O'Connell not cited

[Schumi]

Match commentary comments from Owens to Leo Cullen, as Madigan prepared to line-up the penalty after Kearney try turned down: ...

." I though it was too, that's why I asked the second question..."

Did anybody clearly hear what Owens asked to TMO? Was it

"Is there any reason why I cannot award a try"

(the 'second' question in referee parlance) or was it

"Is it a try, Yes or No"

(The 'first' question).

I thought he said something like

If I'd thought it was, I'd have asked the second question...

to Leo. He definitely asked the TMO "try, yes or no".

[LeRouxIsPHat]

As someone who thought that the absolute maximum punishment for Poc should have been 1 week, even I think that reasoning for not citing him is ridiculous.

i don't think he could have gotten a one week ban though, if memory serves and I'm open to correction on this, but didn't the IRB issue a directive stating that when a player is being receiving a suspension from a disciplinary body, mitigation like a good record etc can't take the ban below the minimum level of the entry point - and as the lowest entry point is two weeks...?

Yeah I believe you're right Dave although I'm not 100% sure if it's actually been enforced? Anyway, I had no idea what the minimum entry was tbh, I was just saying what I think he actually deserves. Essentially I felt that he didn't deserve much punishment but it still had to be acknowledged in some way.

[tackle-bag]

Remarkable that Cudmore, one of the filthiest players in European rugby, should have the temerity to weigh in on this issue. He's one of the few players around who actually does set out to injure his opponents on a regular basis and has been cited on God knows how many occasions for foul play.

Munster are going to need to try every trick in the book against Clermont to even stand half a chance in the HC semi-final. I actually think that baiting Cudmore into getting himself sent off might be one of the few lifelines available to them.

[mikerob]

I take your point tackle-bag, I suppose I should have worded it better, my feeling/perception is that a lot of potential citings are not followed up in the derby matches even with independent citing commissioners, who I think are Irish for the Rabo games, and so subject to pressure from on high to do what the IRFU perceive to be best way forward, i.e. not having important players absent for long periods. My perception may not be borne out by the stats tho.

Independent citing commissioners aren't necessarily any better. Have a Welsh, Scottish or English one and they may have an incentive to cite players in advance of big fixtures. Pick SH ones and have a different standard being applied, i.e. confusion. Oh and huge costs.

This may be a stupid question, but does the citing commish need to attend the match?
I wasn't there (in my armchair i was- not a true fan), but biased as I am, i could review the incident with ease. The costs should not be prohibitive.

I could be wrong, but I don't think they need to attend the game. I think the review is done using a recording of the game.

[ribs]

Disciplinary Committees or Judicial Officers shall undertake an
assessment of the seriousness of the Player’s conduct, which constitutes
the offending and categorise the offence as being at the lower end, mid
range or top end of the scale of seriousness in order to identify the
appropriate entry point for consideration of a particular incident(s) where
such incident(s) is expressly covered in Appendix 1. Such assessment of
the seriousness of the Player’s conduct shall be determined by reference to
the following features of offending:
(a) The offending was intentional, that is, committed intentionally or
deliberately;
(b) The offending was reckless, that is the Player knew (or should have
known) there was a risk of committing an act of Illegal and/or Foul
Play;
(c) The gravity of the Player’s actions in relation to the offence:
(i) Nature of actions, manner in which offence committed
including part of body used i.e. fist, elbow, knee or boot;
(ii) The existence of provocation and whether the Player acted in
retaliation and/or self-defence;
(d) The effect of the offending Player’s actions on the victim (i.e. extent
of injury, removal of Player from game);
(e) The effect of offending Player’s actions on the game;
(f) The vulnerability of victim Player including part of victim’s body
involved/affected, position of Player, ability to defend himself;
(g) The level of participation in the offending and level of premeditation;
(h) Whether the conduct of the offending Player was completed or
amounted to an attempt;
(i) Any other feature of the Player’s conduct which constitutes the
offending.

[simonokeeffe]

now I've seen everything, Cudmore complaining about (lack of) citings, obviously still bad blood there and sure to be rekindled soon, especially if journalists start bringing it up to the pair of them

in general the irish sides have a policy of not referring incidents to citing commissioner from interpros

just heard from Bail's dentist that backroom deal was done, no citing and we get Dennis Hurley, DuPreez and 2 tickets to Alone It Stands

[ribs]

..so in my belief (correct me if wrong), there should have been a citing for Reckless foul play as it would have resulted in a red card - whether there was "intention" should have been decided at the hearing. There are other articles that would reduce the ban, so perhaps POC would have been exonerated afterwards or got a 1 day ban, but there should still have been a citing.

[fourthirtythree]

Love the reply from Nathan Hines. Frickin' legend.

That's to Cudmore's tweet by the way.

