Change to NIQs

[cully86]

If this means no more Clint Newlands and Peter Borlase type characters coming in and clogging the system it will be a capital idea.

[Hippo]

anybody needing a laugh (or cry) should check this out.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/ind ... x/id/10342

out of interest, have the irfu ever struggled for revenue even when we had one of the least competitive national teams in europe?

Deeply depressing. And of course you're right, they'll sell their 6 nations tickets regardless of the rubbish being produced.

[Dave Cahill]

If this means no more Clint Newlands and Peter Borlase type characters coming in and clogging the system it will be a capital idea.

if this means no more Stan Wrights and BJ Bothas coming in and enhancing Irish rugby, then it will be a terrible idea.

[cully86]

The provinces role is to provide players for the international team.

[Dave Cahill]

anybody needing a laugh (or cry) should check this out.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/ind ... x/id/10342

out of interest, have the irfu ever struggled for revenue even when we had one of the least competitive national teams in europe?

When Ireland won 7 out of 10 wooden spoons (I think thats the right number open to correction) during the 90s, couldn't beat Italy, needed a revolution at home to beat Romania and were hockeyed by Samoa, you still couldn't get a 5 Nations ticket for love nor money.

[Dave Cahill]

The provinces role is to provide players for the international team.

Which they are doing more successfully than ever over the last decade under the current system.

What this will do is provide a lot of mediocre players for the international team, instead of a few top class ones. And its top class players that are required, not your tony buckleys or gary browns.

[future international]

The provinces role is to provide players for the international team.

Which they are doing more successfully than ever over the last decade under the current system.

What this will do is provide a lot of mediocre players for the international team, instead of a few top class ones. And its top class players that are required, not your tony buckleys or gary browns.

The cheek of mentioning Gary Brown in the same sentence as Buckley!

[TerenureJim]

not your tony buckleys or gary browns.

Careful you'll have Darce on in a second.

I can see how we'd all like to see the back of the likes of Newland and Borlasse and maybe have the provinces take a punt on a lad plying their trade in the UK or down at AIL who with a bit of support could do a job at Pro12 level as a sub etc and given some professional conditioning see how he goes but if the IRFU want to seriously pursue this project then they'll need to increase investment to the club game as well as relying on the provincial academies.

[hugonaut]

The provinces role is to provide players for the international team.

Which they are doing more successfully than ever over the last decade under the current system.

What this will do is provide a lot of mediocre players for the international team, instead of a few top class ones. And its top class players that are required, not your tony buckleys or gary browns.

Amen.

Damien Browne - lovely fellah, bit strong man, hard-working, intelligent sort of a chap, well-travelled – never going to be capped for Ireland in a month of Sundays unless there's a disaster at the second row factory and O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Ryan, Cullen, O'Driscoll, Toner, Tuohy, McCarthy, Caldwell and Casey [all ten of them capped at second-row since Kidney took over] are put out of action. Then maybe Big D. Browne will get the call, although Declan [providing he survives the explosion] will most likely call up Ian Nagle and Billy Holland.

Apparently it's vitally important to the IRFU that we had an Irish-qualified player at second row rather than Nathan Hines. Essentially anybody, so long as he's Irish. Tail wagging the dog.

[Doc]

Apparently it's vitally important to the IRFU that we had an Irish-qualified player at second row rather than Nathan Hines. Essentially anybody, so long as he's Irish. Tail wagging the dog.

Thats a fairly biased presentation of the sitaution in fairness. Hines turned 35 in November. On top of that he was going to be away until November because of the World Cup, and possibly (if he hadn't retired) for the 6N as well. The IRFU were only prepared to offer a 1 year deal. Clermont were prepared to go further.

I think most Leinster fans, myself included, would have liked Hines to stay, but it is hardly an outlandish piece of business by the IRFU. Once he went we were free to hire another NIQ player - which we did with Sykes. Browne was additional to the situation

[slum]

Apparently it's vitally important to the IRFU that we had an Irish-qualified player at second row rather than Nathan Hines. Essentially anybody, so long as he's Irish. Tail wagging the dog.

Thats a fairly biased presentation of the sitaution in fairness. Hines turned 35 in November. On top of that he was going to be away until November because of the World Cup, and possibly (if he hadn't retired) for the 6N as well. The IRFU were only prepared to offer a 1 year deal. Clermont were prepared to go further.

I think most Leinster fans, myself included, would have liked Hines to stay, but it is hardly an outlandish piece of business by the IRFU. Once he went we were free to hire another NIQ player - which we did with Sykes. Browne was additional to the situation

how can the IRFU say age is a problem for Hines, but then deem it ok to select guys of his vintage for the international team?

