Mike McCarthy will join Leinster next season

[Donny B.]

Ultimately the only answer for Connacht is to stop being a halfway house for Leinster/Munster/Ulster squad men and develop their own players from within their own ranks.

I'm guessing that part of the problem is that they thought that the last time they'd be losing their best players was when there was that mass exodus a couple of years ago and that the signing of Parks etc showed that they were finally building something that would last. I can absolutely understand their frustration but don't see what Leinster did wrong.

If I was a talented youngster then I'm not sure I'd want to go to Connacht to develop my game now because apparently you're a terrible person if you then decide to leave and further your career.

This is the hypocrisy I'm talking about. How many times do you hear in the media that "young players shouldn't be playing A games for Leinster or Munster, they should be starting for Connacht to get experience". Yet when these players do their couple of years, get their experience and go back to their original province, "it's a disgrace" and "bad for the game"!

[Logorrhea]

As for Connacht going forward. The IRFU now owe them, Leinster owe them, Munster owe them. It'll be intereting to see how everyone delivers on this perceived debt.

I don't see how either Leinster or Munster owe them anything. Its not the job of Leinster or Munster to develop/manage/whatever rugby in Connacht. Thats the job of the CBIRFU and the IRFU.

Was just talking about the perception of debt, relating to the one-directional flow of players, as published through the press etc. I dont believe we owe them a jot either, and youre right, the IRFU will feel the weight of it.

[Dave Cahill]

As for Connacht going forward. The IRFU now owe them, Leinster owe them, Munster owe them. It'll be intereting to see how everyone delivers on this perceived debt.

I don't see how either Leinster or Munster owe them anything. Its not the job of Leinster or Munster to develop/manage/whatever rugby in Connacht. Thats the job of the CBIRFU and the IRFU.

Was just talking about the perception of debt, relating to the one-directional flow of players, as published through the press etc. I dont believe we owe them a jot either, and youre right, the IRFU will feel the weight of it.

Aha, gotcher.

[Golf Man]

This is professional sport. Connacht aren't going to win anything, simple as that.

RVP moved from Arsenal to Manure. Surprised?

Pretty sure that the FA don't have much control over Man Utd and Arsenal - you are kind of forgetting about the role of the IRFU in all of this. Presumably Connacht, Dragons, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Treviso & Zebre should just give up as they haven't won anything either.

As I said earlier Connacht should be either a development province out and out or should be allowed a fair shot to establish themselves properly - the IRFU have a huge role to play in this

[Donny B.]

The only way they'll ever have a "fair shot" was if they received the same funding as the big three. But that would mean those three taking a hit. Would you be willing to see Munster lose money and players to increase Connacht's share?

[hugonaut]

As for Connacht going forward. The IRFU now owe them, Leinster owe them, Munster owe them. It'll be intereting to see how everyone delivers on this perceived debt.

I don't see how either Leinster or Munster owe them anything. Its not the job of Leinster or Munster to develop/manage/whatever rugby in Connacht. Thats the job of the CBIRFU and the IRFU.

Absolutely, DC. The Leinster brass had a very smooth relationship with Gerry Kelly [the previous Connacht CEO and a total gentleman] and thus there was a very good relationship between Connacht Rugby and Leinster Rugby, with Connacht a significant beneficiary. Tom Sears is going around calling Leinster 'bad for Irish rugby' which is a quick way to spoil a relationship, even if Leinster don't come out all guns blazing in the press.

There are always agents and other teams [in Ireland, England and Wales] keeping tabs on players in the Leinster Academy, as it has a reputation for preparing players well for the pro game. In the past, academy members who weren't going to be offered a full or development contract with Leinster would often be counseled by staff to talk to Connacht ahead of other non-Irish clubs [including English Premiership clubs and Welsh Pro12 clubs, as well as RFU Championship clubs].

Given all the static that Leinster have gotten over the last 18 months for 'poaching' Connacht players, this "preferred bidder" status could very easily be quietly dropped. It hasn't done a massive amount for Leinster in the past anyway. It's very simple [and in many ways better for the player] to play the informed neutral as an advisor: let the players talk to whomever they want and fill them in on the pros and cons of going to a club like Leicester or Harlequins or the Ospreys for two years ahead of going to Connacht. When you're talking to a player in that capacity, you're advising him as to what's best for the player and his career, not what's best for the rather slippery concept of "Irish rugby". That's not to say counsel against going west, just present it as an option like the other offers.

In PR terms the difference in bringing a player back to Ireland from a club like Wasps [i.e. Eoin Reddan] or Harlequins [i.e. Mike Ross] is black and white compared to bringing a player to Leinster from Connacht, as we have seen in recent days. It's not as though Connacht do a better job with their players or necessarily expose them to more gametime than Leicester [where former Leinster players Niall Morris and Michael Noone are based] or Saracens [Eoin Sherriff] or Gloucester [Shane Monahan]. To offer a personal opinion, it just looks like it's not worth the hassle.

