Dave Cahill wrote:
I don't see how it could be reasonable though?. We all watch the Rugby Championship, most of us watch the Currie Cup, we know when those games are on and when the Tournaments finish. We were in the same situation with Ollie Le Roux and with Richardt Strauss, who arrived in October and November respectively due to CC commitments. De Villiers, for example, didn't make his Munster debut until the end of September and that was after a shorter three team tournament. We all knew that Kirchner was the Springbok fullback and I don't think it was reasonable either for anyone to believe that he was taking a sabbatical - South Africans historically haven't and their Union have had no problem selecting players from either hemisphere in the past.
It was reported that he wouldn't be playing in the Currie Cup by more than one source.
http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12- ... 81066.html
'Reports suggest Leinster are keen to secure an early release for the fullback so he can link-up with the rest of the side in time for their pre-season programme.'
So that's why people thought he could be with us earlier.
As for the international side, given the fact that he's moving, isn't exactly flavour of the month in the Republic, and SA have at least two younger, better FB options, it's hardly unreasonable for one to presume that he'd be with us and stay with us early.
Are yourself and Donny combining in some sort of off season 'self righteous off'?!
Pointing out some fairly massively glaring holes in a thought process that leads to an entirely erroneous assumption based on almost no evidence whatsoever is hardly being self righteous (though I am aware how self righteous the previous sentence sounds). To take the example in the report you posted, it completely ignores the Rugby Championship, doesn't even mention it, assuming that the Springbok full back, a massive favourite of the Springbok coach for both 'club' and country, would be entirely dropped from the Springbok squad by that coach! I mean c'mon, thats really poor reporting.
Okay Dave- you have successfully diverted the thread's point on to the reasonableness of assuming that Zane would be here at the start of the season. But let's park that for now.
Do you agree that the fact that he won't (reasonable or not...) is a matter that should bother us, with our thin resources in the back three? That's the issue that Donny doesn't think worthy of concern.
"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
I have to say Zane for me is a good signing when you look at the fact that International players will be away for Feb/March even before you consider injuries picked up in October and the November internationals as well. He will become a very useful asset from December onwards I would say.
Comparisons to Isa is a nonrunner, in that Isa was a player with no International obligations but was of a standard higher than most Internationals. A bit of fortunate but good business - albeit written off by most on here before he arrived.
"Munster could join the French League, or an expanded English / British league."
I'd far rather he were here, now, but he isn't and never was likely to be. I think hes a good player and will be closer to the XV than the 23 when he does arrive, but we're not entirely bereft of talent without him. The real question at this point in time is how soon McFadden will be allowed back after his exertions during the summer. We still have Kearney minor, Hudson, Fitzgerald in the senior squad along with Boyle, Berne and SCM in the academy. Whilst some of those might be lacking in experience, they aren't lacking in quality. The start of a season is always a bit funny for us, we never do all that well at the beginning of a season, between the conditioning curve guys are on and the lack of players after summer tours etc, we don't take a lot of points. But one area that does stand us in good stead is that younger players often get a chance in these games which gives them experience when they are fed back into the team around 6 nations time. I don't expect this season to be any different in that regard
Ya, I always like the start of the season to see who has done the work over the summer and who can step up. There are always one or two surprises.
I saw Roux the other day and Toner, Roux looks like he has done the weights over the summer.
Toner looked his usual.
Players who were in the US/Canada and Georgia are about 2 weeks behind in pre season. Lions are 5 weeks behind. Healy is a week or 2 ahead of the rest of the Lions. Not sure about the other 4.
So I would hope that we would have the Georgian lads straight away on the 6th of Sept. (The 2 pre season games used to see all the academy and injured players in action) With the USA lads benching.
I hope MOC has looked at our slow starting record and made it a target to change that.
Our Lions coming back should give us a boost for Munster and the HC.
