First choice Leinster matchday squad '15/'16

[leinsterforever]

What's our best 23 for this season?

[Peg Leg]

A team of Sean O'Brien's

[goreyguy]

Right now?

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Ian Madigan
13. Ben Teo
14. Isa Nacewa
15. Rob Kearney
16. Richardt Strauss
17. Jack McGrath
18. Martin Moore
19. Mick Kearney
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Isaac Boss
22. Noel Reid
23. Fergus McFadden/Dave Kearney

[AdamK]

Personally I'd imagine it will be...

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. McCarthy
6. Ruddock
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. Reid
13. T'eo
14. Nacewa
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Moore
19. Kearney
20. Murphy
21. Boss
22. Madigan
23. Ferg/Baby Kearney/ZK

We have a pretty good looking set of backs this year actually. Thing is, as usual, we'll be plagued by injuries, so doubtful we'll get a perfect team on the field.

[goreyguy]

Nothing to suggest strauss will be ahead of the leinster player of the year last year in cronin.
If Madigan is stuck on the bench then i'd expect this will be his final year as a Leinster player.
Personally i'd ask him would he be interested in attempting to convert to 9 post RWC. It's worth a shot.

[AdamK]

Nothing to suggest strauss will be ahead of the leinster player of the year last year in cronin.
If Madigan is stuck on the bench then i'd expect this will be his final year as a Leinster player.
Personally i'd ask him would he be interested in attempting to convert to 9 post RWC. It's worth a shot.

Too old to start training as a 9, would be a massive step backwards.

He may start at 12 for us, but the reality is Reid is a better 12 so unless he improves there it really shouldn't be happening.

Will he really be that annoyed sitting on the bench behind Sexton? Right now he's set to make a load of dosh by being a pro '22'. His versatility means he'll make more match day squads for Ireland than Jackson or Keatley will. And he'll play more at 10 for Leinster this season than he has in a while.

I have a feeling Strauss will reclaim the starting jersey, and Cronin will be used as an impact sub.

[goreyguy]

Nothing to suggest strauss will be ahead of the leinster player of the year last year in cronin.
If Madigan is stuck on the bench then i'd expect this will be his final year as a Leinster player.
Personally i'd ask him would he be interested in attempting to convert to 9 post RWC. It's worth a shot.

Too old to start training as a 9, would be a massive step backwards.

He may start at 12 for us, but the reality is Reid is a better 12 so unless he improves there it really shouldn't be happening.

Will he really be that annoyed sitting on the bench behind Sexton? Right now he's set to make a load of dosh by being a pro '22'. His versatility means he'll make more match day squads for Ireland than Jackson or Keatley will. And he'll play more at 10 for Leinster this season than he has in a while.

I have a feeling Strauss will reclaim the starting jersey, and Cronin will be used as an impact sub.

He has been playing some 9 this preseason training with Schmidt according to Brendan Fanning.
He has recently said he wants to play as much as possible either at scrumhalf, outhalf, centre or fullback.
Yeah I think he wouldn't be happy sitting on the bench behind Reid, he'd make more money and play more regularly if he went abroad and probably at his prefered position.
He won't play much 10 for Leinster if he is in Ireland squads with Sexton. Unless you think Sexton is never going to play pro 12 rugby this year.

[simonokeeffe]

I could be wrong but my impression was right wing was Isa's third best position at best

I'd have Dave Kearney on right wing and Luke or Ringrose at 13

[hugonaut]

He may start at 12 for us, but the reality is Reid is a better 12 so unless he improves there it really shouldn't be happening.

I'm not at all sure about that – Reid has played very few tough games at No12, so I don't think it's comparing like with like. Reid has started 24 games there for Leinster; it's not relevant to include the Scotstoun fixture in Glasgow this season, as he was injured in the first minute, so to all extents he has played No12 in 23 games, with a W/D/L record of 19/1/3.

He's started 22 games in the league and 1 in European competition; almost half of his starts in the league have come against the perennial bottom dwellers like NGD, Treviso and Zebre [10 of 22, to be precise]. In the league, the average finishing league place of the opponents in those games has been 8.5, i.e. either eighth or ninth in the league. As a starting No12, over three seasons, he's only played in 3 games against teams who finished in the top four in the season that the game took place.

