jezzer wrote:Population of Dublin is 1m, Another million in the rest of Leinster, but they obviously don't count.... you'd begrudge someone with little chance of getting to Donnybrook Strand a mid-season match against the Ospreys, a chance to meet the squad and something to talk about at work on Monday so you can keep it as an exclusively Dublin preserve. You're happy for Leinster to take players from outside Dublin but not have those players play in front of their local fans, friends and families.
There is no question of excluding anyone, in fact how could they do that ask for their Dublin passports before going into games?
All marketing should be geared towards Dublin though
epaddy wrote:Well thats the difference between the Leinster Branch and Leinster Rugby. If Leinster rugby becomes very popular in the city, the hicks will want to come along too
That's not what it says - and I live in the country anyway - it's a minimum of an hours drive each way for me to get to DB. On Sunday I had to set off at about 3pm for the KO and it was well after 8pm when I got home and that's with minimumal socialising. Leinster Rugby is a club and like every rugby club (except the Barbarians) they need a home. As I say look at them more as being a professional football club - they don't travel around - the GP teams in England don't move around - the French teams don't move around. There is absolutely no logical reason why Leinster should travel around.
"I don't think Edinburgh is the place it used to be"
Its the same for Turnipstan and the Gringos. As Dave says, games are played in Limerick, similarly the Gringos play at Ravers - they don't take the roadshow to Donegal, Armagh or (God forbid) Cavan.....
If you're in the biggest city in the country, you should be able to market your product. I'd be happy to play the odd game in Dundalk or Carlow if it contributes to expanding the player base and interest in rugby - though commercially, I don't think it would or could even make sense....would we regularly pull in 7000 in Athlone or Dundalk? I don't think so.
As for supporting other provinces over you own. Frankly, I don't understand that. How could the passion and commitment ever be there so you could shout against your own people? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting a perpetual roadshow from town to town. I can hear the Littlest Hobo soundtrack already...
Leinster needs better marketing in Dublin, no question. Munster have benefitted in Leinster from a more productive HEC run and from the fact that there are a lot more Munster heads in Dublin than Leinster heads in Cork/Limerick (we're not focking crazy after all). Don't fool yourselves - we need bandwagon supporters just as much as the hardcore. There's about 3000 fairly hardcore supporters, another 3000 occasional fans and the rest will rock up for a big game. Even if we can build the hardcore following, it'll never get beyond 7or 8000 in our wildest dreams. The rest will be bandwagon, blow-ins, fairweather supporters - call em what you like.
The attraction of playing the odd game outside Dublin is for TV audiences more than anything, but also to help draw potential Leinster fans into Dublin for games they otherwise wouldn't have bothered going to. As i said in my first post, the people who watch Setanta - loosely speaking - are the same 3-6000 that would go to games. The league can't continue on that basis.
Yeah, you got me there with the Munster match! If that was in Donnybrook and using the official figure of 6,500 then we're probably on target for a slight increase this year but not much. But last year's attendance was up massively and this year we've been affected by scheduling aswell as anything else. Also as epaddy says Donnybrook isn't a great venue for families (or for anyone for that matter). I thoroughly enjoyed the RDS this year. A lot more than Donnybrook and that's the crux of it. We need to get DB redeveloped ASAP or make the move to the RDS permanent.
Personally I think the approach of building the Dublin attendance to saturation and then going on the road is the best way to do it. While moving some games that get low attendances anyway might seem like a good idea it could seriously backfire when 1 man and his dog turn up. To be honest I think midweek games are the way to go for the 'lesser' matches. I think people who've nothing better to do on a Wednesday would go along in greater numbers than go along at weekends when people feel the match is interupting their day.
My point is that in a province of 2 million people, it's bad for the team to get less than 4,000 people to an interpro game, or even less at a top of the table clash versus Edinburgh. It could be a Sunday thing or it could be that the team is badly marketed (as is the CL). I feel that if the LB were willing to be brave about tings and risk the odd game in Dundalk or Kilkenny, with the players going around to schools as was suggested earlier, Leinster would benefit from the buzz.
After all, a fair few Leinster players are from the badlands, it'd be easy to sell some of the games on novelty value alone.
I'm not suggesting moving every, or even many games away from Dublin. However, simple things like some Leinster Connacht games being held in Athlone should be encouraged.
