Pro12: Munster v Leinster, Shelbyville, Sat 13th

[Vamos los azules]

Whether he has form or not is irrelevant in deciding if he should be cited. It may be taken as mitigation if/when a ban is being issued, but isn't relevant right now.

Well put. It's the act carried out rather than the person who carried it out that needs to be judged at this point to determine whether further action is necessary.

[munster#1]

Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying Hugo.

Congrats on the win ladies and gents, I'm not sure the better team won but that hardly matters, all that really matters are the points on the league table.

I am happy for some of the Munster lads despite the result. IMO pom, Tod, killer poc, varley and archer played very well, kind of a mixed bag in the backs. Saying that in am open to correction as I've only seen the game once, in a hotel in blanchardstown with no sound and no atmosphere in the bar.

[hugonaut]

The TMO – Jude Quinn – is from Munster [source: http://www.munsterrugby.ie/domestic/referees/index.php ].

It's not a great set-up, having a guy from one of the two organizations involved making decisions over whether or not a debatable try was scored. Just avoid it by getting a ref from Connacht or Ulster to be the TMO.

I know Jude very well, and it is a massive accusation to suggest that he made his judgement based on being bias. He is a very very good ref. He has more interest in junior and ail rugby than Munster.

I explicitly avoided making any reference to whether or not the TMO made a squint call, or even whether I felt the decision was right or wrong.

I stand by what I said, that it would be a better set-up to have a guy from one of the branches who isn't involved [i.e. Connacht or Ulster] as the TMO. I have no idea how anybody could disagree with that ... re-read what I wrote before you clamber up on to your moral high horse!

[red49]

If that RK non try had been a Munster non try I would have been very dissappointed ,there seemed to be an arm under the ball , think it was rk's but he surely grounded it too. Owens left it open though by his referral question, play should never have got to that end of field though as Owens missed Healy knock on. Re poc kick IMO no intent , awkwardly tried to hack ball away and caught Dk at same time as ball , won't be cited . Hope Dave k is ok .

[neilinboston]

From my perspective, archer survived in the scrums and i barely noticed him anywhere else. Granted that's a massive improvement for him, but I'm not sure I'd be quite so enthusiastic.
Killer did better, but i genuinely thought jack McGrath looked far better when he came on (tbhi thought he looked better than Healy too).
Tod had been the revelation for me, the last two weeks he's been immense. Nice to see pom mixing it in the tight instead of hanging out waiting for a grandstand run like he did all 6 nations.

[munster#1]

The TMO – Jude Quinn – is from Munster [source: http://www.munsterrugby.ie/domestic/referees/index.php ].

It's not a great set-up, having a guy from one of the two organizations involved making decisions over whether or not a debatable try was scored. Just avoid it by getting a ref from Connacht or Ulster to be the TMO.

I know Jude very well, and it is a massive accusation to suggest that he made his judgement based on being bias. He is a very very good ref. He has more interest in junior and ail rugby than Munster.

I explicitly avoided making any reference to whether or not the TMO made a squint call, or even whether I felt the decision was right or wrong.

I stand by what I said, that it would be a better set-up to have a guy from one of the branches who isn't involved [i.e. Connacht or Ulster] as the TMO. I have no idea how anybody could disagree with that ... re-read what I wrote before you clamber up on to your moral high horse!

I already apologized for the misunderstanding.

[ceemec]

If that RK non try had been a Munster non try I would have been very dissappointed ,there seemed to be an arm under the ball , think it was rk's but he surely grounded it too. Owens left it open though by his referral question, play should never have got to that end of field though as Owens missed Healy knock on. Re poc kick IMO no intent , awkwardly tried to hack ball away and caught Dk at same time as ball , won't be cited . Hope Dave k is ok .

Sensible enough, red49. I think it's up in the air for the citing. If he's cited, he'll be banned I would be sure as he had no card or penalty against him and it clearly was a kick to the head. It will be mitigated by his concern for DK, good record etc. I don't think the committee can let him walk on the basis of it being accidental as it simply is not in the laws. The opportunity for it to go away is with the citing commissioner. He might well decide it has no case to answer and ignore it. I'd put it at 50/50 though.

[janeymac08]

The TMO – Jude Quinn – is from Munster [source: http://www.munsterrugby.ie/domestic/referees/index.php ].

It's not a great set-up, having a guy from one of the two organizations involved making decisions over whether or not a debatable try was scored. Just avoid it by getting a ref from Connacht or Ulster to be the TMO.

I know Jude very well, and it is a massive accusation to suggest that he made his judgement based on being bias. He is a very very good ref. He has more interest in junior and ail rugby than Munster.

I explicitly avoided making any reference to whether or not the TMO made a squint call, or even whether I felt the decision was right or wrong.

I stand by what I said, that it would be a better set-up to have a guy from one of the branches who isn't involved [i.e. Connacht or Ulster] as the TMO. I have no idea how anybody could disagree with that ... re-read what I wrote before you clamber up on to your moral high horse!

You are always going to get problems though if you are using anyone from the league - Ulster, Welsh, Scottish TOM would probably have preferred if Munster won yesterday. There is also the chance that they go the other way in an effort to be impartial. Remember the Scotland game in the 6Ns when an Irish TMO ruled in wrongly in France's favour which meant that Ireland lost the 6Ns Championship on tries scored (2007).

