Leinster V Ulster

[UlsterMan]

Congratulations on the win guys, hope you guys win the thing outright.

Just out of interest: do you think Leinster won that game or that Ulster lost the game?

[Avenger]

Just out of interest: do you think Leinster won that game or that Ulster lost the game?

The media seem to be going with the Ulster lost it angle but I wouldn't subscribe to that.

[fourthirtythree]

Just out of interest: do you think Leinster won that game or that Ulster lost the game?

The media seem to be going with the Ulster lost it angle but I wouldn't subscribe to that.

If we'd lost it I'd have been saying that it was us that lost it through not converting the linebreaks.

[UlsterMan]

Just out of interest: do you think Leinster won that game or that Ulster lost the game?

The media seem to be going with the Ulster lost it angle but I wouldn't subscribe to that.

Just out of interest: do you think Leinster won that game or that Ulster lost the game?

The media seem to be going with the Ulster lost it angle but I wouldn't subscribe to that.

If we'd lost it I'd have been saying that it was us that lost it through not converting the linebreaks.

Fair enough guys, thanks for replying.

Just to add before anybody else responds, I have no opinion either way, in the end Ulster were not clinical enough while Leinster were outstanding in defence so maybe a bit of both. Just interested to see because the general consensus up north is that we should've been out of sight by the end of the first half for all the possession we had, so just wanting to see what the winning fans think.

[fourthirtythree]

Fair enough guys, thanks for replying.

Just to add before anybody else responds, I have no opinion either way, in the end Ulster were not clinical enough while Leinster were outstanding in defence so maybe a bit of both. Just interested to see because the general consensus up north is that we should've been out of sight by the end of the first half for all the possession we had, so just wanting to see what the winning fans think.

It's always both though isn't it? Ulster were certainly the better team in the first half and our not converting the linebreaks was partially due to the brilliant steals that Ulster made. Ulster's defence was also excellent, we found it difficult to hold onto the ball. Your lineout caused us problems (as did ours to you). The conditions made it difficult for you to use Pienaar to convert penalties, we struggled for points as you didn't give any penalties away in your half and your defence was excellent.

It was, as expected, really tight and the strength of our bench and depth of the squad is what won it in the end for us. You were carrying a couple too many injuries going into the match I think.

[nc6000]

I think that McFadden might be in a bit more trouble than BOD in terms of making it for the final. In my entirely inexpert opinion he appears to make a classic fencing response in the aftermath of the tackle, and thats a certain signifier of concussion.

I saw him as he was leaving the RDS and he seemed to be fine as he posed for a picture with my daughter but hey I'm not Guy Noves so what do I know about concussion!

Rhys Ruddock had his right ankle in one of those boot thingys as he left the RDS so hopefully he's OK.

[The Doc]

Fair enough guys, thanks for replying.

Just to add before anybody else responds, I have no opinion either way, in the end Ulster were not clinical enough while Leinster were outstanding in defence so maybe a bit of both. Just interested to see because the general consensus up north is that we should've been out of sight by the end of the first half for all the possession we had, so just wanting to see what the winning fans think.

I certainly think we were lucky not to be further behind at half time. I would say that Ulster were the better team for 60 mins. Certainly were making it very difficult for Leinster. However I also think Leinster caused some of their own problems - I recall being quite frustrated that we butchered some of our chances - having made line breaks we would turn over through some sloppy handling etc. Also we didn't convert our scrum advantage into points. So at half time I felt we were both lucky to be as close but also we should have scored something in the half.

As time went on though - Ulster needed to get further ahead. I think it was predictable that we would have the upper hand in the last 20 between fitness and a stronger bench (in my view). Ulster probably needed a try before that last 15 / 20 mins realistically.

I don't think I would say Ulster lost it - but a combination of carrying injuries and missing one or two key starters meant that they had to try to win it in the first 60-65 mins and Leinster defence managed to hang on (just).

But a lot of resepct for the Ulster team afterwards - especially in the terrace where I was

[dmnsctt]

we won in spite of MOC

+1...the more I see the less I like..

+2

[Dexter]

Fair enough guys, thanks for replying.

Just to add before anybody else responds, I have no opinion either way, in the end Ulster were not clinical enough while Leinster were outstanding in defence so maybe a bit of both. Just interested to see because the general consensus up north is that we should've been out of sight by the end of the first half for all the possession we had, so just wanting to see what the winning fans think.

I certainly think we were lucky not to be further behind at half time. I would say that Ulster were the better team for 60 mins. Certainly were making it very difficult for Leinster. However I also think Leinster caused some of their own problems - I recall being quite frustrated that we butchered some of our chances - having made line breaks we would turn over through some sloppy handling etc. Also we didn't convert our scrum advantage into points. So at half time I felt we were both lucky to be as close but also we should have scored something in the half.

