Mike McCarthy will join Leinster next season

[Donny B.]

Leinster lost White, we signed Bent.

We lost Elsom, we promoted McLaughlin (and O'Brien).

We lost Stan Wright, we signed van der Merwe.

Ulster lost Botha, they signed Afoa.

You had signed Bent and let White go because you didn't need a 30+ NIQ backup TH ....

Elsom was only ever coming on a one year deal, you did not lose him. You had him on a one year loan from the ARU effectively.

You signed Ross and let Stan go.

Botha was let go because he was constantly injured, there isn't a single Ulster fan would say they lost him. Who got the better deal consequently btw?

Ross and Wright's Leinster careers overlapped by two years.

Yep Seapoint really needs to do his research. In fairness he's not generally this mis-informed.

[colster]

What exactly do Connacht fans want?
- The IRFU to fund them so that they reach the level of the other provinces? Most of the funds having been generated off the back of the other 3 provinces.
- That they be allowed to offer contracts to players from the other 3 provinces but the other provinces not be allowed offer contracts to any of their players.

Is that what they want?

[Donny B.]

The good of Irish Rugby my hole, come on seriously don't be giving me that old blarney . McCarthy's move has nothing to do with Ireland and everything to do with Leinsters's forwards coach inability to develop the next generation of second rows.

Well tell your gobshite of a CEO not to be throwing it around as a soundbite every two minutes and I'll refrain from mentioning it.

[Donny B.]

By we, you mean your Kiwi coaching ticket?

On the money front I'm inclined to believe a provincial CEO regardless of province has a better understanding than a coach.

By the way what has yours said?

Actually I mean our scouting system that went out looking for props with Irish passports.

And in the case of your CEO I wouldn't trust his understanding of much cause he does seem easily confused, especially in areas of employment law.

[CiaranIrl]

What exactly do Connacht fans want?
- The IRFU to fund them so that they reach the level of the other provinces? Most of the funds having been generated off the back of the other 3 provinces.
- That they be allowed to offer contracts to players from the other 3 provinces but the other provinces not be allowed offer contracts to any of their players.

Is that what they want?

I'm pretty sure they also want to abolish European employment law as well. A lot of commentary seems to say that they favour not allowing players that are out of contract to seek employment freely, or alternatively, they want to force x player (Dom Ryan or whatever) to go to Connacht in payment - regardless of x player's actual wishes.

[colster]

What exactly do Connacht fans want?
- The IRFU to fund them so that they reach the level of the other provinces? Most of the funds having been generated off the back of the other 3 provinces.
- That they be allowed to offer contracts to players from the other 3 provinces but the other provinces not be allowed offer contracts to any of their players.

Is that what they want?

I'm pretty sure they also want to abolish European employment law as well. A lot of commentary seems to say that they favour not allowing players that are out of contract to seek employment freely, or alternatively, they want to force x player (Dom Ryan or whatever) to go to Connacht in payment - regardless of x player's actual wishes.

Yes, I know. It really annoys me at this stage.
They want everything but their logic suggest that a player can only leave Connacht for a foreign club. That no other Irish province should get a look in. And they're lecturing about the good of Irish rugby.

[CiaranIrl]

Yes, I know. It really annoys me at this stage.
They want everything but their logic suggest that a player can only leave Connacht for a foreign club. That no other Irish province should get a look in. And they're lecturing about the good of Irish rugby.

Even if it wasn't basically illegal and nuts, it would be completely unworkable to say that Irish teams can't players from each other. What would have happened to Niall O'Connor after Connacht didn't want him anymore? Would he have been barred from going back to Ulster and forced to retire?

[suisse]

McCarthy's move has nothing to do with Ireland and everything to do with Leinsters's forwards coach inability to develop the next generation of second rows

FFS, what a brutal point to make. So, in other words, all transfers should be scraped now because your coaches have to produce the next generation of players? In every team, in every sport, players are signed because coaches can't produce players obviously. You sign players that improve your squad, make your team better.

The whinging is so tedious now. Mike McCarthy made a decision in the best interests in his career. The deal was equivalent to what Connacht offered. Why can't people get over this? He wants to play for a better team, to win trophies. He made this decision. Deal with it.

[suisse]

If for example Ulster were able to offer huge money to some of teh Leinster guys to jump ship how would you feel about Sexton, Heaslip, Healy< Fitz all moved north - thats the equivalent

As pointed out, Ulster can only offer what Leinster offer, so if the player jumps ship, then that means he has made that decision in what he feels are in his pwn best interests. A few years back, George Hook suggested Luke Fitzgerald should move to Munster (when we were sh!t). There was uproar here, not about Munster, but about Hook. Who should say where Fitz should play? Only he can. If these players, I'd be unhappy they didn't stay. But it would be their decision.

[suisse]

There is no restrictions on bonuses though and that is where Leinster and it's backers can make a vast difference to any amount Connacht can offer up front....

How vast?

Seapoint says no restrictions on bonuses.

Joe Schmidt says differently. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 35970.html#

“It is not financial. Again, a misconception that was in a newspaper today is that we can offer better bonuses. We can not offer anymore financial incentive than what Connacht set as the margin or the base. We can only match the base that they set up.

