terrible idea.

[Hippo]

Thornley today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 23011.html

[Dexter]

Thornley today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 23011.html

Good piece actually, IMO.

[Big-alster]

It needs scrapped. I do agree that where possibly an Irish qualified player should be fit to replace an NIQ player, but if you get players like Nacewa or Pienaar wanting to stay and both parties come to an agreement then they should be allowed too, it would make me sick if someone like Ruan Pienaar got forced out of Ulster by this IRFU scheme. The IRFU need a kick up the backside for producing this garbage and I hope they act accordingly.

[Hippo]

Schmidt and McLaughlin have something to say as well:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 23000.html

[ronk]

The funny thing about the new rule is that we would have been able to keep Hines.

Do you think? I think the funny thing about the new rule is that we would never have signed him in the first place. That is the legal arse covering Browne and co. engaged in.. Hines could sue, Howlett can't.

I think so. 15 NIQ slots, one in each position, Munster don't want a lock, Ulster have one. There'd be an NIQ slot at lock available and to try and balance holes opened elsewhere we'd want to sign World Class in other areas to compensate.

What'd really be funny though is the situation 3/4 years down the line. Ulster and Leinster would have had to give up our locks, so would Munster have to sign 2 NIQ locks? Even if it were only one, they wouldn't be happy. I'm sure it wouldn't benefit the Irish team to have that situation, I'm sure it wouldn't benefit the Irish team to have the rules pressure Munster to sign a scrumhalf, or have us sign a backrow.

Out of the first choice 9 hookers in the 3 provinces not a single one is NIQ (Strauss not counting for the purposes of this rule). But if the rules are enforced, someone should sign a top class international hooker. We need at least 3 hookers for international purposes, even with everyone fit. Why sign one if teams are happy to manage without?

One thing I really don't like is the contract thing, as explained. If it's just a case that they're not threatening contracts already signed then that's normal. But if they're saying that you can sign a NIQ in one position for just one contract then there are some serious issues. There are plenty of occasions where players and provinces might prefer to sign shorter contracts and then extend. Even star players who might be willing to come might balk at rules that don't give them any option of staying longer if they settle well. Might as well take the big money in France.

It will be reflected in the need to pay a premium for NIQ players and being stuck with more duds.

[Flakey 16]

It appears there was little or in fact no consultation with the provinces through the coaches, I hate when the IRFU start tinkering with the system, but this change has the potential to kill the golden goose, it can't be let to come to pass in its current form, as Schmidt said in todays papers it has been delivered as a fait au compli, it will not improve the national team and it certainly will have a negative effect on the provinces .... stupid move ..... really stupid.

[Scott]

Joe Schmidt gives his take
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 23000.html

[rooster]

It will be reflected in the need to pay a premium for NIQ players and being stuck with more duds.

Just think Munster might have to buy back Buckley

[heno]

This is my interpretation of this. I'm far from certain, and am open to correction.

the new rule refers to NIE - non-Irish eligible players. Which means players capped by another country.
And is not talking about a foreign player who has never been capped, and so can always move here and try for IQ through residency.

So for example here in leinster we have NIE - Heinke and Nacewa
and we have NIQ (but still eligible for Ireland if they stay long enough) - Strauss, Sykes, White, Berquist
And one foreign but IQ - Auva'a

So for example, if Ulster have the NIE tight head (Afoa), then we are free to re sign White as he is NIQ but not NIE.

[slum]

You're right that it wasn't made initially clear, but they later clarified on twitter that project players (ie could be eligible in the future) are classed as NIE.


https://twitter.com/irfurugby/status/149836541718573056

[heno]

You're right that it wasn't made initially clear, but they later clarified on twitter that project players (ie could be eligible in the future) are classed as NIE.

https://twitter.com/irfurugby/status/149836541718573056

That really only says that the future possible irish players are included in the limit of 5 foreign players (5 being the future limit, 6 being the current)
it doesnt necessarily say they are included in the national set of 15 position specific contracts, and cant be renewed.

Maybe im just grasping at straws.

[simonokeeffe]

They probably count as NIQs until they actually qualify for Ireland, which could be a nuisance or require pleading exceptions as most of these guys arrive after our season starts following completion of NPC and Currie Cup

Can the provinces renew NIQ contracts that expire this summer or next? If yes then come 2013/4 the big 3 provinces have to play only 1 NIQ per position but there could be several across any position and the horsetrading will start early

And can we or can we not resign Isa if we change his designated position? Am reading conflicting reports on that

[Hippo]

And now Wigglesworth responds to the coaches' criticisms:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 50504.html

It appears that there may be some 'flexibility' in situations where there is an injury crisis. However, the discretionary nature of only allowing the signing of 1 NIQ per position and how that will be decided is going to lead to an almighty mess. The entire policy is predicated on the idea that we will magically produce indigenous players of sufficient quality, and if we don't then that's just tough on the provinces.

Unlike every other participant in the HEC, Irish teams will be severely restricted in their recruitment of quality players, and will be hoping to win the tournament based almost exclusively on a comparatively small playing population. Good times!

[Hippo]

And can we or can we not resign Isa if we change his designated position? Am reading conflicting reports on that

According to the 'Four Guiding Principles', "a province will not be permitted to renew that NIE player contract". That seems fairly clear.

[ceemec]

According to the 'Four Guiding Principles', "a province will not be permitted to renew that NIE player contract". That seems fairly clear.

On Off The Ball last week, it was clarified that a player could be re-signed in a different position.

[Cianostays]

At present, both Munster and Ulster have international tightheads, BJ Botha and John Afoa, wearing their number three jersey. Neither player will be offered a new contract. Nor will Isa Nacewa in Leinster.

Well that's the unbelievably depressing nail in that coffin

2 questions I'd have for the IRFU:

A. What world class player is going to come to either of the 3 provinces, knowing that if there family settle well here they can't stay?

B. What world class coaches are we going to be able to convince to come here with such restrictions in place? I'd doubt Joe would have come to Leinster had he known such restrictions were going to be placed upon him.