As time went on though - Ulster needed to get further ahead. I think it was predictable that we would have the upper hand in the last 20 between fitness and a stronger bench (in my view). Ulster probably needed a try before that last 15 / 20 mins realistically.

I don't think I would say Ulster lost it - but a combination of carrying injuries and missing one or two key starters meant that they had to try to win it in the first 60-65 mins and Leinster defence managed to hang on (just).

But a lot of resepct for the Ulster team afterwards - especially in the terrace where I was

Yeah I was pretty happy to be only 6 points down at HT - although we did make a mess of any line breaks we got. When it went to 0-9 I thought we had left too much to do, but for the last 25 mins or so I thought we saw more of the "real" Leinster that we've been missing. When we made one good break @ around 55 mins I was saying "Let's see what way we mess this one up" and sure enough we did. After that however we pretty much converted the chances we had - and then defended brilliantly.
Ulster are a class side and played pretty well, that was an extremely good win IMO.

[Peg Leg]

Yeah I was pretty happy to be only 6 points down at HT - although we did make a mess of any line breaks we got. When it went to 0-9 I thought we had left too much to do, but for the last 25 mins or so I thought we saw more of the "real" Leinster that we've been missing. When we made one good break @ around 55 mins I was saying "Let's see what way we mess this one up" and sure enough we did. After that however we pretty much converted the chances we had - and then defended brilliantly.
Ulster are a class side and played pretty well, that was an extremely good win IMO.

Was that the one where Gopperth cut back, went for contact, got isolated and turned over even though we had an overlap out wide?

Show Spoiler:

That was MOC's fault

[MarkyDeSad]

Ulster were very well organised for the first thirty mins or so, but our tactic of kicking it too them worked well. While it was not pretty and was frustrating to watch Ulster weren't capable of coming back at us and though it meant they had the lion's share of possession it didn't do them much good. They did have some serious chances in the opening 15 mins, but poor decision making/awareness prevented them from finishing them. We were in the South Stand and at one point there was a ruck about 10m from our line in front of the posts, Ulster had five or six guys lined out to our left with DK the only Blue facing them, they went the other way , of course Baby had it covered anyway
Besides that I thought Leinster played a tight clever game. I'm never a fan of leaving the actual winning of a game to the bench, mostly because it rarely happens, but there is no doubt that Seanie, Leo amd Madser were the winning of this one, that's not to take away from the efforts of Dev especially and practically everyone else putting in big shifts.
Ulster are a strong well drilled outfit and they seriously thought they could beat us and they gave it their best shot, but ultimately,imho, they were out-thought and out-played.

What can you say about Dev this season? He started brilliantly and has only got better

[baaba maal]

MOC seems to be intent on making Leinster into a version of Leicester.
We were awful in possession for large parts of yesterdays game, players were making basic errors and poor decisions.
We once again managed to pull out a win because of fitness levels and having more talent that the other team.

The result is all that matters at this stage of the season but just because we managed to pull out a narrow win against a weakened Ulster team who were unable to close out the game doesn't mean MOC is doing a good job. At best he performing averagely.

I'm having difficulty squaring off the first two sentences- is it:
MOC is turning us into Leicester AND players were awful in possession/making basic errors
or
MOC is turning us into Leicester BUT players were awful in possession/making basic errors
It can't be both. I fully accept we are not playing in the style that we the supporters want, but I'll take another Rabo final if it's going thanks very much. In relation to Ulster being weakened, as somebody else pointed out, we finished the game with two scrumhalves, two outhalves and two fullbacks.

I also note elsewhere that S&C coaching staff get credit for fitness levels but head coach doesn't get credit for the result. Each is doing their job but we are only to hand plaudits to certain parts of the coaching ticket?

[[Jackass]]

Let's not bring in "He's old and the other lads are just tremenjus!" We were dominated at the breakdown when it really mattered, couldn't get out of our half with the ball in the first 40, didn't turn over ball from relentless pressure, I seem to recall disruption just about got us out of jail forcing errors, our lineout was poor

You need to watch the game again and step away from the keyboard.

I took your advice buddy, maybe you should take your own advice. Here's a breakdown of the first half I was talking about: (feel free to double check it on RTE player).

First Quarter:

Leinster touched the ball in the Ulster half once in the first 10 minutes, a half inch over the half-way line, which was turned over after one phase. The entire first 10 was played in Leinster half otherwise. In total we had about 5 or 6 phases of possession in the entire period. Each kicking game of tennis ended in the Leinster half. We just about held a lineout on our own line and were immediately turned over into touch. Ulster were within inches of our line on two occasions and had made 3 or 4 midfield line breaks in the first 10.