Dave Cahill wrote:I'd far rather he were here, now, but he isn't and never was likely to be. I think hes a good player and will be closer to the XV than the 23 when he does arrive, but we're not entirely bereft of talent without him. The real question at this point in time is how soon McFadden will be allowed back after his exertions during the summer. We still have Kearney minor, Hudson, Fitzgerald in the senior squad along with Boyle, Berne and SCM in the academy. Whilst some of those might be lacking in experience, they aren't lacking in quality. The start of a season is always a bit funny for us, we never do all that well at the beginning of a season, between the conditioning curve guys are on and the lack of players after summer tours etc, we don't take a lot of points. But one area that does stand us in good stead is that younger players often get a chance in these games which gives them experience when they are fed back into the team around 6 nations time. I don't expect this season to be any different in that regard
Reid played at Full back a bit last year - could come into consideration there. But agree with your post above.
"Munster could join the French League, or an expanded English / British league."
tones wrote:
Reid played at Full back a bit last year - could come into consideration there. But agree with your post above.
Gopperth can play 15. Madigan too (although not at the same time obviously) Both Kearneys, Fitz, Hudson, Dardis in the Academy possibly a few more too.
We should manage. Numbers are the issue in the back three, not who can play where.
It is messy having to wait for a player like Zane. It reduces his value as he will not have these warm up games and pre season to get familiar with the guys around him and the way the team plays. I can see him appearing on the wing for a while because it requires less knowledge of systems.
Dave Cahill wrote:
I don't see how it could be reasonable though?. We all watch the Rugby Championship, most of us watch the Currie Cup, we know when those games are on and when the Tournaments finish. We were in the same situation with Ollie Le Roux and with Richardt Strauss, who arrived in October and November respectively due to CC commitments. De Villiers, for example, didn't make his Munster debut until the end of September and that was after a shorter three team tournament. We all knew that Kirchner was the Springbok fullback and I don't think it was reasonable either for anyone to believe that he was taking a sabbatical - South Africans historically haven't and their Union have had no problem selecting players from either hemisphere in the past.
It was reported that he wouldn't be playing in the Currie Cup by more than one source.
http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12- ... 81066.html
'Reports suggest Leinster are keen to secure an early release for the fullback so he can link-up with the rest of the side in time for their pre-season programme.'
So that's why people thought he could be with us earlier.
As for the international side, given the fact that he's moving, isn't exactly flavour of the month in the Republic, and SA have at least two younger, better FB options, it's hardly unreasonable for one to presume that he'd be with us and stay with us early.
Are yourself and Donny combining in some sort of off season 'self righteous off'?!
Pointing out some fairly massively glaring holes in a thought process that leads to an entirely erroneous assumption based on almost no evidence whatsoever is hardly being self righteous (though I am aware how self righteous the previous sentence sounds). To take the example in the report you posted, it completely ignores the Rugby Championship, doesn't even mention it, assuming that the Springbok full back, a massive favourite of the Springbok coach for both 'club' and country, would be entirely dropped from the Springbok squad by that coach! I mean c'mon, thats really poor reporting.
The IT reported that:
'High performance manager of the Bulls, Xander Janse van Rensburg, said: “We understand that an earlier release might be requested, but it is up to the board to approve that or not.'
It's obviously not going to happen now, but to say there was 'no evidence whatsoever' that he might be with us early is just wrong. There was an obvious chance that he may be released from the Bulls, and that he may have travelled north at that stage.
Don't let that stop your bombasting though wha?
I'd hate for this site to go down the track of a few voices shouting loudly and obnixously and setting the tone for everyone else, like a certain southern fansite equivalent, just tone it down a bit there fella?
wixfjord wrote:
The IT reported that:
'High performance manager of the Bulls, Xander Janse van Rensburg, said: “We understand that an earlier release might be requested, but it is up to the board to approve that or not.'
It's obviously not going to happen now, but to say there was 'no evidence whatsoever' that he might be with us early is just wrong. There was an obvious chance that he may be released from the Bulls, and that he may have travelled north at that stage.
Don't let that stop your bombasting though wha?
I'd hate for this site to go down the track of a few voices shouting loudly and obnixously and setting the tone for everyone else, like a certain southern fansite equivalent, just tone it down a bit there fella?