OK so you're not suggesting moving many home games - but how many home games are there in the CL? 10 - so move 1 and that's 10%, 2 is 20% etc - how would that affect the selling of seaon tickets? What is of more value to the team? Who would by a season ticket not knowing where the games would be played and that some could be in the furthest parts of the province and midweek. It's bad enough knowing that they're being played in DB on a particular weekend - add in more inponderables and season ticket sales will collapse.
"I don't think Edinburgh is the place it used to be"
Uncle Mort wrote:It's bad enough knowing that they're being played in DB on a particular weekend - add in more inponderables and season ticket sales will collapse.
Both dour and pessimistic at the same time - are you sure that's you in the photo or are you a bit more miserable in real life!!!
JoseFantastique wrote:My point is that in a province of 2 million people, it's bad for the team to get less than 4,000 people to an interpro game, or even less at a top of the table clash versus Edinburgh. It could be a Sunday thing or it could be that the team is badly marketed (as is the CL). I feel that if the LB were willing to be brave about tings and risk the odd game in Dundalk or Kilkenny, with the players going around to schools as was suggested earlier, Leinster would benefit from the buzz.
After all, a fair few Leinster players are from the badlands, it'd be easy to sell some of the games on novelty value alone.
I'm not suggesting moving every, or even many games away from Dublin. However, simple things like some Leinster Connacht games being held in Athlone should be encouraged.
Jose, I do take your point but I think UM has a point about season ticket holders and the game was very much affected by being on a Sunday. 5.15 on a Sunday has to be the worst time possible for a game. It's a schoolnight so families wouldn't be inclined to go, it's a day of rest for the many young people who've spent the weekend drinking, it's laundry night or ironing night for others. Generally it's not a time when a lot of people can get away from their family or loved ones. And that's just the Leinster supporters. The hassle for Connacht fans is too much. If ever there was a game that should have been on the Friday or even Saturday night this was it.
JoseFantastique wrote:My point is that in a province of 2 million people, it's bad for the team to get less than 4,000 people to an interpro game, or even less at a top of the table clash versus Edinburgh. It could be a Sunday thing or it could be that the team is badly marketed (as is the CL). I feel that if the LB were willing to be brave about tings and risk the odd game in Dundalk or Kilkenny, with the players going around to schools as was suggested earlier, Leinster would benefit from the buzz.
After all, a fair few Leinster players are from the badlands, it'd be easy to sell some of the games on novelty value alone.
I'm not suggesting moving every, or even many games away from Dublin. However, simple things like some Leinster Connacht games being held in Athlone should be encouraged.
Jose, I do take your point but I think UM has a point about season ticket holders and the game was very much affected by being on a Sunday. 5.15 on a Sunday has to be the worst time possible for a game. It's a schoolnight so families wouldn't be inclined to go, it's a day of rest for the many young people who've spent the weekend drinking, it's laundry night or ironing night for others. Generally it's not a time when a lot of people can get away from their family or loved ones. And that's just the Leinster supporters. The hassle for Connacht fans is too much. If ever there was a game that should have been on the Friday or even Saturday night this was it.
I totally agree CM. the problem is that without a sponsor the CL can't turn down cash from anywhere and because setanta have bought the rights the CL are in no position to tell them where to go when it comes to scheduling fixtures.
If the league had a proper sponsor then maybe we would see better scheduling or am I just being naive?
I don't think you are being naive at all - Setanta call the shots and the CL and us are in no position to argue. The CL needs a sponsor and can't get one too soon.
"I don't think Edinburgh is the place it used to be"
Terrible suggestion in my view. Leinster should decide on their "home", be it the Brook, RDS or Lansdowne, and stick to it. You don't see Man Utd or Real Madrid playing their home games in different locations in order to spread their fan base.
Regular location, regular kick off times and more promotion/advertising is what Leinster need.
Duff Paddy wrote:Terrible suggestion in my view. Leinster should decide on their "home", be it the Brook, RDS or Lansdowne, and stick to it. You don't see Man Utd or Real Madrid playing their home games in different locations in order to spread their fan base.
Munster play in Cork and Limerick .... To spread their fan base.
Duff Paddy wrote:Terrible suggestion in my view. Leinster should decide on their "home", be it the Brook, RDS or Lansdowne, and stick to it. You don't see Man Utd or Real Madrid playing their home games in different locations in order to spread their fan base.
Munster play in Cork and Limerick .... To spread their fan base.