[Donny B.]

That could be the case alright Hugo.

Perhaps this could be best solved by instigating a proper loan system where certain players are loaned to Connacht for a season, but they clearly remain players for the other provinces. That way the players get the gametime, Connacht get the players services for a season and when they go back there's no "they stole our players" hysteria.

[tones]

As for Connacht going forward. The IRFU now owe them, Leinster owe them, Munster owe them. It'll be intereting to see how everyone delivers on this perceived debt.

I don't see how either Leinster or Munster owe them anything. Its not the job of Leinster or Munster to develop/manage/whatever rugby in Connacht. Thats the job of the CBIRFU and the IRFU.

Absolutely, DC. The Leinster brass had a very smooth relationship with Gerry Kelly [the previous Connacht CEO and a total gentleman] and thus there was a very good relationship between Connacht Rugby and Leinster Rugby, with Connacht a significant beneficiary. Tom Sears is going around calling Leinster 'bad for Irish rugby' which is a quick way to spoil a relationship, even if Leinster don't come out all guns blazing in the press.

There are always agents and other teams [in Ireland, England and Wales] keeping tabs on players in the Leinster Academy, as it has a reputation for preparing players well for the pro game. In the past, academy members who weren't going to be offered a full or development contract with Leinster would often be counseled by staff to talk to Connacht ahead of other non-Irish clubs [including English Premiership clubs and Welsh Pro12 clubs, as well as RFU Championship clubs].

Given all the static that Leinster have gotten over the last 18 months for 'poaching' Connacht players, this "preferred bidder" status could very easily be quietly dropped. It hasn't done a massive amount for Leinster in the past anyway. It's very simple [and in many ways better for the player] to play the informed neutral as an advisor: let the players talk to whomever they want and fill them in on the pros and cons of going to a club like Leicester or Harlequins or the Ospreys for two years ahead of going to Connacht. When you're talking to a player in that capacity, you're advising him as to what's best for the player and his career, not what's best for the rather slippery concept of "Irish rugby". That's not to say counsel against going west, just present it as an option like the other offers.

In PR terms the difference in bringing a player back to Ireland from a club like Wasps [i.e. Eoin Reddan] or Harlequins [i.e. Mike Ross] is black and white compared to bringing a player to Leinster from Connacht, as we have seen in recent days. It's not as though Connacht do a better job with their players or necessarily expose them to more gametime than Leicester [where former Leinster players Niall Morris and Michael Noone are based] or Saracens [Eoin Sherriff] or Gloucester [Shane Monahan]. To offer a personal opinion, it just looks like it's not worth the hassle.

Very, very good point. Sears is doing alot more damage this way. I wonder what affect this will have on current Connacht squad members from Leinster - the whole 9 of them.

[jezzer]

Absolutely, DC. The Leinster brass had a very smooth relationship with Gerry Kelly [the previous Connacht CEO and a total gentleman] and thus there was a very good relationship between Connacht Rugby and Leinster Rugby, with Connacht a significant beneficiary. Tom Sears is going around calling Leinster 'bad for Irish rugby' which is a quick way to spoil a relationship, even if Leinster don't come out all guns blazing in the press.

There are always agents and other teams [in Ireland, England and Wales] keeping tabs on players in the Leinster Academy, as it has a reputation for preparing players well for the pro game. In the past, academy members who weren't going to be offered a full or development contract with Leinster would often be counseled by staff to talk to Connacht ahead of other non-Irish clubs [including English Premiership clubs and Welsh Pro12 clubs, as well as RFU Championship clubs].

Given all the static that Leinster have gotten over the last 18 months for 'poaching' Connacht players, this "preferred bidder" status could very easily be quietly dropped. It hasn't done a massive amount for Leinster in the past anyway. It's very simple [and in many ways better for the player] to play the informed neutral as an advisor: let the players talk to whomever they want and fill them in on the pros and cons of going to a club like Leicester or Harlequins or the Ospreys for two years ahead of going to Connacht. When you're talking to a player in that capacity, you're advising him as to what's best for the player and his career, not what's best for the rather slippery concept of "Irish rugby". That's not to say counsel against going west, just present it as an option like the other offers.

In PR terms the difference in bringing a player back to Ireland from a club like Wasps [i.e. Eoin Reddan] or Harlequins [i.e. Mike Ross] is black and white compared to bringing a player to Leinster from Connacht, as we have seen in recent days. It's not as though Connacht do a better job with their players or necessarily expose them to more gametime than Leicester [where former Leinster players Niall Morris and Michael Noone are based] or Saracens [Eoin Sherriff] or Gloucester [Shane Monahan]. To offer a personal opinion, it just looks like it's not worth the hassle.

