jezzer wrote:
Personally, I'm disappointed in McCarthy a little. I think there is a genuine change in the fortunes of Connacht underway and I'd have liked to see him stay there.
Jezzer,
Can't undestand why anyone would be disappointed in McCarthy, McCarthy staying at Connacht is asking him to be resigned to winning nothing at club level for the rest of his career, the only thing you can accuse McCarthy of is having a bit of ambition. Whats wrong with him wanting to avoid a situation that when he hangs up his boots he is left wondering what might have happened. If any of us get a chance to move job to a bigger/better company, who has the right to say we can't move on to realise our full potential. If he was at Munster or Ulster and Leinster wanted him, he could say there is a reasonable chance of me winning a Rabo/HCup staying where I am, that is not the case with Connacht. McCarthy has now grown bigger than the club and I would not begrudge him his move at his age. I am sure no Connacht players hold it against him and no doubt many of them would jump at the opportunity themselves. Whilst Connacht fans will be disappointed many will not be surprised and I am sure many would wish him all the best. The fact remains Connacht are the 4th best team in Ireland and realistically will remain so, any players good enough to play for the big 3 will always move thats reality. Any players that move there view the side as a final resting place or a stepping stone. Realistically any young Leinster/Munster players moving there do so to get some experience to hopefully move back to their home province, if they end up being good enough. I think some of our youngsters may well move to Connacht but the best of them will be buying a return ticket rather than a single. Players move on to better clubs every season, nobody's fault just reality. And even if Mccarthy did stay there is absolutely no guarantee other players as they progress would stay too, most would chose to move.
Bit of a storm in a tea cup.
Everything you say is absolutely true.
But I still feel that way.
Everything you say is absolutely true.
But I still feel that way.[/quote]
Yep you have to feel for Connacht but thats the harsh reality of where Connacht are right now. Their sights are set on the odd big morale boosting win in the Rabo or HC each year. Leinster offer the opportunity of playing at the very top of the game every year, not really sure what Connacht's Chairman could say to make McCarthy stay. I'm sure the argument two years ago was your going to be warming the bench, thats not the case now. It is now or never for McCarthy, trust in yourself and jump for the stars or resign yourself to under achieving. The best thing McCarthy can do now is go on and make the very most of his opportunity and maybe help Connacht get into the HC by helping Leinster win it.
I understand Conor George was influential in the players points being qaushed as he was following the player at the time and swore there was no way the player was speeding.
"sh!t like this happens. We had to believe it" Jonathan Sexton on coming back from 16 points down at half time to win 2nd Heineken Cup
macboomba wrote:I understand Conor George was influential in the players points being qaushed as he was following the player at the time and swore there was no way the player was speeding.
I heard that RoG's points were quashed in mitigation as he was trying to evade said hack who was in hot pursuit of the rugby ligind at the time.
"That was shiterarse coaches need to look at themselves this is as bad at is.beem with school. Items impeovrnkyb neefedc"
Someone mentioned Mike Fitzgerald of the Chiefs above. I think he's exactly the kind of player we need at the moment - an enforcer in the second row. With a name like that, he could easily be IQ too.
"Hickie, scorching down the wing... God, I've missed saying that!" - Ryle Nugent
tackle-bag wrote:Someone mentioned Mike Fitzgerald of the Chiefs above. I think he's exactly the kind of player we need at the moment - an enforcer in the second row. With a name like that, he could easily be IQ too.
Donny B. wrote:By the fact that Connacht were asking from help from the IRFU, would indicate McCarthy isn't on a central contract, so the blazers wouldn't have a remit to tell him where to go.
In some ways I'm uneasy with us signing him, the same way I wasn't keen on Munster looking to sign O'Halloran and Griffin a couple of seasons back.
On the other side, who are we to curtail McCarthy's ambition as a player? He's 31 and though a late bloomer, he's probably got 3/4 top years left and this is his last major contract that he'll sign. If he's got ambitions to win silverware, realistically he's not going to do it at Connacht is he?
Sums up my mixed feelings too. I think we need to let Sears vent a little and suck it up. The irrationality of the position will dawn with most fair-minded people eventually.
