Are you seriously telling me that if you had hundreds of millions of euro at your disposal you wouldn't love to be in the position to spend some of it turning the team you've supported all your life into the best team in Europe by bringing some of the best players in the world to your town.
Rubbish DB, you'd do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday - I know I would, that would certainly float my boat. The only difference between you and me and pretty much everyone else here and MB is that he had that opportunity and took it.
Well if I did, I'd like to think I'd handle myself with a little more dignity than this obnoxious little jerk. And you're going well off topic now.
As for your decoding of his message as being an attack on Owens's relationship with Munster, well that's a ludicrous stretch. Owens reffed us for the quarters, semis and final in 09. His actual words "We realised that there was a referee, every time he refereed Leinster, they won. He refereed them in the quarters, semi and final."
But as you seem to love him, you're prepared to "decode" this as being irrelevent to Leinster? Pull the other one!
Edna Kenny wrote:The headline is unfair as it was never Leinster negotiating with Sexton. Anyway, I think the lesson has been learned by the IRFU who have done well to keep SOB and Heaslip so let's all move on! There are so many what if's there it's ridiculous. What Mick Galwey's warm up in 2000 has to do with how Leinster entered the stadium is beyond me. We were level at half time so were hardly intimidated.
Speaking as someone who was there, the atmosphere was far less "febrile" than Thornley had made out. It wasn't anything like as noisy as Clermont and we were able to make plenty of noise to support the lads. The Toulon fans were actually a little edgy and they only really got going when the second try when in. Then the papers started flying and they went mad, but it's just noise, nothing intimidating at all. Jamie certainly wasn't using it as an excuse in this interview.
Exactly! Only got really noisy after the second try. Great atmosphere but far from imtimidating. What gets written in the papers tends to bear little resemblance to reality.
Toulon fan wrote:Typical jealous post of ignorant seeing only superstars names.
Toulon got one of the most productive rugby academy in France, one of the best U20 and U18 teams, and last season Toulon was the french club using the more of french players on the 23 list.
You can count by yourself if you like.
Paul Goze the LNR CEO made it count 2 times and barely has a stroke when he understood that. And Serge fell pregnant again.
sid wrote:If it were me, I'd personally prefer to spend the money on developing local talent through things like schools, an academy structure, facilities etc. I think that sort of investment would be more beneficial for rugby in the region than bringing in so many imports. Maybe he is spending money on those things as well; I'm not sure. You could probably also argue that the success he's brought has significantly boosted interest in rugby in Toulon, and that will result in more kids playing. I'd just like to hope he has more of a long-term plan than just throwing money at former world cup winners forever.
Sorry, I didn't mean it to come across like that Maybe you missed the part I highlighted. I'm certainly not jealous, but I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that you have a lot of big name imports in your team. What happens when they retire? If they're replaced by players from your academy I'd say that's great, but if you have to keep bringing in players from other countries then surely that's not as good for local development?
Edna Kenny wrote:The headline is unfair as it was never Leinster negotiating with Sexton. Anyway, I think the lesson has been learned by the IRFU who have done well to keep SOB and Heaslip so let's all move on! There are so many what if's there it's ridiculous. What Mick Galwey's warm up in 2000 has to do with how Leinster entered the stadium is beyond me. We were level at half time so were hardly intimidated.
Speaking as someone who was there, the atmosphere was far less "febrile" than Thornley had made out. It wasn't anything like as noisy as Clermont and we were able to make plenty of noise to support the lads. The Toulon fans were actually a little edgy and they only really got going when the second try when in. Then the papers started flying and they went mad, but it's just noise, nothing intimidating at all. Jamie certainly wasn't using it as an excuse in this interview.
Exactly! Only got really noisy after the second try. Great atmosphere but far from imtimidating. What gets written in the papers tends to bear little resemblance to reality.
I can' say I thought much of the atmosphere in Toulon. It was certainly more lively than the RDS but not a patch on the last two games in Clermont or the 2010 semi-final in Toulouse.
Toulon Fan, talking to the Toulon Fans outside the ground after the match (and before) they all mentioned the lack of homegrown players with annoyance and seemed disgruntled with it. IIn fact they complimented Leinster on the representation (and success with) of homegrown players.
Anyhow, maybe that will change in the near future although with owners like that will the Under 20's and 18's be given time to develop in the first team with MB around?
I have to disagree with alot of other comments regarding Toulon - I was incredibly impressed with the town and its population, all very welcoming and I certainly got a sense of anticapation around the twon in the afternoon before the match. Every home crowd (especially French) turns on their team when they are not delivering - perhaps the Toulon fans were a bit worried, if we made some smarter decisions the game would have been alot closer. But regardless, some of the comments come across quite poorly and do not reflect well on us.
"Munster could join the French League, or an expanded English / British league."
What a cute and so romantic 20th century vision of academies and rugby !
Academies are not forming proud local high class people who wants to set in town and open a bar after their rugby carreer anymore !
You guys have to deal with it! Rugby is professionnal now. And Toulon did not make that.
Academies are forming professionnal rugby players who got their own agent at 17 yo and are free to go wherever they want!