This is a really key point. Connacht need a relationship with Leinster way more than the other way around. Whatever about the disappointment of McCarthy leaving Galway, jeopardising a big supply source of talent over it seems like a pretty bad plan.

Again, I'm disappointed for Connacht to have him leave - their need for McCarthy to stay is greater than ours. But he had a straight choice put to him and the money was equal from both sides (apparently), so really Connacht's frustration should be with the man himself.

I have no difficulty with the IRFU diktat that said the other 3 provinces cannot outbid Connacht for one of Connacht's own players at renewal time. But that wouldn't have changed the outcome in this case. Beyond that, I really can't see the case for further restrictions.

[cormac]

The only way they'll ever have a "fair shot" was if they received the same funding as the big three. But that would mean those three taking a hit. Would you be willing to see Munster lose money and players to increase Connacht's share?

I'd be willing to see Munster lose money and players to increase Connacht's share.

[suisse]

Throwing Leinster under the bus just seems like the easy way out, and it probably saves Mike any grief. But the man was given a choice, and he choose Leinster. It seems this point is conveniently overlooked by the begrudges. He didn't have to come. He choose to come. If you're not happy about it, ask him why he choose to walk away. The argument I see flying around elsewhere is Mike will warm the bench like the other ex-Connacht players. Again, it is a stupid point. These players went to test themselves at the best club in Europe, to play in games like Sunday's v Clermont. Sean Cronin is a key member of the 23, whether starting or benched. Jamie Hagan might be, in a couple of seasons. Mike will assuredly (thanks Gerry) start if he maintains this form. Who can blame a guy who wants to chase medals and caps? We all know how Cronin reacted to winning the HEC - "I've never won anything in my life" - well players define their careers by what they have achieved.

Great signing. Delighted he's coming. It's tough on Connacht, but that's the nature of professional sport.

[Raydollard]

This is an inane and insane discussion and a complete waste of effort. The labourer is worthy of his hire.

[Slipper1]

If the reports of the same contract being on the table then it was McCarthy made the decision, not Leinster or the IRFU. Perhaps if Connacht start to regularly compete & win games throughout the season rather than pulling a couple of 'big ones' out of the bag each season they wouldn't be languishing in 10th place in the league.

McCarthy currently has a better chance of qualifying Connacht for the HEC by playing for any one of Munster, Ulster or Leinster.

[Golf Man]

Think the whole point is being missed in a rush to defend Leinster

I don't particularly think Leinster have a case to answer and McCarthy certainly doesn't

Also it not really equitable to talk about the Leinster born players in Connachts squad - Leinster simply have access to far more players of a far higher quality than any of the other provinces - simple geography is at work there and its not an arguement for anything

Someone suggested a proper loan system (possibly with sime agreement built in if Munster/Leineter/Ulster don't take the player back after the 2 year loan period that they can't come back form him for 3 years or something) or ideally some kind of trading system would benefit Connacht. It seems that Connacht can start to get places and teh other provinces can then just cherry pick their best players and knock them back a couple of steps each time. if thats Connacht's role in Irish rugby then fine, if its not there should be some controls to help them out - they need it more than anyone else.

Sears hasn't covered himself in glory - this is not a Leinster issue, its a Connacht issue, and by extension an IRFU issue

Perhaps if Connacht start to regularly compete & win games throughout the season rather than pulling a couple of 'big ones' out of the bag each season they wouldn't be languishing in 10th place in the league.

You're missing the point - if their best players are poached by teh other provinces every time they seem to be getting somewhere, how are they meant to compete?

[johng]

Someone suggested a proper loan system (possibly with sime agreement built in if Munster/Leineter/Ulster don't take the player back after the 2 year loan period that they can't come back form him for 3 years or something) or ideally some kind of trading system would benefit Connacht. It seems that Connacht can start to get places and teh other provinces can then just cherry pick their best players and knock them back a couple of steps each time. if thats Connacht's role in Irish rugby then fine, if its not there should be some controls to help them out - they need it more than anyone else.

That sounds like a plan.

[flustered]

sorry Golf Man he wasn't poached by leinster, he decided to come to Leinster himself!!

[Slipper1]

Joe Schmidt just said in the HEC presser that he was 'massively disappointed' that the reputation of Leinster has been called into question. "to say that we persistently pursued Mike McCarthy is just false"

quotes courtesy of Sinead Kissane

[R-Dog]

Henshaw given a full contract to keep the bully boy bigger provinces away

http://www.connachtrugby.ie/20121213831 ... l-contract

[Golf Man]

sorry Golf Man he wasn't poached by leinster, he decided to come to Leinster himself!!

Semantics

[tones]

Slipper - have you a link to this press conf?