"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
Donny B. wrote:By the fact that Connacht were asking from help from the IRFU, would indicate McCarthy isn't on a central contract, so the blazers wouldn't have a remit to tell him where to go.
In some ways I'm uneasy with us signing him, the same way I wasn't keen on Munster looking to sign O'Halloran and Griffin a couple of seasons back.
On the other side, who are we to curtail McCarthy's ambition as a player? He's 31 and though a late bloomer, he's probably got 3/4 top years left and this is his last major contract that he'll sign. If he's got ambitions to win silverware, realistically he's not going to do it at Connacht is he?
Sums up my mixed feelings too. I think we need to let Sears vent a little and suck it up. The irrationality of the position will dawn with most fair-minded people eventually.
I think we need to remember that we've signed the best tighthead lock in the country for the next three years. It was clearly our biggest position of need, and it's one that we have filled without spending a NIQ slot. It's a position where players excel in their late 20s to mid 30s, and we've signed an international calibre player who's bang in the middle of that age bracket.
There are no shortage of young middle jumpers/loosehead locks in the club – Toner [26] and Flanagan [23] in the senior squad and Marshall [22], Beirne [20] and Thornbury [19] in the academy – and given McCarthy's action-man style of game, he's a better partner for any of them at Pro12 level than any of the other locks currently in the squad. Still, I think it's a serious longshot that either Beirne or Thornbury [both currently in first year of the academy] are going to have any impact for the senior team either this year or the next, but hopefully we can get productive seasons out of the first three. They'll all be a year older and hopefully have more games behind them by the time McCarthy arrives.
tackle-bag wrote:Someone mentioned Mike Fitzgerald of the Chiefs above. I think he's exactly the kind of player we need at the moment - an enforcer in the second row. With a name like that, he could easily be IQ too.
It would be worth signing him just for the headline "Leinster have a Mickeyfitz"
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
I have to out myself and say that I'm a Connacht fan first and a Leinster fan second. With that I'm going to throw in my 2 cents. Is Mike McCarthy leaving a kick in the teeth? Yes, but that's professional sport and I for one don't blame the player or Leinster for doing a piece of business. My main gripe would be in the timing of the release but I think that was down to some journalist leaking it rather than Leinster or Connacht saying now's a good time when we've Clermont & Biarritz away to face.
As for Tom Sears your looking it at it the wrong way. Firstly by saying what he does he confirms the story stopping any rumours of has he signed or not, secondly he puts one across the bow of the IRFU who even if they don't have anything to do with this is a way to get leverage in the future and thirdly it's damage control with the Connacht fans. We fought for him and he chose Leinster, where before it would be the usual 'ah sure what can ya do' malarky. Him fighting his corner even though he lost has gone down well with the Connacht fans (including me) and where before no-one on either side would even blink about a Connacht player going (i.e. Chris Keane) it's now a big deal and shows were we're going and how far we've come.
suisse wrote:Yeah, J. Murphy is reports are right. I'd say at least 1 of the 3 muskateers we signed from them a few years back.
Bitterness factor from Munsterboy already raging on mf.com. I wonder is it the same one who posts here. I think they hate us (some of them).
Anyway, welcome Mike. Great signing.
You rang, sir?
Rugby is getting more like knackerball every day.
Why the bitter reply on mf.com? Mike is a very good player. If he's out on contract, should he be denued the opportunity to move to a club who wants him where we can challenge for 2 medals a season instead of staying west where he mightbt even be in the h cup next year?
Bitterness implies jealousy to me Suisse and I'm not jealous about this in the slightest. I just don't like to see a bigger province poaching from Connacht. I'd be disgusted if we did it.
The way I see it is this:
Taking back a player we sent them (e.g. Hagan): fine.
Taking a player they got from another province and developed for a couple of years (e.g. Keatley): ok-ish. (But why didn't we sign that player ourselves in the first place? Connacht took the risk and gave them game time. Is it right to swoop in with the big bucks now the player has proven capable?)
Taking a player they developed themselves (I'd put McCarthy in that bracket given how long he's been there): pretty low.
The excuse that we "give them" players doesn't wash with me. We give them lads that we don't want and most of them are fairly useless. If they do turn out to be good, we're not slow to take them back. It's a no-lose move for us.
