Kearney: Love/Hate

[simonokeeffe]

One of the best parts of being in the south stand, other than finding out youre in front of Bails and potentially his doctor, is Girv said golden rule of fullbackery is defensively to always stay in line with the ball and applying that to players. Its amazing how often fullbacks dont and how often it would have prevented tries

[TrapperChamonix]

Ask yourself this, "would I prefer that Kearney missed a high ball but made a try-saving tackle?" If the answer is yes, Kearney is not the best FB in Europe. If you answer no, then you work for Sky Sports.

That's like asking someone have they stopped beating the wife. No possible way to answer it.

I would dispute the assertion that last ditch tackling is more important that catching the ball. Not to say it is not important, but at elite level (as opposed to club or school/ youths) it much harder to expose repeatedly. But if the full back can't catch the ball then the team will be unmercifully exposed all day long. Think of HCup games of Leinster v Wasps (RDS) or Munster v Gloucester (TP with Henry Paul at FB). Maybe having seen Ireland produce FB's over the years who couldn't catch a cold, I've come to treasure any who can catch the ball. Personal favourite was Rodney O'Donnell in his all too brief career.

[ceemec]

One of the best parts of being in the south stand, other than finding out youre in front of Bails and potentially his doctor, is Girv said golden rule of fullbackery is defensively to always stay in line with the ball and applying that to players. Its amazing how often fullbacks dont and how often it would have prevented tries

A largely unnoticed trait. Kearney is really good at this. There was a clearing kick the other day in the first half from Cardiff that looked like it would skittle down the field. The camera panned out and Kearney appeared and took the ball on the full on the run. It goes completely unnoticed quite often but it's the difference between having possession at your own 10m line or beyond the opposition 10m line if you can take a kick like that. Halfpenny was shown up a few minutes before that for his positioning when a kick bounced into touch with him caught out. He's clearly the better full back at the moment but when we talk about our full back being the last line of defence I include positioning and fielding of clearing kicks in that. The full back should be mopping everything up back there and getting the ball back to his pack up the field.

[fourthirtythree]

One of the best parts of being in the south stand, other than finding out youre in front of Bails and potentially his doctor, is Girv said golden rule of fullbackery is defensively to always stay in line with the ball and applying that to players. Its amazing how often fullbacks dont and how often it would have prevented tries

A largely unnoticed trait. Kearney is really good at this. There was a clearing kick the other day in the first half from Cardiff that looked like it would skittle down the field. The camera panned out and Kearney appeared and took the ball on the full on the run. It goes completely unnoticed quite often but it's the difference between having possession at your own 10m line or beyond the opposition 10m line if you can take a kick like that. Halfpenny was shown up a few minutes before that for his positioning when a kick bounced into touch with him caught out. He's clearly the better full back at the moment but when we talk about our full back being the last line of defence I include positioning and fielding of clearing kicks in that. The full back should be mopping everything up back there and getting the ball back to his pack up the field.

Precisely the kind of thing I was pointing out in my post above. It's the reason that Kearney is picked if fit ahead of Madigan who tackles much better: he's a full back. The defence is not only last ditch tackles, you have to defend the space, stop attacks before they start by not leaving the gap, and defend against kicks being tried in the first place as well as the spectacular fields which go on the Sky showreel.

We were murdered last year by people kicking at us. The media just realised Kearney was a poor tackler 2 years ago (after ignoring it when he was their golden child for some reason) and suddenly he becomes a bad player.

Seriously, watching our season last year how could anyone doubt Kearney's importance to the team?

[jezzer]

For the record (again), I think Kearney is very good at a lot of aspects. There are few people on the planet better at fielding balls.

I'm happy to concede that there are games where we would have won with him on the pitch. But there are also games we lost directly because he can't tackle or position himself as the scramble defender. RK is built to be a good tackler but he cops out of them. It's the fact that he doesn't really have an excuse not to put his head in there for his teammates that I find disappointing.

By all means Kearney is a good FB who is very good at some stuff and even outstanding at aspects. But a non-tackling FB just can't be called great, imo.