Video ref is the least prolematic one though because you have to rule on what is visible.

[blockhead]

Hey munster#1! Wazthestory with the low turnout? Do ye not see us as a challenge anymore or are the diehards saving up for the trip to France?

[janeymac08]

If that RK non try had been a Munster non try I would have been very dissappointed ,there seemed to be an arm under the ball , think it was rk's but he surely grounded it too. Owens left it open though by his referral question, play should never have got to that end of field though as Owens missed Healy knock on. Re poc kick IMO no intent , awkwardly tried to hack ball away and caught Dk at same time as ball , won't be cited . Hope Dave k is ok .

Sensible enough, red49. I think it's up in the air for the citing. If he's cited, he'll be banned I would be sure as he had no card or penalty against him and it clearly was a kick to the head. It will be mitigated by his concern for DK, good record etc. I don't think the committee can let him walk on the basis of it being accidental as it simply is not in the laws. The opportunity for it to go away is with the citing commissioner. He might well decide it has no case to answer and ignore it. I'd put it at 50/50 though.

Mafi got the yellow card for reacting badly and Sexton nothing in the game but got cited and suspended for 2 weeks for a deliberate kick to Mafi's head. Going on that, POC has nothing to answer for.

[fourthirtythree]

If that RK non try had been a Munster non try I would have been very dissappointed ,there seemed to be an arm under the ball , think it was rk's but he surely grounded it too. Owens left it open though by his referral question, play should never have got to that end of field though as Owens missed Healy knock on. Re poc kick IMO no intent , awkwardly tried to hack ball away and caught Dk at same time as ball , won't be cited . Hope Dave k is ok .

Word is that Dave K is about and okay. Joe said he'll be out for a few weeks but that's alright.

Intent isn't the issue, nor is whether POC is a great guy (I was only posting yesterday morning about how I hoped he'd captain the lions) but whether what he did was dangerous play or not. I don't think there's an awful lot to discuss in that. And he got Dave before the ball, not at the same time. That would be fairly difficult to do, Dave's head was in between him and the ball.

[janeymac08]

Hey munster#1! Wazthestory with the low turnout? Do ye not see us as a challenge anymore or are the diehards saving up for the trip to France?

Between two big expensive fixtures - or maybe not many Leinster fans travelled - Munster rarely fills Thomond on its own for a league match.

What was the Leinster support like?

[Icarus]

Incidentally I ****ed up my skybox recording. Any ideas as to how long it will take for the match to appear in RTE player?

[blockhead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyLdP9AAB90

I think Munsters next home game should be played in an empty stadium (and I don't mean Musgrave) after this. Utterly disgraceful!
And just a little bit funny since it distracted from hooks verbal excrement.

[TheBear]

Incidentally I ****ed up my skybox recording. Any ideas as to how long it will take for the match to appear in RTE player?

The FAQs say: We aim to make programmes available in the RTÉ Player shortly after broadcast . If a programme is not available the day after broadcast on RTÉ One and RTÉ Two, we may not have the rights to make it available on the RTÉ Player.

[ARCD]

Incidentally I ****ed up my skybox recording. Any ideas as to how long it will take for the match to appear in RTE player?

The FAQs say: We aim to make programmes available in the RTÉ Player shortly after broadcast . If a programme is not available the day after broadcast on RTÉ One and RTÉ Two, we may not have the rights to make it available on the RTÉ Player.

Pro12 games always seem to take 2 or 3 days to go up, not sure why it takes so long. I'd say it'll be up tomorrow and if not should definitely be up on Tuesday

[red49]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyLdP9AAB90

I think Munsters next home game should be played in an empty stadium (and I don't mean Musgrave) after this. Utterly disgraceful!
And just a little bit funny since it distracted from hooks verbal excrement.

Nice Blue Leinster top he is wearing too !

[blockhead]

Maybe its Meinster?

[fourthirtythree]

Yeah, muppet wants to climb up what you gonna do? Not Thomond park's fault. I'd sooner have the odd muppet than security guards like Lansdowne road where BOD's wife couldn't get to him.

Setanta have replay rights for the next day, that delay's RTE's online archive IIRC.

[fogey]

Kearney try -does not matter now. Congratulations to another old fogey for getting there DOC.
Re OConnell kick I had great time for Paul and sympathy for him because of all his injury problems.I have felt that for the last four years he had not been operating at his own performance levels due to his long standing back problem. Then with the last surgery and rehab the real Paulie was back. His performance against Harlequins was very very special-controlled passion and aggression.
On Saturday he was like a spoiled child arguing and disagreeing with the referee and he was obviously on a niggly control knife edge.
Neither he ,nor any other player,has the right to kick at the ball through anothers head. Respect and control are required at all times. An angry invader is dangerous.I just felt that he got dangerously carried away with the praise and welcome back for Paulie and felt he had to move the game on his own. Lost control.
To me he looked and kicked at the ball even though there was a head barring his access to the ball. Only he can say how he intended to not hit the head.
I am very sorry-he is probably the best second row player I have ever seen in an Irish jersey- but if he is not given a ban which indicates that mindless reckless play is being treated seriously I will be sorrier for the game and player protection.
Rugby is a sport.