Nah, you're all right, I'll keep doing my thing, you keep doing yours, fella.
wixfjord wrote:
It was reported that he wouldn't be playing in the Currie Cup by more than one source.
http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12- ... 81066.html
'Reports suggest Leinster are keen to secure an early release for the fullback so he can link-up with the rest of the side in time for their pre-season programme.'
So that's why people thought he could be with us earlier.
As for the international side, given the fact that he's moving, isn't exactly flavour of the month in the Republic, and SA have at least two younger, better FB options, it's hardly unreasonable for one to presume that he'd be with us and stay with us early.
Are yourself and Donny combining in some sort of off season 'self righteous off'?!
Pointing out some fairly massively glaring holes in a thought process that leads to an entirely erroneous assumption based on almost no evidence whatsoever is hardly being self righteous (though I am aware how self righteous the previous sentence sounds). To take the example in the report you posted, it completely ignores the Rugby Championship, doesn't even mention it, assuming that the Springbok full back, a massive favourite of the Springbok coach for both 'club' and country, would be entirely dropped from the Springbok squad by that coach! I mean c'mon, thats really poor reporting.
The IT reported that:
'High performance manager of the Bulls, Xander Janse van Rensburg, said: “We understand that an earlier release might be requested, but it is up to the board to approve that or not.'
It's obviously not going to happen now, but to say there was 'no evidence whatsoever' that he might be with us early is just wrong. There was an obvious chance that he may be released from the Bulls, and that he may have travelled north at that stage.
Don't let that stop your bombasting though wha?
I'd hate for this site to go down the track of a few voices shouting loudly and obnixously and setting the tone for everyone else, like a certain southern fansite equivalent, just tone it down a bit there fella?
Those who expected him here earlier were woefully out of tune wth how these things work, Dave was correct, suck it up, Fella.
Ok, so he's not here. Opportunity time for a younger player. Ultimately this is not a long term problem (at least in my head) so manage with what we have. Its also a really good chance for the coach to show how he copes with player shortages and a younger player to get an opportunity.
I like Kirchner, unsure about his fit with Leinster, but same as Isa, he deserves the time and support to get there if he can.
In the meantime, even if we start slow and lose one or two, better then than the end of the season.
Im still waiting for the first Coach has lost the dressing room comment... Shouldnt be too long now.
Dave Cahill wrote:I'd far rather he were here, now, but he isn't and never was likely to be. I think hes a good player and will be closer to the XV than the 23 when he does arrive, but we're not entirely bereft of talent without him. The real question at this point in time is how soon McFadden will be allowed back after his exertions during the summer. We still have Kearney minor, Hudson, Fitzgerald in the senior squad along with Boyle, Berne and SCM in the academy. Whilst some of those might be lacking in experience, they aren't lacking in quality. The start of a season is always a bit funny for us, we never do all that well at the beginning of a season, between the conditioning curve guys are on and the lack of players after summer tours etc, we don't take a lot of points. But one area that does stand us in good stead is that younger players often get a chance in these games which gives them experience when they are fed back into the team around 6 nations time. I don't expect this season to be any different in that regard
johng wrote:It was reported in the papers and also from a normally very good source that he would be here early.
That is the reason for this thread and my gnashing of teeth.
I think Donny is morphing into George Hook. Taking controversial opinions for the crack and coming out swinging if anyone disagrees.
No, just honest, consistent opinions. Never rated the guy and said so when we were first linked to him. Anytime I've seen him play for South Africa, he's struck me as average at best and decidedly fortunate to have earned as many caps as he has. You want me to backtrack now just because we went and signed him?
So I'm really not the pushed when he actually arrives. Yeah he might be useful at Pro12 level as cover when the main guys are away, but I'm actually looking forward to seeing some of young guys in the back three like Hudson, Byrne and Coghlan Murray given a shot.
Not my fault if the herd on here can't handle a dissenting opinion. You'd swear one or two were about to burst into tears.
Yeah, the sooner we have a fecken' game or two to give us something real to fall out over the better!