[mikey]

..so in my belief (correct me if wrong), there should have been a citing for Reckless foul play as it would have resulted in a red card - whether there was "intention" should have been decided at the hearing. There are other articles that would reduce the ban, so perhaps POC would have been exonerated afterwards or got a 1 day ban, but there should still have been a citing.

My thinking exactly - the focus seems to have been on the "intention", but this is to be judged after the citing.....

[mikey]

Love the reply from Nathan Hines. Frickin' legend.

That's to Cudmore's tweet by the way.

Indeed - pure quality!! - wish we could have kept Nathan....

[SilverSurfer]

who is the citing commissioner for this, is he Irish or other?

[TheBear]

who is the citing commissioner for this, is he Irish or other?

A Connacht guy called Eddie Walsh.

Edit to add source: Rabo Pro12 site

[fourthirtythree]

To be honest the entire match day officiating team bar Owens (who had a poor game) should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Both touch judges, the TMO, and now the citing official are a disgrace to their professions.

I haven't seen a worse TMO decision since that great try Ireland didn't score against Italy in Galway. The TJs did their best temple monkey impressions, and the citing officer had no concern for the welfare of players nor for the laws of the game. It's vaguely depressing. I actually can understand why Cudmore could be a little irritated. He might have got the impression that it's not what you do, but who you are, and who your friends are that counts.

He might have got that impression because it's true.

Edited for illiteracy.

[ror]

I understand Eddie Walsh is from Cork

[johng]

To be honest the entire match day officiating team bar Owens (who had a poor game) should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Both touch judges, the TMO, and now the citing official are a disgrace to their professions.

I haven't seen a worse TMO decision since that great try Ireland didn't score against Italy in Galway. The TJs did their best temple monkey impressions, and the citing officer had no concern for the welfare of players nor for the laws of the game. It's vaguely depressing. I actually can understand why Cudmore could be a little irritated. He might have got the impression that it's not what you do, but who you are, and who your friends are that counts.

He might have got that impression because it's true.

Edited for illiteracy.

Was that the one in Ravenhill before the 2007 WC?

[Flash Gordon]

By the look of Turnipfans.com, there'll be no tarmacadam spread anywhere in Munster this afternoon. Most of the larger Limerick off-licences have already started rationing cans of Bulmers; only a dozen cans allowed per customer.

It's honestly nothing to do with him being a Munster player. I'd be surprised if anybody here didn't respect him and secretly wish he was born in Wexford. However, I think people are pissed because
1. Despite the trivialisation of it all Dave not only didn't have the opportunity to defend himself but because he was blindsided he couldn't even brace.
2. Because though there aren't many players who would deliberately go out to injure somebody, players do stupid and reckless things in the heat of a game. These include honest and decent players like oconnell or indeed Odriscoll or Hayes. And if you do something stupid and dangerous on a rugby pitch there are consequences unfortunately.

God knows the game is hard and dangerous enough without allowing this kind of stuff to happen unchecked.

[firhousefan]

By the look of Turnipfans.com, there'll be no tarmacadam spread anywhere in Munster this afternoon. Most of the larger Limerick off-licences have already started rationing cans of Bulmers; only a dozen cans allowed per customer.

It's honestly nothing to do with him being a Munster player. I'd be surprised if anybody here didn't respect him and secretly wish he was born in Wexford. However, I think people are pissed because
1. Despite the trivialisation of it all Dave not only didn't have the opportunity to defend himself but because he was blindsided he couldn't even brace.
2. Because though there aren't many players who would deliberately go out to injure somebody, players do stupid and reckless things in the heat of a game. These include honest and decent players like oconnell or indeed Odriscoll or Hayes. And if you do something stupid and dangerous on a rugby pitch there are consequences unfortunately.

God knows the game is hard and dangerous enough without allowing this kind of stuff to happen unchecked.

Have a read of the Newstalk Sport report on what happened on Saturday.

However, before you read it - pretend that you didn't see the incident.

Now read it - link below (select O'connell escapes citing on the right hand side if the article doesnt come up)
http://www.newstalk.ie/reader/47.302.3 ... how_list/

REvisionism is the curse of the Irish media.

[Sauvignon Blank]

St Paulie it is.

[red49]

And here is a tweet from the guy who seems to be forgotten in the hysteria around poc over on this site .
glad to see that Dave Kearney is ok. i already gave my take on the incident, it was an awkward looking kick but not for one instant do i think there was any intent to kick DK on purpose, it was accidental.
time to move on.

Dave Kearney ‏@kearney_dave 22h Thanks 2 everybody for their kind msgs of concern!Feeling a lot better today.Grt 2 get the win down in Thomond.serious support as per usual!

[Broken Wing]

And here is a tweet from the guy who seems to be forgotten in the hysteria around poc over on this site .

He's clearly still concussed.