[elfan]

I'd imagine both sides OFFER the same bonuses but you are much more likely to realise them at Leinster than you are at Connacht?

[suisse]

I'd imagine both sides OFFER the same bonuses but you are much more likely to realise them at Leinster than you are at Connacht?

Depends on what they are. If one bonus is related to first team appearances, he's probably more likely to realise it at Connacht than Leinster, especially as he's not on a CC but will be heavily involved with Ireland next season. I'm sure Leinster and Connacht don't have the same bonuses - win the League, the HEC etc - but then I don't know. For example, for Leinster, there could be a bonus of winning the league for Leinster but Connacht have one just to qualify for the play-offs or finish in the top 6. I'm sure there are people here with the inside edge who can clarify.

[Mickado]

So the IRFU are now looking into the protocols by which one province can approach a player from another province.

Does Sears not want his players to know that other provinces are interested in signing them? how exactly is this fair on the player?

[nc6000]

Maybe he just didn't like his Mazda and fancied a new Volkswagen. Has anyone thought of that?

[Oldschool]

Connacht are getting exactly what they want.
They are getting plenty of attention.
Job well done.

[OTT]

Elsom was only ever coming on a one year deal, you did not lose him. You had him on a one year loan from the ARU effectively.

I really thought though that once we got him over here we could trap him for the rest of his career, isnt that how professional sport works? Naive of me I know.

[hugonaut]

Elsom was only ever coming on a one year deal, you did not lose him. You had him on a one year loan from the ARU effectively.

I really thought though that once we got him over here we could trap him for the rest of his career, isnt that how professional sport works? Naive of me I know.

I can't believe Australia would take him off us. Didn't they see how important he was for us and how well he played?

[Edna Kenny]

I wonder what role the agent plays in all of this? I'd imagine Mike McCarthy has advisors on his contract and any agent would be mad not to see what was out there when a client's contract was expiring. We've seen it loads in Leinster, in fact it's probably worse for Leinster as we are trying to hang onto players whilst big money offers are coming in from France. Who approached who in this situation? As Joe said, the only way to keep players is not to compete financially but to generate an environment where players want to stay. No one was happy when Felix Jones left Leinster but I didn't have any issue with Munster over it, it was good business on thier part, I was just disappointed we couldn't keep him. He moved to further his own career and who can blame him?

By all accounts the environment is pretty good in Connacht, there are some great young players coming through the ranks. There is however some uncertainty regarding who will be coaching next year and whether they will be in the Heineken Cup. McCarthy, at 31 probably feels like he has given a hell of a lot to Connacht but is looking for a chance to develop further. Does he take a risk and decide to stay and hope that Connacht improve to a trophy winning team in the next 3 years? Does he owe that to Connacht after years of service? Having given everything I think he deserves to make his own decision. Just as Johnny Sexton is entitled to do if he decides to see out his contract. I am sure we will see high profile players leave Leinster in the not so distant future, especially if the Anglo/French get their way with the Heineken Cup.

It's debatable whether it's good for Irish rugby but as has been said above the IRFU need to be careful where the law is concerned. I would say that as lonmg as provinces aren't allowed to get into bidding wars then players should be free to move where they like.

[Sauvignon Blank]

You signed Ross and let Stan go.

Oh Dear. Did you actually say that

McCarthy's move has nothing to do with Ireland and everything to do with Leinsters's forwards coach inability to develop the next generation of second rows

Ah here, leave it fkn out

Carry on.

[tones]

Yes Gerry Kelly had a great relationship with Leinster but what did we gain from that? We lost 3 of our best players in his tenure, so in that way the relationship was great for Leinster. The ins and outs of the Jamie Hagan deal seem to be forgotten pretty quickly.

Fionn Carr was signed by Connacht from Blackrock. Dave McSharry from UCD. Kyle Tonetti from Sale Sharks. Jason Harris Wright from Bristol. Dave Moore from Harlequins. None of them had any affiliation to Leinster when we signed them.

The players we would have signed directly from Leinster in the last couple of years were Ian Keatley, Jamie Hagan,Paul O Donoghue and Nathan White. POD had made 8 starts in his time at Leinster, spanning about 3 years in or around the first team. He was not offered a contract by Leinster, so in which case he was a free agent. Keatley and Hagan were very young and well down the pecking order at the time.

White was offered a 3 year deal by Connacht, Leinster didn't offer him 3 years. He was 2nd choice at Leinster, he was signed by Connacht as 1st choice and vice captain.

There's a big disparity between who's benefitting from who in the transfer merry go round. We've lost key players, Leinster haven't. Joe Schmidt may not be happy but spare a thought for Eric Elwood and the Connacht fans. This is one of the main reasons Elwood is leaving Connacht. He's in a no win position where any time there's a sign of progression or something building we get brought straight back down to earth

Jesus, not happy with making an idot of yourself on PR?

Just stating some facts

Unfortunately some of you are so consumed with your own agenda that you can't see the wood from the trees.

A 4th competitive Irish province for the betterment of the national team, because that's supposed to be our main agenda right? God forbid

Indeed.
And yes a 4th competitive team is ideal.