Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

[AdamK]

By the looks of it those are old drafts. Dawson has already said there would be terracing in the new build. The solution for me is to raise anglesea stand seats in the drawing you see there and put in terracing like in thomond. However, that'd probably ruin the the aesthetics of it as the anglesea stand would stand prominently higher than the grandstand, although it would improve the view. I'll miss my heighted viewing angle from my anglesea stand it seems.

[Xanthippe]

I'll miss my heighted viewing angle from my anglesea stand it seems.

Know how you feel. I have to say, and I know some may feel this is a snobbery issue but its really not, with the price paid to sit in the front row of the Anglesea I'd hate for us to be moved back behind a terrace area - what's wrong with the current layout with the terrace under the stand, gives them protection from the worst of the weather and gives us our raised front row seating.

[ceemec]

Personally, I don't see the need for the redevelopment. Yes, a few touches would be nice like new toilets for example but in terms of the RDS as a ground for watching rugby, it's fine. We're not getting full houses for the games we host there. The current set up is more than adequate. We shouldn't be looking to spend big money on an unnecessary project.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Not really a fan of the way the corners are done. Maybe they'll look better in reality but they remind me a bit of the old schoolboy section/tv studio in Landsdowne. They just don't seem to flow with the rest of it.

[nick31]

Personally, I don't see the need for the redevelopment. Yes, a few touches would be nice like new toilets for example but in terms of the RDS as a ground for watching rugby, it's fine. We're not getting full houses for the games we host there. The current set up is more than adequate. We shouldn't be looking to spend big money on an unnecessary project.

In fairness it would allow us to sell a few thousand extra season tickets which would be some nice additional revenue. There is also provision for corporate seating which whilst not something everyone tends to be keen on provides a great new income source and is something the current ground doesn't really let us take advantage of. As far as I know, the RDS would take up a lot of the cost alongside a potential naming rights sponsor. We are just tenants so I would imagine the RDS would take up a most of the cost or give us a chunk off the rent as they will be taking in more revenue on the back of additional food and drink sales (which they control). I'm an Anglesea stand STH but I think it would be a shame to lose the terracing as it is great at generating atmosphere. Would also like to keep the elevated view in the Anglesea. For me the great thing about the RDS as a rugby venue is the space around the ground which allows people to mingle and enjoy a pint outside instead of being squashed into a concrete block like a lot of modern stadia.

[johng]

Personally, I don't see the need for the redevelopment. Yes, a few touches would be nice like new toilets for example but in terms of the RDS as a ground for watching rugby, it's fine. We're not getting full houses for the games we host there. The current set up is more than adequate. We shouldn't be looking to spend big money on an unnecessary project.

In fairness it would allow us to sell a few thousand extra season tickets which would be some nice additional revenue. There is also provision for corporate seating which whilst not something everyone tends to be keen on provides a great new income source and is something the current ground doesn't really let us take advantage of. As far as I know, the RDS would take up a lot of the cost alongside a potential naming rights sponsor. We are just tenants so I would imagine the RDS would take up a most of the cost or give us a chunk off the rent as they will be taking in more revenue on the back of additional food and drink sales (which they control). I'm an Anglesea stand STH but I think it would be a shame to lose the terracing as it is great at generating atmosphere. Would also like to keep the elevated view in the Anglesea. For me the great thing about the RDS as a rugby venue is the space around the ground which allows people to mingle and enjoy a pint outside instead of being squashed into a concrete block like a lot of modern stadia.

I bet you would to lose the fecken pillars though.

[Dave Cahill]

Forget the atmosphere, terracing is great at creating additional revenue! According to UKGovs Green Guide to spectator safety at football grounds, the recommended safe amount of space for 40 seated patrons is the same as for 72 standing spectators (1.8 standing supporters per seat). Thats nearly double the ticket revenue (provided you charge the same price for a ticket). On top of which, surveys in the UK indicate that 77% of supporters each spend an average of £11 each in the ground on food/drink/merchandise, so by increasing the number of patrons...

[Slipper1]

I wouldn't have thought that LR would contribute anything to the redevelopment as they are just tenants and the RDS is essentially owned by its members so they would have a say in any 'shared ownership' scheme.

The cost of redevelopment has always been based on significant revenue being raised by the RDS in naming rights as the RDS are already heavily borrowed due to building the two Simmonscourt office blocks. There is more development planned there as well but nothing will happen until the buildings are fully let.

While a profit making business, the RDS is charged with supporting its foundation work and any commercial activity would need to ensure this is not compromised. So unless the stadium naming rights market picks up considerably or there's a magical benefactor or an unseen windfall appears I'd say it'll be awhile before this happens.

Oh, it still needs planning permission as well. In D4, with some residents less than 100ft away. And the country's most expensive houses about 500m away.

[simonokeeffe]

plus if you dont like the people beside you on a terrace you can move

would make it easier for any travelling support to congregate which would improve atmosphere and gen terrace tickets cheaper too

[Dave Cahill]

I wouldn't have thought that LR would contribute anything to the redevelopment as they are just tenants and the RDS is essentially owned by its members so they would have a say in any 'shared ownership' scheme.

They are indeed just tenants. Or, one could also say that for 9 months of the year, they are the Arenas only tenants. That gives one a certain amount of both stick and carrot.

[leinster4life13]

As someone else said look to Germany, terracing is a must. Hopefully the mistakes from the Aviva will be learned.
Factor in all these things the Aviva didnt.
1. No one cares what it looks like, seriously, noise retention is more important the aesthetics.
2. Terracing
3.Futureproofed with regards to capacity, factor in fan growth.
4. Fans enjoyment key, no blind spots.

