The future of northern hemisphere rugby

[StuF]

With the taffies chasing another anglo-loving nosectomy it's time to rethink the whole game here. As David Moffett repeatedly pointed out as he was leaving the WRU, we really need a northern hemisphere season structure which seperates international, european and domestic competitions the way they do down south.

We currently look at European soccer for the structure but they can play a euro game mid-week and then a domestic game at the weekend which just isn't feasible in rugby. Another of the big problems the CL has at this time of year is maintaining interest while the six-nations is on and in addition a lot of us are too bloody excited about the prospect of long-weekends in france in a few weeks to be too bothered with a beach rugby bore-fest like we had on Sunday. (Saying that, for suckers like me, it was great to have a day out in Donnybrook especially as I missed the Borders game.)

It takes a bit of getting the head around but think on this:

Three 12 team conferences - French, English and CL+Italian. We would have 3/4 Irish provinces, 4 welsh regions, 2/3 Scottish pro-teams and 2/3 Italian pro-teams giving an 11-week domestic season split by the autumn internationals. You can then divide off into tiered 2x18-team or 3x12-team european competition to be played after the six nations leading to a huge end of May finale.

The difference with the current Heineken Cup finals is that we only have 3 rounds after the six nations so the neutral interest isn't as great as it could be. We also need an alcohol-free sponsor to get the French more interested and actually allow a final in France. Not easy for them to see the point of a competition which has had two all-French finals in 3 years and always being played in Britain or Ireland.

The sponsorship potential for a streamlined competition like this is massive and as a result the money-making potential for the clubs and unions will be similarly increased. The result is higher level competition with less danger of player burnout in the long-run.

OK so it takes a lot of changes and a lot of people will gripe about traditions and loss of autonomy etc. but one of the most basic principals here is to avoid mixing competitions. In rugby we need to raise the profile of the game. Most non-diehards don't know when CL matches are being played and as a result don't care. As long as that situation remains, the crowds will never come and the game is doomed.... doomed!!!

[CM]

Stu

It's fairly easy to figure out a season with the current leagues. Where I mention CL substitute French or English leagues:

- CL running from September to November. Try and get half the games in.
- November internationals
- Conclusion of the CL. Bear in mind that if we can play two games in 5 days at Christmas it can be done on other occasions too.
- Start of HEC. Play it over the course of 10-12 weeks. I'd have the 6 pool games in a row followed by a free weekend. QF and SF in a row and final after a rest weekend. If needs be use the free weekends for domestic games.
- Once all that's over play the 6N.

Taking next season's calendar as a template if we started the CL on the 1st September we'd have 10 weeks before the Nov internationals. Use the 8 or so weeks after the Nov games to conclude the CL. That's 10 more games in 8 weeks. Doable. So starting the weekend of the 20th Jan 2007 11 weeks later brings us to the 31st March. Starting the 6N on the 14th April has it concluding in plenty of time by the middle to end of May.

There's plenty of spare weekend's in there for countries to still complete their own schedules. The French championship wouldn't obviously end in January but since they play pretty much on every free weekend it doesn't really matter what time of the year the 6N is. All I'm doing is pushing some domestic games and the HEC knockout stages to before the 6N and pushing the 6N to the end of the season. There's still time afterwards for the French and English to have their playoffs.

No seriously obvious negatives other than the possibility of the 6N taking place with weaker squads due to injuries after the long season. One way to overcome that would be to leave the 6N where it is but to play the HEC en bloc after the 6N. Basically the main problem I have with the season is the HEC break. Having a CL break isn't as much of an issue because all the teams are in the same boat.

[epaddy]

I cant say I would be in favour of that Stu. A proper structured season and no Italains devaluing the CL further. Put 2 or 3 Italain teams in the French 2nd divsion and allow them to work there way up

[StuF]

I cant say I would be in favour of that Stu. A proper structured season and no Italains devaluing the CL further. Put 2 or 3 Italain teams in the French 2nd divsion and allow them to work there way up

Remember that the Italians currently have a top league of 10 teams with most of their best players in France - sound familiar? We all know that Ireland, Scotland or Wales can't support 10 domestic professional clubs so why should we judge the current Italian standard when they are working in a system that we can't. Look how long it took welsh international rugby to respond to regional teams and improve beyond recognition.

BTW - the italians in our competition is a guarantee and will happen within two years so we'd better get used to the idea. The only question is how the Celtic-Italian League will interact with England and France.

[epaddy]

I cant say I would be in favour of that Stu. A proper structured season and no Italains devaluing the CL further. Put 2 or 3 Italain teams in the French 2nd divsion and allow them to work there way up

Remember that the Italians currently have a top league of 10 teams with most of their best players in France - sound familiar? We all know that Ireland, Scotland or Wales can't support 10 domestic professional clubs so why should we judge the current Italian standard when they are working in a system that we can't. Look how long it took welsh international rugby to respond to regional teams and improve beyond recognition.