[OTT]

I think with Kearney the thing is he gives ammunition to those who want to have a go with some of the pathetic attempts he makes at tackling and those who have bigged him up through the years (ie most of the people on here) feel a bit let down that after all these years as a pro where he should be almost the complete player this deficiency in his game has never improved. The guy was destined for greatness (in rugby terms) ever since his Clongowes days its a major pity to me that his tackling has not improved (and sometimes appears worse then when he was younger) through all these years. Still by far the best we have currently for Leinster and Ireland hopefully Kirchener will provide competion at Leinster and Henshaw or Jones can in the immediate future for ireland it can all only be good.

[johng]

I feel that both sides of this argument are not really far away from each other. Just one side are saying He's a great player who doesn't always tackle well, and the other side are saying because he always doesn't tackle well he can't be considered a great player.

Two sets of people looking at the same events standing in slightly different positions init?

[Logorrhea]

I feel that both sides of this argument are not really far away from each other. Just one side are saying He's a great player who doesn't always tackle well, and the other side are saying because he always doesn't tackle well he can't be considered a great player.

Two sets of people looking at the same events standing in slightly different positions init?

Indeed, that's pretty much it. Hes a good player (he isn't a great) that wont tackle, and I'm looking forward to seeing him compete for his place against other good players who will tackle.

[neiliog93]

His man-on-man tackling is very poor, I think everyone agrees on that. It has always been the case - think of Beattie for Scotland in 2010, Tuqiri in 2009 etc etc. The argument here is how important that skill is for a fullback.

Fullbacks are the least likely players on the pitch to make a tackle, so it's very possible to go through a series of games without being exposed due to the low number of tackles they have to make. However, when they are exposed, it's very bad, because it almost always leads to a try.

So with Kearney, we get a man who is quality under the high ball, (usually) a good field kicker, reads the game well in terms of defensive positioning, passes well when entering the line, has good pace and generally makes the right decisions both offensively and defensively. Due to his dodgy tackling, we will concede a try every seven or eight games.

While there's no excuse for not tackling and he needs to work on it, based on the equation above he's worth it when on form. When his other good attributes are not present (i.e when he's off form) he's probably not worth it anymore. At the moment, he's doing all the good things I;ve listed above except the field kicking.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

For the record (again), I think Kearney is very good at a lot of aspects. There are few people on the planet better at fielding balls.

I'm happy to concede that there are games where we would have won with him on the pitch. But there are also games we lost directly because he can't tackle or position himself as the scramble defender. RK is built to be a good tackler but he cops out of them. It's the fact that he doesn't really have an excuse not to put his head in there for his teammates that I find disappointing.

By all means Kearney is a good FB who is very good at some stuff and even outstanding at aspects. But a non-tackling FB just can't be called great, imo.

Speaking of teammates, that's something I've always been curious about. Would his teammates not give him major bollockings when he makes a pathetic attempt to tackle? I'd have thought Bod in particular would have given out to him severely enough that he'd have to throw himself into things by now.

[Logorrhea]

I'd have thought Bod in particular would have given out to him severely enough that he'd have to throw himself into things by now.

Or just avoid the tackles altogether

So with Kearney, we get a man who is quality under the high ball, (usually) a good field kicker, reads the game well in terms of defensive positioning, passes well when entering the line, has good pace and generally makes the right decisions both offensively and defensively. Due to his dodgy tackling, we will concede a try every seven or eight games.

Or if you base it on recent form, you could say we have a man who is pretty awesome under the high ball, hasn't kicked very well in a year or so, positions himself well to catch the high balls, avoids tackles like the plague (see brilliant positioning skills), doesn't actually pass it that much, runs into touch with the ball a lot, is very handsome, has bright orange boots, is a sponsors dream.

I can see why people are dismissing Kirchner and Dave Kearney so easily.

[Morf]

Or if you base it on recent form, you could say we have a man who is pretty awesome under the high ball, hasn't kicked very well in a year or so, positions himself well to catch the high balls, avoids tackles like the plague (see brilliant positioning skills), doesn't actually pass it that much, runs into touch with the ball a lot, is very handsome, has bright orange boots, is a sponsors dream.