Boudjellal adapted his club to a system that was existing before he get in! Don't reverse the responsability.
Everyone got to deal with that, or will die !
And by everyone, I mean everyone everywhere !
Fun thing is Big Serge created the professionnal rugby in France, and now his Biarritz club dying because he can't control the monster he created ! So now he's pedaling backyards by eyeing at the FFR !
@ Toulon fan.
What you say is eminently sensible and correct on one hand. However, on another hand it's not wholly applicable to the Irish system. Our provinces are 'franchises' of the IRFU, and, ultimately, they exist to find and develop players for the national side. No provincial head coach can make any moves/signings etc. unless he has the express approval of (and funding from) the IRFU. Hence our obsession with producing home-grown talent via our academies. We're a small country where rugby is a very minority sport and, as such, we need our provinces to provide as much support and opportunity to Irish players. French national rugby clearly gains from economies of scale so the same constraints so not need to apply to your clubs.
Btw, neither system is 'right' or 'wrong', merely the realities of the situation. One thing I would wholeheartedly agree with you is that we need to be constantly striving towards even more professionalism. I have to say, Leinster is a remarkably professional and well-run organisation, but, if you stand still you go backwards.
Also, just wanted to say how much Mrs. Lamb and I enjoyed our trip to Toulon. I thought the atmosphere in the town was excellent - not just the support in the square on Sat evening and before the match, but also in talking to 'locals' about the match over the weekend. Everyone knew about the match, and seemed to have an interest in rugby and was happy to opine about their team's prospects. It seems very fitting to me that the Toulonais would now have such an excellent team to match their passion.
Lamb of BOD wrote:Btw, neither system is 'right' or 'wrong', merely the realities of the situation. One thing I would wholeheartedly agree with you is that we need to be constantly striving towards even more professionalism. I have to say, Leinster is a remarkably professional and well-run organisation, but, if you stand still you go backwards.
The relative decline in numbers of top line players available to PSA (outhalf most notably) and decline in quality of those few players of French origin would seem to indicate that there is something wrong with the French system. If your main point of view is for club success then I guess it works, although as a fan I'd be much more inclined to pay money to follow local guys playing for my local team then an expensively assembled international dream team. Each to their own I guess.
There are two things about the Toulon model that I really dislike. The first is that they've just gone way too far. Look at the options they have at fullback now but then they've signed James O'Connor and Halfpenney for next season. That's just ridiculous.
The second thing is that as a fan I'd be more disillusioned with casting aside players who've been successful rather than not having many local players. As much as I hated him, someone like Delon Armitage has been brilliant for them but could find himself out in the cold next season for no good reason.
Actually three things, the effect that money has had on the other leagues and international rugby should not be allowed to continue.
IRFU, like FFR are entities of an old obsolete system. Unions are losing money ! ALL of them ! Why ?
Why FFR and RFU are vampirising their pro clubs for fresh blood (money) ? Because without clubs, they'll be suffocating as IRFU !
It's not the french national team that will pay the FFR future Grand Stadium... Top14 incomes to the FFR will !
Unions are already walking dead. Pro clubs/franchises can live without them, forming youth and make money. Even yours as well !
They're all just an old bunch of profiteers who are afraid to lose their privileges.
There are pro players, pro clubs, pro sport, pro academies, pro stadiums and structures.
And we shall keep our amateur Unions, managing amateur referees and amateur national teams ?
What a joke ! SANZAR already put a step farther for a while by contracting their players and seriously handling the referees and refereeing codes.
European Unions, and especially France, must do the same and move on. Instead of killing THEIR OWN golden goose.
When the whole IRB circus will be professionnal, including TV rights and marketing rights and maybe new kind of tournaments,
Ireland will rise as now and nothern hemisphere will shine versus southern !
Note : the IRB already took this way : look at their mediation during the last ERC/Rugby Champions Cup thing conflict.
The message IRB sent was clear : protecting those old sensibilities with nice words, but facts are that ERC have to change into RCC.
TerenureJim wrote:as a fan I'd be much more inclined to pay money to follow local guys playing for my local team then an expensively assembled international dream team.
I totally agree with you here. I imagine most posters on here know some of the players personally - played in school with them etc - or see them walking the streets or doing the shopping, and that really helps to connect the supporters to the team. Having a proliferation of local talent in our professional sides also serves as a spur to the kids taking up the game now, as they'll feel they have an opportunity to emulate the Healys, Murphys, O'Driscolls etc etc. In soccer, players like Giggs, Gerard an so on are prized and lauded for their loyalty, but are something of an oddity - especially at the top level. I would hate to see Leinster to go in that direction. By and large, most of the overseas players we've had have bought into the club and the province and have (appeared, at least) to have been more than mere mercenaries. When I said neither way was right or wrong, I meant that the 'French way' would, almost certainly, not work here. Frankly I'm happy when the French national coach has to attend Amlin matches to find players, because there are (relatively) few playing for the top sides. However, if they're happy with that, then let it be so.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There are two things about the Toulon model that I really dislike. The first is that they've just gone way too far. Look at the options they have at fullback now but then they've signed James O'Connor and Halfpenney for next season. That's just ridiculous.