BTW - the italians in our competition is a guarantee and will happen within two years so we'd better get used to the idea. The only question is how the Celtic-Italian League will interact with England and France.

Too much travelling as it is Stu, plus another 6 or so games a year would be very hard on the players

[jezzer]

Is such drastic surgery needed?

Condensing the HEC into a short period would devalue it. part of the attraction of the competition is how teams evolve over the season and their fortunes in Europe change as a result.

As far as I can see, the only scheduling change that really needs to happen is to move the 6N to the end of the season and ensure all domestic/european competitions are over by then. Providing the 6N finished early enough to avoid competing with major summer sporting events, the rest would be a question of tweaking match schedules.

italy will need to sort out their club structure before joining the CL, but there's no reason to suggest their inclusion would hurt the spectacle. On the contrary, bigger TV audiences and bigger sponsorship potential.

[Oscar]

I'd have no problem with the 6N being moved to the back end of the season, and play the domestic leagues and HEC concurrently, with the HEC final the weekend before the 6N. But you might need to shorten the domestic leagues to do this and not have players absolutely knackered by the time the 6N comes around. And the Welsh clubs want MORE home games, not less.

[glic]

Is such drastic surgery needed?

Condensing the HEC into a short period would devalue it. part of the attraction of the competition is how teams evolve over the season and their fortunes in Europe change as a result.

As far as I can see, the only scheduling change that really needs to happen is to move the 6N to the end of the season and ensure all domestic/european competitions are over by then. Providing the 6N finished early enough to avoid competing with major summer sporting events, the rest would be a question of tweaking match schedules.

italy will need to sort out their club structure before joining the CL, but there's no reason to suggest their inclusion would hurt the spectacle. On the contrary, bigger TV audiences and bigger sponsorship potential.

I think it's been mentioned on this board before -the BBC won't be too happy with the 6N being moved cos it fills a big sporting gap in the schedules at this time of year. And it's the TV money that calls the shots.

[Uncle Mort]

The main problem is that with the exception of England and France the rest of the 6 Nations Unions are too small to go it alone. Ireland and Scotland realise that their future lies together, Wales will hang on in there until it can get into bed with England and at the moment Italy are left out in the cold. Italy should be brought into the CL which will give the Welsh more home matches, and the rest of us will get continuity. The season then should essentially be structured with the CL first - leading to qualification for the HEC which follows with the 6N at the end. This as mentioned above though will not be accepted by the BBC who ultimately pay a fair bit towards the cost. Only the top CL teams, regardless of country would qualify for the HEC proper with the lower finishing teams entering the Parker Pen and Shield as appropriate. This would also mean that the CL would be a proper league with the matches counting towards something tangible.

[CM]

The main problem is that with the exception of England and France the rest of the 6 Nations Unions are too small to go it alone. Ireland and Scotland realise that their future lies together, Wales will hang on in there until it can get into bed with England and at the moment Italy are left out in the cold. Italy should be brought into the CL which will give the Welsh more home matches, and the rest of us will get continuity. The season then should essentially be structured with the CL first - leading to qualification for the HEC which follows with the 6N at the end. This as mentioned above though will not be accepted by the BBC who ultimately pay a fair bit towards the cost. Only the top CL teams, regardless of country would qualify for the HEC proper with the lower finishing teams entering the Parker Pen and Shield as appropriate. This would also mean that the CL would be a proper league with the matches counting towards something tangible.

Good call.

Short term I'd like the CL to lobby ERC to have the HEC QFs taking place at the earliest in mid-April. At least that would give our teams a level playing field. I know not all CL teams are affected as bad as Munster and Leinster but realistically the CL teams with the most internationals will be the ones making the QFs.

[upfront_1979]

Plus having the 6 nations at the end of the season means the International teams will be more settled going on there summer tours which can only be a good thing.

[Oscar]

upfront,

Then you'd need a bigger gap between the HEC and 6N, and at some point you're going to start eating into the off-season.

[sewa]

The future of NH rugby is Red.

[Uncle Mort]

The future of NH rugby is Red.

the future of NH rugby can not be taken as read as there are so many imponderables. True Wales have taken a few steps forward but they've taken many more back. This of course is one of the things which holds us all back - how we are effectively stalled by Welsh internal politics. And as well all know the welsh want to constantly get into bed with the English. The English and French probably have more of a say than you seem to think too.

[sewa]

The future of NH rugby is Red.

the future of NH rugby can not be taken as read as there are so many imponderables. True Wales have taken a few steps forward but they've taken many more back. This of course is one of the things which holds us all back - how we are effectively stalled by Welsh internal politics. And as well all know the welsh want to constantly get into bed with the English. The English and French probably have more of a say than you seem to think too.

Touche.