I can see why people are dismissing Kirchner and Dave Kearney so easily.

I'd agree with this.

[JB1973]

Lets look at the facts, Kearney is a Double Lion, has won a grand slam, Heineken cups and has been voted ERC Player of the Year . Now that is some CV and clearly shows he has been a quality player over a number of years and that is beyond dispute.

For a spell he was easily the best full back in Europe, he was superb under the high ball, picked great lines , had a Monster boot on him and his positional play was excellent.
He does have his faults (is there such a thing as the perfect player ?) his one on one tackling has been found wanting at times but his positional play and his speed generally made sure he was rarely isolated enough for this to be much of an issue.

Over the last 2 years or so he has suffered a lot with injuries, which have seen him lose a bit of that pace, (which has probably seen him get in more one on one defensive situations) some of the distance on his kicking plus with no real competition for his slot maybe he has rested on his laurels a little bit?

It could be the arrival of Kirchner is just what he needs to get him back to his best?

In short he is not as good as he was but he is still a very good full back and if you don't want him, he will have no shortage of suitors

[artaneboy]

I feel that both sides of this argument are not really far away from each other. Just one side are saying He's a great player who doesn't always tackle well, and the other side are saying because he always doesn't tackle well he can't be considered a great player.

Two sets of people looking at the same events standing in slightly different positions init?

JohnG- "The Voice of Reason!"

Now lets all hope he can get back to form on all the important aspects of being a full back.

We know he can!

[meathman3]

I feel that both sides of this argument are not really far away from each other. Just one side are saying He's a great player who doesn't always tackle well, and the other side are saying because he always doesn't tackle well he can't be considered a great player.

Two sets of people looking at the same events standing in slightly different positions init?

JohnG- "The Voice of Reason!"

Now lets all hope he can get back to form on all the important aspects of being a full back.

We know he can!

He certainly can but is he motivated to do so - having being leinster and ireland's best player in 2012 he watched captaincy being handed to a player who didn't make an effort for 2yrs - also worry sob will lose motivation being stifled at 7.

[Sea_point]

For the record (again), I think Kearney is very good at a lot of aspects. There are few people on the planet better at fielding balls.

I'm happy to concede that there are games where we would have won with him on the pitch. But there are also games we lost directly because he can't tackle or position himself as the scramble defender. RK is built to be a good tackler but he cops out of them. It's the fact that he doesn't really have an excuse not to put his head in there for his teammates that I find disappointing.

By all means Kearney is a good FB who is very good at some stuff and even outstanding at aspects. But a non-tackling FB just can't be called great, imo.

He's a great fielder of a ball, runs the ball back well on occasion without really hurting opposition defensive line, an average to poor passer and a complete non-tackler...
So no, he's not a great full back, he'd need to be great at two and good at the other two at least....

That effort on Earl's tonight was shameful. In a game everyone knew was going to be won and lost on small margins he let his team-mates down again.

[Morf]

I call Dagg in Full Back top trumps!

[leinster4life13]

I think with Kearney the thing is he gives ammunition to those who want to have a go with some of the pathetic attempts he makes at tackling and those who have bigged him up through the years (ie most of the people on here) feel a bit let down that after all these years as a pro where he should be almost the complete player this deficiency in his game has never improved. The guy was destined for greatness (in rugby terms) ever since his Clongowes days its a major pity to me that his tackling has not improved (and sometimes appears worse then when he was younger) through all these years. Still by far the best we have currently for Leinster and Ireland hopefully Kirchener will provide competion at Leinster and Henshaw or Jones can in the immediate future for ireland it can all only be good.

Kirchner is demonstrably worse a tackler than RK, as evinced by his poor efforts yesterday against UnZee, we have essentially stocked up on two defensively poor FB's, but hey they can kick and catch right?

[Raydollard]

I think that Dave Kearney may make a good fullback. He has what is required and could get more time there than last season when he was doing well before injury.

[artaneboy]

I think that Dave Kearney may make a good fullback. He has what is required and could get more time there than last season when he was doing well before being kicked in the head in a totally non dangerous or careless way.

Clarified that for us all!