The second thing is that as a fan I'd be more disillusioned with casting aside players who've been successful rather than not having many local players. As much as I hated him, someone like Delon Armitage has been brilliant for them but could find himself out in the cold next season for no good reason.
Actually three things, the effect that money has had on the other leagues and international rugby should not be allowed to continue.
A lot of studies and research on the economics of professional sports emphasise the importance of what they call "competitive balance" and "uncertainty" as key elements in the attractiveness of sport. The over-concentration of resources (money) in any particular participating team/country etc. is viewed as being damaging to the sport, European soccer being the obvious (and oft quoted) example.
There is a possibility of an all French European final for the third time in five years and the four semi-finalists are exactly the same as last year - although I think there's an element of fluke about that. So whatever about having to adapt and accept professionalism, which of course is true, the current trend isn't good for the sport if you accept the competitive balance and uncertainty criteria.
Toulon fan wrote:IRFU, like FFR are entities of an old obsolete system. Unions are losing money ! ALL of them ! Why ?
Why FFR and RFU are vampirising their pro clubs for fresh blood (money) ? Because without clubs, they'll be suffocating as IRFU !
It's not the french national team that will pay the FFR future Grand Stadium... Top14 incomes to the FFR will !
Unions are already walking dead. Pro clubs/franchises can live without them, forming youth and make money. Even yours as well !
They're all just an old bunch of profiteers who are afraid to lose their privileges.
There are pro players, pro clubs, pro sport, pro academies, pro stadiums and structures.
And we shall keep our amateur Unions, managing amateur referees and amateur national teams ?
What a joke ! SANZAR already put a step farther for a while by contracting their players and seriously handling the referees and refereeing codes.
European Unions, and especially France, must do the same and move on. Instead of killing THEIR OWN golden goose.
When the whole IRB circus will be professionnal, including TV rights and marketing rights and maybe new kind of tournaments,
Ireland will rise as now and nothern hemisphere will shine versus southern !
Note : the IRB already took this way : look at their mediation during the last ERC/Rugby Champions Cup thing conflict.
The message IRB sent was clear : protecting those old sensibilities with nice words, but facts are that ERC have to change into RCC.
The Irish provinces will never be able to compete with French money if rugby becomes more like football. The Irish provinces would become like French soccer clubs before Monaco and PSG were taken over by billionaires - represented in European competition but with little chance of winning. Some decent players playing for them, but with most of our international players playing abroad.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Toulon fan wrote:IRFU, like FFR are entities of an old obsolete system. Unions are losing money ! ALL of them ! Why ?
Why FFR and RFU are vampirising their pro clubs for fresh blood (money) ? Because without clubs, they'll be suffocating as IRFU !
It's not the french national team that will pay the FFR future Grand Stadium... Top14 incomes to the FFR will !
Unions are already walking dead. Pro clubs/franchises can live without them, forming youth and make money. Even yours as well !
They're all just an old bunch of profiteers who are afraid to lose their privileges.
There are pro players, pro clubs, pro sport, pro academies, pro stadiums and structures.
And we shall keep our amateur Unions, managing amateur referees and amateur national teams ?
What a joke ! SANZAR already put a step farther for a while by contracting their players and seriously handling the referees and refereeing codes.
European Unions, and especially France, must do the same and move on. Instead of killing THEIR OWN golden goose.
When the whole IRB circus will be professionnal, including TV rights and marketing rights and maybe new kind of tournaments,
Ireland will rise as now and nothern hemisphere will shine versus southern !
Note : the IRB already took this way : look at their mediation during the last ERC/Rugby Champions Cup thing conflict.
The message IRB sent was clear : protecting those old sensibilities with nice words, but facts are that ERC have to change into RCC.
congrats on buying your success.. no better than Man City or PSG.
goreyguy wrote:
congrats on buying your success.. no better than Man City or PSG.
Ha ! How relevant... Sorry, I forgot you won your 3 stars by selling cookies and kept your players at home with free beers !
How convenient we were when you rose and we were down deep...
goreyguy wrote:
congrats on buying your success.. no better than Man City or PSG.
Ha ! How relevant... Sorry, I forgot you won your 3 stars by selling cookies and kept your players at home with free beers !
How convenient we were when you rose and we were down deep...
We won our three stars with a majority of home-grown players, produced in Leinster, by Leinster - not bought in. They were obviously paid well but their salaries would have been considerably less than what most of Toulon's players earn. That's just the reality - as one elderly Toulon fan said to me on Sunday 'C'est le couer contre l'argent'.
That being said, the Toulon team is obviously more than 'mercenaries'. They have passion and a genuine desire to win, as well as lots of money. I still respect the quality of the team and their achievements, but I would say that our route to success was a bit more 'honourable'.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you missed the part I highlighted. I'm certainly not jealous, but I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that you have a lot of big name imports in your team. What happens when they retire? If they're replaced by players from your academy I'd say that's great, but if you have to keep bringing in players from other countries then surely that's not as good for local development?