In the second 10, after a good maul in our own half our kicking game results in Trimble being taken out in the air by McFadden. We're pinned back in our half for next 5 minutes without possession, we get a penalty and lineout, but it's not straight lineout denying us getting out of our half, until our only weapon comes into play from the resulting scrum, get us our first endeavor into Ulster half after 16 minutes. We've still put only 5 or 6 phases of possession together at this point. From the lineout we secure it but fail to put one phase together before it is stolen in maul and Henderson breaks to march us 25 metres up pitch. We get to use our only weapon again, scrum after Hendo knocks it on. We fail to put one phase together from scrum and just kick it straight out as soon as it comes out of scrum. Ulster win the lineout and maul us 10 / 15 metres back into our own half.

In the first 20 minutes we held the ball for less than 3 / 4 minutes and the game was 2 / 3 minutes in Ulsters half and put together a total of 6 / 7 phases. Ulster have had two shots at goal and have been within inches of our line a couple of times. The only way we've gotten our hands on the ball has been from Ulster indiscipline and the only way we've gotten away from in and around our own 22 has been from the resulting penalties.

Second quarter:

Starts with a Leinster penalty when McFadden is taken out in air deep in our own half (harsh penalty at that), we kick just short of the halfway line, lineout not straight, Ulster ball. They hand it back to us with forward pass inside our own half. We get our first bit of decent play after 23 minutes, we break into Ulster half through Dave Kearney but are turned over within 2 or 3 phases with a penalty, kicked back into our own half.

Ulster hand it back again from forward pass. Gopperth makes a nice break into Ulster territory, we're turned over after one phase and kicked back into our own 22, we did have a superb kick chase though after the lineout and win a penalty on the half way line. Kick into Ulster 22 and we turn it over after 2 phases with knock-on from more bosh ball up the middle and give away penalty at scrum. Ulster let us off hook, ,miss touch, but we give it back after two phases.

Beautiful lineout steal and Uster indiscipline lets us kick it to their 22. We have our best spell, making 5 phases in Ulster territory, BOD kicks it away, D'Arcy hammers Bowe, last 7 or so minutes spent in Leinster territory.

In total the first half was played in the Ulster half for about 5 or 6 minutes and Leinster held the ball in the Ulster half for about 2 to 3 minutes. The entirety of the remainder of the half was in Leinster half and mostly in Ulster hands. We managed to hold the ball beyond 2 or 3 phases once in the entire half.

[goreyguy]

Jackman talking about Leinster's poor attack and passing on Off the Ball.
Says Leinster backline clearly not on the same page and need to work together in preseason to iron out clear issues there.

[baaba maal]

Jackman talking about Leinster's poor attack and passing on Off the Ball.
Says Leinster backline clearly not on the same page and need to work together in preseason to iron out clear issues there.

Gotcha. Loud and clear.

[mikey]

Jackman talking about Leinster's poor attack and passing on Off the Ball.
Says Leinster backline clearly not on the same page and need to work together in preseason to iron out clear issues there.

i'd be happier if they worked on that over the next 10 days and came out all guns blazing!!!

[simonokeeffe]

Jackman talking about Leinster's poor attack and passing on Off the Ball.
Says Leinster backline clearly not on the same page and need to work together in preseason to iron out clear issues there.

Gotcha. Loud and clear.

speaking of preseason, we kind of have a much stronger pack next year, McGrath, Moore, Murphy (even Ruddock) much more experienced, this year we missed SOB and Strauss for huge chunks, Healy was held back in training with his spatz, McCarthy will be fully fit from the start, Douglas will offer more than Leo could/was around for

[Morf]

More corporate knowledge added . . .

[ceemec]

Let's not bring in "He's old and the other lads are just tremenjus!" We were dominated at the breakdown when it really mattered, couldn't get out of our half with the ball in the first 40, didn't turn over ball from relentless pressure, I seem to recall disruption just about got us out of jail forcing errors, our lineout was poor

You need to watch the game again and step away from the keyboard.

Summary of game.

So, in conclusion, we did get out of our half with the ball in the first 40 (without even thinking about it, I can name 4 times we were in their 22), we did actually generate quick ball at the breakdown when it truly mattered (the quick recycles and midfield carries led directly to our try and we turned over Ulster twice on our own line) and our line out had two blips but stole a couple of opposition balls and was generally good.

I don't take issue with your summary, I take issue with your original comment (originally quoted) being either inaccurate or simply hyperbole.

[fourthirtythree]

Is this on the RTÉ player? I forgot to record it. I had a look on Sunday and it wasn't there and I don't see it now...

EDIT
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10284038/

Thankfully it is! God bless modern technology and how it helps us stupid people.