Cullen out for up to 8 weeks

[artaneboy]

We'll need something from Sykes too, especially if Dev is in the Six Nations squad. Mark Flanagan will definitely see more action too during the Six Nations too.

Gutted for Leo though. He said in his book that he was having constant problems last season with his Achilles tightening up before and during games. It was just one of them though. Interesting that they're choosing to have the operations now though. They probably figured he wouldn't feature much or at all during the Six Nations, so they may as well do it now and hopefully have him back for the HC quarter-finals.

Exactly that on the timing- and probably the right call too. While age is not on his side, I'd say he has a good fighting chance of being back for the quarter-final. As someone who suffered from achilles problems myself, I know they are a bugger to heal - they never really do without heavy physio and a lot of rest- or surgery and possibly less rest. But as a second rower, the acceleration required of, say outside backs, that stresses the moody blighters (tendons, not wingers ) is less of an issue. Leo's also a great man to manage an injury; played with one effective shoulder apparently for a lot of his career.

Could be the making of Toner and I'd say we'll know the worth of Sykes by the end of 2 months. Browne usually gives you his all- limited maybe but consistent in his skill set. It will be intriguing.

[artaneboy]

O'Callaghan will start with O'Connell.

Ryan will cover them from the bench and O'Brien and Ferris will fill the backrow.

Why anyone would expect anything different is beyond me.

Well, how about that Ryan is in ahead of O'C in the Munster team! And playing well. Does that count for nothing?

[simplythebest]

The short sightedness of tipping Nathen overboard at the end of last season, will be revealed, I fear.

IRFU showed him the door not Leinster

There is no way in f*ck we wanted to get rid of Nathan Hines.

I'm well aware of that, but that doesn't make it right. Tbh, I'm still smarting from it, Nathan was Leinster through and through (in terms of his attitude and application) and the work rate he put in and his general hardness were all admirable and he was playing fantastic. Leinster was his real home.
(Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread, just explaining my original post).

[deco]

Leo's misfortune will give Sykes the opportunity to prove his naysayers wrong. Hopefully he's get over his injury problems and get in a decent runs of games for us.

[No23]

Tough on Cullen but he has not reached the same heights as last year and must be close to hanging up the boots.Strange call that he was in the 6N squad for a number of reasons.

[simplythebest]

Tough on Cullen but he has not reached the same heights as last year and must be close to hanging up the boots.Strange call that he was in the 6N squad for a number of reasons.

Thought the same myself, after Kidley ignored him for the past two years (when he was playing great stuff). The cynic in me says that Kidley was indebted for the respect Leo showed him in his book, and that he then named Leo for the squad, in full knowledge that he was going for surgery.

[Flash Gordon]

Leo's misfortune will give Sykes the opportunity to prove his naysayers wrong. Hopefully he's get over his injury problems and get in a decent runs of games for us.

Exactly, we Sykes is a good player and the intention was always to bring him through. Hopefully, when fully fit he'll grab the opportunity!

[[Jackass]]

Fu*k you IRFU, get someone else to hold the tackle bags. Man, I've really grown to dispise the IRFU this season. It's been bubbling for a while, but they're making the FAI look like a professional outfit. Surely they wont delay or try to over rule this with more interferance?? If I was Leo, and it came down to it, and was forced to choose, he should burn his bridges with the IRFU, time wasters for him, and he never got the recognition he deserved.

Good timing for it, but massive challange for the squad.

Very interesting to get a glimpse of the captain in waiting, presumably Heaslip.

Wow, big test now for the squad.

I've been meaning to ask this question for a while, and I don't want to drag this off topic, but why wouldn't Ruddock and McLaughlin in the second row work?

I know the height and weight argument, but McLaughlin is only 2KGs off Cullen for example, Ruddock is a bit lighter, but could beef up presumably, but in terms of these two players, they'd be better ball carriers than most of our second row players, more athletic, better at the breakdown....I guess I just mean, as long as you have 3 good lineout options (Heaslip, McLoughlin & Ruddock, with Toner specialist option) and scrum can function, shouldn't the second row in the modern game just be an extension of the back-row? I would love to see either or both of these players be given a real shot a second row and have 5 back-row players on the field, and pretty much 8 forward ball carrying options, with high skill levels in the pack as well as the grunt.

[ronk]

Tough on Cullen but he has not reached the same heights as last year and must be close to hanging up the boots.Strange call that he was in the 6N squad for a number of reasons.

Which is why it makes sense for him to have the operation now. Leinster can manage, Ireland can manage and he might be back in time to make an important contribution to our season.

It's clear that he's not as much use playing hurt because his form has been limited.

[Donny B.]

.

Very interesting to get a glimpse of the captain in waiting, presumably Heaslip.

I've been meaning to ask this question for a while, and I don't want to drag this off topic, but why wouldn't Ruddock and McLaughlin in the second row work?

I know the height and weight argument, but McLaughlin is only 2KGs off Cullen for example, Ruddock is a bit lighter, but could beef up presumably, but in terms of these two players, they'd be better ball carriers than most of our second row players, more athletic, better at the breakdown....I guess I just mean, as long as you have 3 good lineout options (Heaslip, McLoughlin & Ruddock, with Toner specialist option) and scrum can function, shouldn't the second row in the modern game just be an extension of the back-row? I would love to see either or both of these players be given a real shot a second row and have 5 back-row players on the field, and pretty much 8 forward ball carrying options, with high skill levels in the pack as well as the grunt.

Where this argument falls down is the scrum. You need proper beef in the engine room and while you might get away with a lighter backrow type in the lineout, you really do miss it in the scrum. You could see this when they tried to out Alan Quinlan in the second row.

