Indo reporting Donnacha Ryan considering Leinster move

[the spoofer]

Leinster are understandibly bigging up both Dev and Mads becuase of their recent Pro12 form, and they certainly will get a chance to shine or get crushed down under this summer...

Neither though have yet done it at the HEC level to the same degree as POM and Zebo.

Have to agree with that in relation to Madders. Let's face it though, there's a bloke called Ronan who is going to retire soon, and Kidders doesn't want to be in a situation where Sexton is injured at the same time and he has to throw in somebody entirely new. Give him a go and see what he can do I say.

IMO, Keats and Mads will only be 5-10 cap makeweights till either/both JJ or/and Jackson emerge...

Hanrahan doesnt look like an outhalf to me. Jackson just doesnt look very good.

Madigan has performed to a far higher standard this year than Keatley has to date. Would I like to see him starting an international yet, no but if he continues to progress then perhaps.

[[Jackass]]

Leinster are understandibly bigging up both Dev and Mads becuase of their recent Pro12 form, and they certainly will get a chance to shine or get crushed down under this summer...

Neither though have yet done it at the HEC level to the same degree as POM and Zebo.

Have to agree with that in relation to Madders. Let's face it though, there's a bloke called Ronan who is going to retire soon, and Kidders doesn't want to be in a situation where Sexton is injured at the same time and he has to throw in somebody entirely new. Give him a go and see what he can do I say.

IMO, Keats and Mads will only be 5-10 cap makeweights till either/both JJ or/and Jackson emerge...

This confuses me...

You're making the argument that Madigan doesn't look like he'll make it, despite his blistering form this season and 7 or 8 tries, and yes I think he has plenty to improve on, such as his game management and kicking from hand, but he has looked easily Heineken Cup level in the way he can run the backline and make yards with his breaks (already doing it in the Heineken Cup this season, all be it vs Bath).... massive progress, one of the most impressive young Irish players out there.....and you cite your reason as he's done nothing... .... then go on to say JJ or Jackson will be the ones to watch??

Granted both have been very good at underage level, but neither have done anything like what Madigan has done at senior level yet, and JJ more than likely will develop as a Paddy Wallace type 10/12 (potentially better obviously), but at 23 (3 years older than JJ and Jackson), Madigan is well ahead of any of them, including Keatley, who has been very poor for Munster imo.

Madigan is clear ahead as 3rd choice for Ireland at the moment (if the coach wasn't Kidney), and on his current rate of improvement, I don't see why he would fade away, in fact, if he keeps improving as he is, it wont be long before he gives Sexton a genuine challange for the jersey.

Anyway, I couldn't be happier with the options at 10 at Leinster. I think we'll have two home grown top international quality 10's to choose from down the line, and can rotate similar to Boss / Reddan scenario.

I'm just waiting for the emrgence of McGrath at 9 and our halfback situation will be home grown and one of the strongest in Europe (hopefully).

[suisse]

I'm just waiting for the emrgence of McGrath at 9 and our halfback situation will be home grown and one of the strongest in Europe (hopefully).

Risky business. Leinster don't have a strong record at producing 9s anymore, and for the past decade we have seen some come and go - O'Riordan, Willis - who all had potential but we were left to rely on imported (outside the province) players like Whits, Reddan, Boss and Easterbunny.

I also disagree with Apocrypha. I think Ian Madigan is going to be a star at this level. His passing, pace and change of direction are outstanding. He looks like a cocky little fecker too. Good at tackling. I think Jezzer said here a long, long time ago. Madigan to be Leinster's starting 10, maybe with Sexton our 12. Future Ireland combo?

[lostprofit]

I head on the terrices that Mads was a cocky little f**ker all right. Some told me too cocky for his own good sometimes.
But my word, hes on some fine bloody form right now so long may it continue.
Is he the finished article?
Good BOD, no hes no where near finished and his kicking and decision making could use some work. But the kicking can be worked on in practice and the decision making will come with experience. Its been a long time so I cant remember, but Im sure ROG's decision making now is better than when he first started?
As for Madigan.. hohoho.. I have never been a fan. When he was at Connacht , no matter if he started at 10 or 15, he never ever EVER once looked the business.
Now hes at Munster its a case of new scenery same old BS. The man is as weak as wet tissue when it comes to dealing with pressure.
Future Ireland international?
To yous kind sirs, I say in your dreams!
Jesus Christ, Farrell for Englad would savage Keatley!