Munsterboy wrote:
Bitterness implies jealousy to me Suisse and I'm not jealous about this in the slightest. I just don't like to see a bigger province poaching from Connacht. I'd be disgusted if we did it.
The way I see it is this:
Taking back a player we sent them (e.g. Hagan): fine.
Taking a player they got from another province and developed for a couple of years (e.g. Keatley): ok-ish. (But why didn't we sign that player ourselves in the first place? Connacht took the risk and gave them game time. Is it right to swoop in with the big bucks now the player has proven capable?)
Taking a player they developed themselves (I'd put McCarthy in that bracket given how long he's been there): pretty low.
The excuse that we "give them" players doesn't wash with me. We give them lads that we don't want and most of them are fairly useless. If they do turn out to be good, we're not slow to take them back. It's a no-lose move for us.
And,,,,,,what if Mike McCarthy doesn't wanna be there anymore? This poaching stuff is unreal. Two teams offered this man the same contract (so I read) and he choose to move to Leinster. Why is that so hard to understand? He wasn't kidnapped or stolen. Should this top player be forced to stay with a team who are frequently basement dwellers because they developed him? What if - shocking development here - he wants to win medals and play in the HEC, neither of which he is likely to/guaranteed to do with Connacht? Why can't he decide where he wants to play? Or should Leinster stay out of this and allow him move to France even though they're short a good lock, just for fans' sensitivity? Mike is 31 FFS, allow him to make his own decisions
Munsterboy wrote:
Bitterness implies jealousy to me Suisse and I'm not jealous about this in the slightest. I just don't like to see a bigger province poaching from Connacht. I'd be disgusted if we did it.
The way I see it is this:
Taking back a player we sent them (e.g. Hagan): fine.
Taking a player they got from another province and developed for a couple of years (e.g. Keatley): ok-ish. (But why didn't we sign that player ourselves in the first place? Connacht took the risk and gave them game time. Is it right to swoop in with the big bucks now the player has proven capable?)
Taking a player they developed themselves (I'd put McCarthy in that bracket given how long he's been there): pretty low.
The excuse that we "give them" players doesn't wash with me. We give them lads that we don't want and most of them are fairly useless. If they do turn out to be good, we're not slow to take them back. It's a no-lose move for us.
And,,,,,,what if Mike McCarthy doesn't wanna be there anymore? This poaching stuff is unreal. Two teams offered this man the same contract (so I read) and he choose to move to Leinster. Why is that so hard to understand? He wasn't kidnapped or stolen. Should this top player be forced to stay with a team who are frequently basement dwellers because they developed him? What if - shocking development here - he wants to win medals and play in the HEC, neither of which he is likely to/guaranteed to do with Connacht? Why can't he decide where he wants to play? Or should Leinster stay out of this and allow him move to France even though they're short a good lock, just for fans' sensitivity? Mike is 31 FFS, allow him to make his own decisions
It may be semantics, but I would guess that its not a case of McCarthy not wanting to be in Connacht, but of him wanting to give himself the best option of playing at the highest level. Irrespective of contracts and money, and in that context moving away from Connacht is the right move for him.
Never argue with an idiot. Someone looking on may not be able tell the difference
TrapperChamonix wrote:
It may be semantics, but I would guess that its not a case of McCarthy not wanting to be in Connacht, but of him wanting to give himself the best option of playing at the highest level. Irrespective of contracts and money, and in that context moving away from Connacht is the right move for him.
Thats a good point. I have no doubt, ceteris paribus, that McCarthy would have been quite happy to stay in Connacht. You don't play like that for a team you're not happy with. But all things aren't equal. No matter how much money Connacht/the IRFU could offer, they couldn't offer him. the one thing any professional sportsman wants. To play at the highest level. Connacht may well be playing HEC rugby next season, its not beyond the realms of possibility, but players can't make career decisions based on other teams maybes.
And on that point, iirc Connacht weren't looking good for HC rugby when three of their younger players announced that they wanted to leave. So it's not like they knew what they were giving up and you can't wait for another team's HC final before making a decision on your future.