McLaughlin might just be a runner as a back-up second row but I can't see it happening for Ruddock though.

[johng]

.

Very interesting to get a glimpse of the captain in waiting, presumably Heaslip.

I've been meaning to ask this question for a while, and I don't want to drag this off topic, but why wouldn't Ruddock and McLaughlin in the second row work?

I know the height and weight argument, but McLaughlin is only 2KGs off Cullen for example, Ruddock is a bit lighter, but could beef up presumably, but in terms of these two players, they'd be better ball carriers than most of our second row players, more athletic, better at the breakdown....I guess I just mean, as long as you have 3 good lineout options (Heaslip, McLoughlin & Ruddock, with Toner specialist option) and scrum can function, shouldn't the second row in the modern game just be an extension of the back-row? I would love to see either or both of these players be given a real shot a second row and have 5 back-row players on the field, and pretty much 8 forward ball carrying options, with high skill levels in the pack as well as the grunt.

Where this argument falls down is the scrum. You need proper beef in the engine room and while you might get away with a lighter backrow type in the lineout, you really do miss it in the scrum. You could see this when they tried to out Alan Quinlan in the second row.

McLaughlin might just be a runner as a back-up second row but I can't see it happening for Ruddock though.

Playing 2 x back rows in the 2nd row is a bit like driving a convertible sports jeep mpv. It's gotta be chyte at at least 2 of those options. In this case lineout and scrum. The 2 best suppliers of 1st phase ball in space.

[Ruckedtobits]

Based on some of Shaggy's comments re his Tendon operation, Leo's timing might be solely about the availability of the surgeon. As he is reported as going to Sweden for the op, the guy must be in major demand and Leo may be getting it done as quickly as possible without totally screwing up the fixture list.

The main factor must be his prognosis for full recovery. Presumably it was for reasons such as the possibility of an injury like this that Sykes was recruited, but can't see him making any impact now, given how little he has been selected.

[Ultra Vires]

Second row is gonna cost us big time this season. We're weaker than the other big teams there anyway before you throw in the Sykes and Cullen injuries.

[ronk]

Based on some of Shaggy's comments re his Tendon operation, Leo's timing might be solely about the availability of the surgeon. As he is reported as going to Sweden for the op, the guy must be in major demand and Leo may be getting it done as quickly as possible without totally screwing up the fixture list.

The main factor must be his prognosis for full recovery. Presumably it was for reasons such as the possibility of an injury like this that Sykes was recruited, but can't see him making any impact now, given how little he has been selected.

Sykes was recruited because there was an uncertain medium/long term outlook for locks in this country. He has struggled with injuries and the form of Toner and Browne so far. If it was one big simple injury like Payne no one would say anything, instead he's had a persistent knee problem and he's had unsuccessful comebacks.

[slum]

dreadful news... looks like cullen is going to put off the operation.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 14649.html

very interesting article - in particular the final sentence

"Schmidt also added the provincial coaches will probably meet next week to discuss the IRFU’s Player Pathway Program."

[slum]

Based on some of Shaggy's comments re his Tendon operation, Leo's timing might be solely about the availability of the surgeon. As he is reported as going to Sweden for the op, the guy must be in major demand and Leo may be getting it done as quickly as possible without totally screwing up the fixture list.

The main factor must be his prognosis for full recovery. Presumably it was for reasons such as the possibility of an injury like this that Sykes was recruited, but can't see him making any impact now, given how little he has been selected.

Sykes was recruited because there was an uncertain medium/long term outlook for locks in this country. He has struggled with injuries and the form of Toner and Browne so far. If it was one big simple injury like Payne no one would say anything, instead he's had a persistent knee problem and he's had unsuccessful comebacks.

i don't think we'll be seeing Sykes during the 6N

[Broken Wing]

Metro Herald has Leo saying he'll play through the pain if needed but after tomorrow's game he'll sit down with Joe and Kidney to discuss the situtation.

If he puts off the operation he'd better get more than a 15 second cameo from Eddie O'Kidney.

[kendalgerty]

I can't help but feel that putting off the surgery to help out int he Six Nations would be the wrong option. In his current form and condition, I don't see how much he can offer to the Irish team. I'd find it hard to believe he's suddenly going to have leapfrogged Ryan to get his bench spot back, when Ryan is now first choice at Munster. It looks like Deccie would like to have his experience to call on, but only in an emergency, and I'd be surprised if he even made a matchday squad.

[Broken Wing]

In his current form and condition, I don't see how much Kidney can offer to the Irish team.

Couldn't agree more.

Counting the days.

[Oldschool]

Achilles tendon problems can be extremely painful, but they can be managed.
Knowing he has an issue, Leo is unlikely to do serious damage to it, while continuing to play.
However the issues for Leo are.
1. Is it effecting his performance level significantly. Probably
2. Will Dekko pick him. Probably not
3. If he has the op. now will he be OK for the resumption of the HEC.
4. Is he likely to be on the NZ tour. Probably not

So the issue for Leo is timing. If he has it now and is good to go for the HEC, then he should have it now.
If it is effecting his performance then having it now might actually help his NZ chances.
And finally - Why didn't he sort this out when he had his shoulder op. (He mentioned in his book, that his achilles has been a chronic problem for him)

As an aside, I noticed when Leo was subbed against Glasgow, that Brown locked the TH and Toner moved from the TH to the LH.
Normally the strongest scrummager locks the TH, so this suggests that either Leo's shoulder needs a rest or that Toner is considered a stronger scrummager, which should be of interest to those who question Toner's scrummaging ability (I for one think he's a strong scrummager).