[suisse]

As for Madigan.. hohoho.. I have never been a fan. When he was at Connacht , no matter if he started at 10 or 15, he never ever EVER once looked the business.
Now hes at Munster its a case of new scenery same old BS. The man is as weak as wet tissue when it comes to dealing with pressure.
Future Ireland international?
To yous kind sirs, I say in your dreams!
Jesus Christ, Farrell for Englad would savage Keatley!

Careful now with those typos

[MelbourneRebel]

I think that Leinster, Munster and Ulster should all be in agreement that their marquee players are off limits to eachother. Whatever about provincial loyalties etc, it drives salary inflation for the 3 big provinces.

[ronk]

I think that Leinster, Munster and Ulster should all be in agreement that their marquee players are off limits to eachother. Whatever about provincial loyalties etc, it drives salary inflation for the 3 big provinces.

We are and there's been general adherence to this principle until recently.

I don't think we were ever in for Ryan, more likely it was a case of spinning his contract extension as an indication of Munster's busyness in the market.

The big development I'm seeing lately is direct quotes from agents making it into the papers and the way they've suddenly become central in terms of media reporting. Agents are being named and their other clients are being brought into some of these stories.

This change in perception isn't happening by accident.

[simonokeeffe]

Joe has already said provinces can't outbid each other for centrally contracted players

[lostprofit]

As for Madigan.. hohoho.. I have never been a fan. When he was at Connacht , no matter if he started at 10 or 15, he never ever EVER once looked the business.
Now hes at Munster its a case of new scenery same old BS. The man is as weak as wet tissue when it comes to dealing with pressure.
Future Ireland international?
To yous kind sirs, I say in your dreams!
Jesus Christ, Farrell for Englad would savage Keatley!

Careful now with those typos

Nah, sure Im just trying to create a debate
Dammit, I meant Keatly! Damn Korean keyboards.
I never did understand why he is so rated by some though.

[Apocrypha]

I'm just waiting for the emrgence of McGrath at 9 and our halfback situation will be home grown and one of the strongest in Europe (hopefully).

Risky business. Leinster don't have a strong record at producing 9s anymore, and for the past decade we have seen some come and go - O'Riordan, Willis - who all had potential but we were left to rely on imported (outside the province) players like Whits, Reddan, Boss and Easterbunny.

I also disagree with Apocrypha. I think Ian Madigan is going to be a star at this level. His passing, pace and change of direction are outstanding. He looks like a cocky little fecker too. Good at tackling. I think Jezzer said here a long, long time ago. Madigan to be Leinster's starting 10, maybe with Sexton our 12. Future Ireland combo?

The only way Mads will improve upon my 5-10 cap prediction is if Sexton maintains his current form in the green shirt...Scoring tries against half-conscious Welsh, Scotish and Italian sides in the Rabble Defect counts for nothing, especially if you have to ask your big brother (McFadden) to undertake place kicking duties...Keats currently can't seem to handle the pressure at Munster, and looks a shadow of the player he was @Connacht...

Basically, 10 will become a massive problem area for Ireland, unless DOC has a word with Sexton...

[olaf the fat]

[The only way Mads will improve upon my 5-10 cap prediction is if Sexton maintains his current form in the green shirt...Scoring tries against half-conscious Welsh, Scotish and Italian sides in the Rabble Defect counts for nothing, especially if you have to ask your big brother (McFadden) to undertake place kicking duties...Keats currently can't seem to handle the pressure at Munster, and looks a shadow of the player he was @Connacht...

Basically, 10 will become a massive problem area for Ireland, unless DOC has a word with Sexton...

Unlike Munster, we are not all related!

[Apocrypha]

[The only way Mads will improve upon my 5-10 cap prediction is if Sexton maintains his current form in the green shirt...Scoring tries against half-conscious Welsh, Scotish and Italian sides in the Rabble Defect counts for nothing, especially if you have to ask your big brother (McFadden) to undertake place kicking duties...Keats currently can't seem to handle the pressure at Munster, and looks a shadow of the player he was @Connacht...

Basically, 10 will become a massive problem area for Ireland, unless DOC has a word with Sexton...

Unlike Munster, we are not all related!

I was being facetious. Unlike Leinster, we are not all literalists...

[olaf the fat]

[The only way Mads will improve upon my 5-10 cap prediction is if Sexton maintains his current form in the green shirt...Scoring tries against half-conscious Welsh, Scotish and Italian sides in the Rabble Defect counts for nothing, especially if you have to ask your big brother (McFadden) to undertake place kicking duties...Keats currently can't seem to handle the pressure at Munster, and looks a shadow of the player he was @Connacht...

Basically, 10 will become a massive problem area for Ireland, unless DOC has a word with Sexton...

Unlike Munster, we are not all related!

I was being facetious. Unlike Leinster, we are not all literalists...