[Doc]

They didn't say age was a problem - they just didn't want to offer a longer contract to a player who would only be there for part of the year and who isn't going to have too many years left. I think they'd be pretty much the same with any irish qualified player, e.g. I don't know when Leos contract is out, but he is 34 in a few weeks and if it expired at the end of this season I'd say he be getting something like a 1 (or 2 max) year contract - much like players before him who were reaching the end - e.g. Big Mal.

I'm sure we could all agree that a 5 year contract might make sense for a guy of 24/25 (if they're really good!), but it doesn't for a guy of 35 - no matter how good they are. My personal view would be that even 3 years would be too long and 2 years could be stretching it in most cases.

It seems to me that Clermont were prepared to go that extra step and I wouldn't blame Hines for taking the offer - like Felipe taking his offer from Toulon. That doesn't make the IRFU the villains of the piece

[QBer]

Does this mean that if a province such as Leinster produces good players from its academy, another province e.g. Munster which does not graduate as many good academy players is likely to get more NIQ players in key positions at the first province’s expense effectively.

[slum]

They didn't say age was a problem - they just didn't want to offer a longer contract to a player who would only be there for part of the year and who isn't going to have too many years left. I think they'd be pretty much the same with any irish qualified player, e.g. I don't know when Leos contract is out, but he is 34 in a few weeks and if it expired at the end of this season I'd say he be getting something like a 1 (or 2 max) year contract - much like players before him who were reaching the end - e.g. Big Mal.

I'm sure we could all agree that a 5 year contract might make sense for a guy of 24/25 (if they're really good!), but it doesn't for a guy of 35 - no matter how good they are. My personal view would be that even 3 years would be too long and 2 years could be stretching it in most cases.

It seems to me that Clermont were prepared to go that extra step and I wouldn't blame Hines for taking the offer - like Felipe taking his offer from Toulon. That doesn't make the IRFU the villains of the piece

Yes, they were. They have shown themselves to be clowns in this case. Hines was one of the most valuable players on the field for plenty of games and he is ripping up trees for clermont.

Hines next year will still be better than Sykes next year.

[slum]

Does this mean that if a province such as Leinster produces good players from its academy, another province e.g. Munster which does not graduate as many good academy players is likely to get more NIQ players in key positions at the first province’s expense effectively.

Absolutely! Like i said; if Hagan and Ross were to become 1st and 2nd choice TH for Ireland then we would ultimately be punished for developing them.

[Doc]

Yes, they were. They have shown themselves to be clowns in this case. Hines was one of the most valuable players on the field for plenty of games and he is ripping up trees for clermont.

Hines next year will still be better than Sykes next year.

Yeah sure. They got outbid. For an Irish player there are two big advantages - the tax rebate and the increased likelihood of being capped if playing in Ireland. Neither applied here, so were in a pure bidding war with a club with a much bigger budget than we have. That doesn't make them clowns, irrespective of how well Hines is playing. Someone somewhere has to put a euro value on what he brings, and with limited money, you can't have everything. I'd prefer he was still here, but neither of us (AFAIK) are privy to the exact contract details. All we know is that it was a one year offer. My point is that that is hardly an unreasonable stance on a 35 year old player.

[Doc]

Does this mean that if a province such as Leinster produces good players from its academy, another province e.g. Munster which does not graduate as many good academy players is likely to get more NIQ players in key positions at the first province’s expense effectively.

Absolutely! Like i said; if Hagan and Ross were to become 1st and 2nd choice TH for Ireland then we would ultimately be punished for developing them.

So why have any limits on NIQ players - is that punishing us?

Also, when it comes development of the two players you mention, Harlequins and Connacht would have far stronger arguments to make about having developed those players.

[Hippo]

Also, when it comes development of the two players you mention, Harlequins and Connacht would have far stronger arguments to make about having developed those players.

If that's how they've developed the Hagan I've seen playing this season...

[olaf the fat]

The provinces best enjoy the next two seasons, whilst they are still able to compete in the Hcup.

[berniemac67]

Apparently it's vitally important to the IRFU that we had an Irish-qualified player at second row rather than Nathan Hines. Essentially anybody, so long as he's Irish. Tail wagging the dog.

Thats a fairly biased presentation of the sitaution in fairness. Hines turned 35 in November. On top of that he was going to be away until November because of the World Cup, and possibly (if he hadn't retired) for the 6N as well. The IRFU were only prepared to offer a 1 year deal. Clermont were prepared to go further.

I think most Leinster fans, myself included, would have liked Hines to stay, but it is hardly an outlandish piece of business by the IRFU. Once he went we were free to hire another NIQ player - which we did with Sykes. Browne was additional to the situation

disagree
hines had and has plenty of time left