[Slipper1]

I wouldn't have thought that LR would contribute anything to the redevelopment as they are just tenants and the RDS is essentially owned by its members so they would have a say in any 'shared ownership' scheme.

They are indeed just tenants. Or, one could also say that for 9 months of the year, they are the Arenas only tenants. That gives one a certain amount of both stick and carrot.

Dead right, maybe we are making the same point, I can never tell with your posts DC I was trying to say that as tenants LR would be under no obligation to contribute but if they did, I presume they would look for some sort of equity in the venture, something complicated by the RDS and it's membership structure.

[Hickiefan]

I'll miss my heighted viewing angle from my anglesea stand it seems.

Know how you feel. I have to say, and I know some may feel this is a snobbery issue but its really not, with the price paid to sit in the front row of the Anglesea I'd hate for us to be moved back behind a terrace area - what's wrong with the current layout with the terrace under the stand, gives them protection from the worst of the weather and gives us our raised front row seating.

Yeah but you'd lose those bloody pillars. I sit 10 rows up in the Grandstand and the view, while not as high, is definitely better IMO than the front rows of the Anglesea. Change is scary though!

[simonokeeffe]

Not really a fan of the way the corners are done. Maybe they'll look better in reality but they remind me a bit of the old schoolboy section/tv studio in Landsdowne. They just don't seem to flow with the rest of it.

its where theyre planning to put away fans
keeping the north/south stands removable for the showjumping complicates things

[Blue Voodoo]

As the RDS are the ones planning the improvements I imagine one of the assumptions is that the north and south stands have to come down for the Horse show so covering them unlikely

If the Anglesea stand is being redeveloped would prefer to see the terrace retained rather than just a seated stand

[ronk]

Forget the atmosphere, terracing is great at creating additional revenue! According to UKGovs Green Guide to spectator safety at football grounds, the recommended safe amount of space for 40 seated patrons is the same as for 72 standing spectators (1.8 standing supporters per seat). Thats nearly double the ticket revenue (provided you charge the same price for a ticket). On top of which, surveys in the UK indicate that 77% of supporters each spend an average of £11 each in the ground on food/drink/merchandise, so by increasing the number of patrons...

Not that I disagree about the need for a terrace, but I would point out that the biggest English soccer clubs aren't the ones pushing to have terraces allowed. Also there would be differences in the consumption pattern for fans in large terraces compared to seated fans.

As an aside, the Thomond Park Terracing is a good idea, but I think the boxes break up the link in the stadium too much. They went too far in building it around the high-value corporate customers (whose disappearance is a major cause of the financial problems they've been experiencing). To an extent something similar happened in Lansdowne Road with 10k seats on the premium level. It dominates the character of the stadium somewhat.

Put in a narrower terrace and cantilever the first rows of seats over part of the terrace. Fans would be right on top of the action and it would replicate much of the feel of Donnybrook if done right. Thomond Park's seating/terrace breakdown reflects in part the demands of the pre-existing ticket holders being predominantly terrace dwellers. While there's a strong demand for a Leinster terrace, that would represent much more of a minority, relatively speaking.

[Dave Cahill]

Not that I disagree about the need for a terrace, but I would point out that the biggest English soccer clubs aren't the ones pushing to have terraces allowed.

Man City, Aston Villa (not currently particularly successful, but still one of the biggest clubs in Britain), Celtic, Rangers and West Ham have all openly backed the campaign to return terracing. Man City actually have plans in place and are in discussions with the FA and the Government about a trial.

[Dave Cahill]

Also there would be differences in the consumption pattern for fans in large terraces compared to seated fans.

The problem is that we simply don't know. There is no data because standing has been gone so long in the UK in football and I haven't seen any studies from Rugby.

All I can say is what I can see from the bars that service the RDS terraces, they seem to be plenty busy!

I don't mean to look like I'm arguing with you in particular btw! I'm glad you raised the points you did. Its an issue that I've been interested in since the RDS redevelopment was first mooted a few years ago.

[ronk]

Also there would be differences in the consumption pattern for fans in large terraces compared to seated fans.

The problem is that we simply don't know. There is no data because standing has been gone so long in the UK in football and I haven't seen any studies from Rugby.

All I can say is what I can see from the bars that service the RDS terraces, they seem to be plenty busy!

I don't mean to look like I'm arguing with you in particular btw! I'm glad you raised the points you did. Its an issue that I've been interested in since the RDS redevelopment was first mooted a few years ago.

I'd missed that about the football. Man City have been innovating aggressively, so it they think it works then it probably will.

I'd say there's data, just not published. The GAA (and now the IRFU and FAI, by extension) would know a fair bit about concessions through Croke Park and some of the other stadia. The RDS is a bit different anyway because the North and South stands have fairly small exits and so the options are relatively limited (it can be a long enough walk). Lansdowne Road is very hit and miss in terms of concession options due to the restricted site. I've been out and back with pints and a trip to the jacks with loads of time to spare, but I've also seen people late to their seats after leaving early. I haven't really noticed what sort of movement takes place at halftime in the terraces in Thomond, but I thought they were fairly smart with the supporters bar (and positively idiotic over food, given their lack of competition).

[nc6000]

As the RDS are the ones planning the improvements I imagine one of the assumptions is that the north and south stands have to come down for the Horse show so covering them unlikely

How much harder can it be to cover the North & South ends even if they are only temporary?