At least we are all senseofhumourists.

Agreed on Madigans kicking. If there were real intentions for international caps, he would place kick.

[Mickado]

Of course he has intentions for international caps! Do you think he'll never take a placed kick for the rest of his career?

[West Brit]

Agreed on Madigans kicking. If there were real intentions for international caps, he would place kick.

Or maybe, just maybe, Ireland could look at other countries and see that the fly half doesn't have to be the kicker? Were Ireland and England the only tier 1 countries that only had the fly half kicking the entire world cup for example? If NZ, Australia, France, South Africa, Wales, Italy, Argentina and Scotland can all find kickers that don't have the number 10 on their backs, why are Ireland incapable of even thinking about looking for somebody?

[Leoslovechild]

Agreed on Madigans kicking. If there were real intentions for international caps, he would place kick.

Or maybe, just maybe, Ireland could look at other countries and see that the fly half doesn't have to be the kicker? Were Ireland and England the only tier 1 countries that only had the fly half kicking the entire world cup for example? If NZ, Australia, France, South Africa, Wales, Italy, Argentina and Scotland can all find kickers that don't have the number 10 on their backs, why are Ireland incapable of even thinking about looking for somebody?

Was I seeing things or did Madigan not kick the last and most difficult conversion of the match against Aironi two weeks ago with the last kick of the game?

[ronk]

Agreed on Madigans kicking. If there were real intentions for international caps, he would place kick.

Or maybe, just maybe, Ireland could look at other countries and see that the fly half doesn't have to be the kicker? Were Ireland and England the only tier 1 countries that only had the fly half kicking the entire world cup for example? If NZ, Australia, France, South Africa, Wales, Italy, Argentina and Scotland can all find kickers that don't have the number 10 on their backs, why are Ireland incapable of even thinking about looking for somebody?

Was I seeing things or did Madigan not kick the last and most difficult conversion of the match against Aironi two weeks ago with the last kick of the game?

Yes but he missed a kick in school and you wouldn't want to get in the way of the sequel to ROG v Sexton: Keatley v Madigan.

I've already seen some of the same Munster fans who slag off Sexton starting build up their repertoire about Madigan. People forget that for all his raw talent, Madigan is someone who's been given opportunities through 3 different players suffering massive injuries (Berne, Berquist and McKinley).

[simonokeeffe]

Madigan's kicking out of hand seems to be more of a relevant issue for Leinster when McFadden and Nacewa are ahead of him in place kicking duties

[Clermont]

I think people are too quick to write off Madigan because of his lack of regular kicking. Couple of points to note here. When asked/required, he's always accepted the responsibility & while I don't know his stats, I would have thought they were above average.

At the end of the day, Joe is the one who decides on the kicking. Should Madigan "demand" that he be given more opportunities? perhaps he already has and and was refused.

Granted some of his kicking out of hand might not be as good as Sextons/ROG's BUT he's not the first choice starter so therefore he's not getting nearly as much match-practice as the other two. Also, between Sexton/ROG, the standard of kicking into the corner in Ireland is incredibly high.

Everything about Madigans career so far is of someone who grabs an opportunity with both hands when presented. I don't believe there's any reason to think kicking would be any different.

Finally, the idea that he lacks international ambition because he doesn't place kick for Leinster is ludicrous!

[Munsterboy]

I think people are too quick to write off Madigan because of his lack of regular kicking. Couple of points to note here. When asked/required, he's always accepted the responsibility & while I don't know his stats, I would have thought they were above average.

At the end of the day, Joe is the one who decides on the kicking. Should Madigan "demand" that he be given more opportunities? perhaps he already has and and was refused.

Granted some of his kicking out of hand might not be as good as Sextons/ROG's BUT he's not the first choice starter so therefore he's not getting nearly as much match-practice as the other two. Also, between Sexton/ROG, the standard of kicking into the corner in Ireland is incredibly high.

Everything about Madigans career so far is of someone who grabs an opportunity with both hands when presented. I don't believe there's any reason to think kicking would be any different.

Finally, the idea that he lacks international ambition because he doesn't place kick for Leinster is ludicrous!

Read an interview with him recently where (iirc) he said he'd like to be taking the kicks but that Schmidt's call was to stick with McFadden, who has a better percentage. There's no doubt he can kick, although he's probably not quite at the level required or I imagine Joe would let him at it.

Anyway, given McFadden will likely be in the Irish side and I believe Murray can kick pretty well too, there's no reason to rule McFadden out on that basis. He's starting to look like a better option than Keatley at this stage and if he can develop his game management, he'll put it up to Sexton.