Not true. Munster play from 2 home grounds as a result of politics. Besides, what relevance does that have for Leinster? Munster are not the template for provinical success - far from it, as their CL attendances this year have been anything but impressive.
Besides, Jim Williams wrote an article earlier this year saying that the logistical issues associated with having two bases (i.e. the commute) was a major factor in Munster's inability to make the step up and win a H Cup.
Flash Gordon wrote:Its the same for Turnipstan and the Gringos. As Dave says, games are played in Limerick, similarly the Gringos play at Ravers - they don't take the roadshow to Donegal, Armagh or (God forbid) Cavan.....
If you're in the biggest city in the country, you should be able to market your product. I'd be happy to play the odd game in Dundalk or Carlow if it contributes to expanding the player base and interest in rugby - though commercially, I don't think it would or could even make sense....would we regularly pull in 7000 in Athlone or Dundalk? I don't think so.
As for supporting other provinces over you own. Frankly, I don't understand that. How could the passion and commitment ever be there so you could shout against your own people? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I think the issue may be that many people in Leinster who are outside of the metropolis don't feel that Leinster are necessarily "their own people", as by and large the players are, with few exceptions, well off and middle class who attended a very small number of schools in and around Dublin. Moreover, the may feel, rightly or wrongly, that the supporters are drawn from the same type of person and therefore a hypothetical farmer with no background in rugby from Longford might feel more in common with the people on terraces in Thomond than with the people who attend Donnybrook. They might come to this website and feel rather put off with threads on affluence etc, no matter how light hearted the intent.
Uncle Mort wrote:I don't think you are being naive at all - Setanta call the shots and the CL and us are in no position to argue. The CL needs a sponsor and can't get one too soon.
But it's a viscious circle, kick-off times chosen with TV viewers in mind means that attendances are effected. Poor attedndences means that no-one's interested in becoming a sponsor. Lack of sponsorship means that setanta calls the shots and we start all over again.
Flash Gordon wrote:Its the same for Turnipstan and the Gringos. As Dave says, games are played in Limerick, similarly the Gringos play at Ravers - they don't take the roadshow to Donegal, Armagh or (God forbid) Cavan.....
If you're in the biggest city in the country, you should be able to market your product. I'd be happy to play the odd game in Dundalk or Carlow if it contributes to expanding the player base and interest in rugby - though commercially, I don't think it would or could even make sense....would we regularly pull in 7000 in Athlone or Dundalk? I don't think so.
As for supporting other provinces over you own. Frankly, I don't understand that. How could the passion and commitment ever be there so you could shout against your own people? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I think the issue may be that many people in Leinster who are outside of the metropolis don't feel that Leinster are necessarily "their own people", as by and large the players are, with few exceptions, well off and middle class who attended a very small number of schools in and around Dublin. Moreover, the may feel, rightly or wrongly, that the supporters are drawn from the same type of person and therefore a hypothetical farmer with no background in rugby from Longford might feel more in common with the people on terraces in Thomond than with the people who attend Donnybrook. They might come to this website and feel rather put off with threads on affluence etc, no matter how light hearted the intent.
Flash Gordon wrote:Its the same for Turnipstan and the Gringos. As Dave says, games are played in Limerick, similarly the Gringos play at Ravers - they don't take the roadshow to Donegal, Armagh or (God forbid) Cavan.....
If you're in the biggest city in the country, you should be able to market your product. I'd be happy to play the odd game in Dundalk or Carlow if it contributes to expanding the player base and interest in rugby - though commercially, I don't think it would or could even make sense....would we regularly pull in 7000 in Athlone or Dundalk? I don't think so.
As for supporting other provinces over you own. Frankly, I don't understand that. How could the passion and commitment ever be there so you could shout against your own people? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I think the issue may be that many people in Leinster who are outside of the metropolis don't feel that Leinster are necessarily "their own people", as by and large the players are, with few exceptions, well off and middle class who attended a very small number of schools in and around Dublin. Moreover, the may feel, rightly or wrongly, that the supporters are drawn from the same type of person and therefore a hypothetical farmer with no background in rugby from Longford might feel more in common with the people on terraces in Thomond than with the people who attend Donnybrook. They might come to this website and feel rather put off with threads on affluence etc, no matter how light hearted the intent.
Duff Paddy, are you just annoyed cause no-one's suggested playing games in Bray yet?
In the last 6 years of serious professionalism in this country, being solely based in Dublin hasn't broadened Leinster's appeal so why do you dismiss this idea out of hand?