2012-13
1. 20-45 [L] @ Scarlets [league finishing position 4/12]
2. 45-25 [W] vs NGD [11/12]

2013-14
3. 34-20 [W] vs Cardiff [league finishing position 7/12]
4. 16-13 [W] vs Connacht [10/12]
5. 23-19 [W] @ NGD [9/12]- [1 try]
6. 20-21 [W] @ Treviso [11/12] - [1 try]
7. 6-11 [L] @ Edinburgh [8/12]
8. 19-6 [W] vs Ulster [4/12]
9. 8-31 [W] @ Zebre [12/12] - [1 try]
10. 31-19 [W] vs NGD [9/12]
11. 22-34 [W] vs Cardiff [7/12]
12. 28-25 [W] vs Glasgow - [2/12] [1 try]
13. 27-0 [W} vs Zebre [12/12] - [1 try]
14. 25-19 [W] vs Ospreys [5/12]
15. 62-7 [W] vs Treviso [11/12] - [2 tries]

2014-15
16. @ Glasgow [N/A, injured in the first minute]
17. 3-20 [W] @ Zebre [league finishing position 12/12]
18. 25-20 [W] vs Wasps [HEC]
19. 33-8 [W] vs Edinburgh [8/12]
20. 24-24 [D] @ Treviso [11/12]
21. 21-11 [W] vs Connacht [7/12]
22. 13-22 [W] @ Cardiff [10/12] – [1 try]
23. 14-16 [L] vs NGD [9/12]
24. 22-36 [W] @ Edinburgh [8/12] - [1try]

He's shown up very well in a number of those games, but it's pretty easy to show up well when you're playing outmatched opposition. There's things about Reid's game that are really good, but it's a big step up between running amuck against Treviso and Zebre and doing the same against Bath [Burgess/Eastmond/Joseph] and Toulon [Giteau/Nonu/Bastareaud]. Whether he can translate one to the other is a total unknown.

[goreyguy]

Thornley reckons Madigan is going to RWC as Ireland's second choice 12 behind Henshaw.

[cormac]

Thornley reckons Madigan is going to RWC as Ireland's second choice 12 behind Henshaw.

That's largely due to Schmidt believing he can't afford to bring two specialist 12's within a squad of 31.

[AdamK]

He may start at 12 for us, but the reality is Reid is a better 12 so unless he improves there it really shouldn't be happening.

I'm not at all sure about that – Reid has played very few tough games at No12, so I don't think it's comparing like with like. Reid has started 24 games there for Leinster; it's not relevant to include the Scotstoun fixture in Glasgow this season, as he was injured in the first minute, so to all extents he has played No12 in 23 games, with a W/D/L record of 19/1/3.

He's started 22 games in the league and 1 in European competition; almost half of his starts in the league have come against the perennial bottom dwellers like NGD, Treviso and Zebre [10 of 22, to be precise]. In the league, the average finishing league place of the opponents in those games has been 8.5, i.e. either eighth or ninth in the league. As a starting No12, over three seasons, he's only played in 3 games against teams who finished in the top four in the season that the game took place.

2012-13
1. 20-45 [L] @ Scarlets [league finishing position 4/12]
2. 45-25 [W] vs NGD [11/12]

2013-14
3. 34-20 [W] vs Cardiff [league finishing position 7/12]
4. 16-13 [W] vs Connacht [10/12]
5. 23-19 [W] @ NGD [9/12]- [1 try]
6. 20-21 [W] @ Treviso [11/12] - [1 try]
7. 6-11 [L] @ Edinburgh [8/12]
8. 19-6 [W] vs Ulster [4/12]
9. 8-31 [W] @ Zebre [12/12] - [1 try]
10. 31-19 [W] vs NGD [9/12]
11. 22-34 [W] vs Cardiff [7/12]
12. 28-25 [W] vs Glasgow - [2/12] [1 try]
13. 27-0 [W} vs Zebre [12/12] - [1 try]
14. 25-19 [W] vs Ospreys [5/12]
15. 62-7 [W] vs Treviso [11/12] - [2 tries]

2014-15
16. @ Glasgow [N/A, injured in the first minute]
17. 3-20 [W] @ Zebre [league finishing position 12/12]
18. 25-20 [W] vs Wasps [HEC]
19. 33-8 [W] vs Edinburgh [8/12]
20. 24-24 [D] @ Treviso [11/12]
21. 21-11 [W] vs Connacht [7/12]
22. 13-22 [W] @ Cardiff [10/12] – [1 try]
23. 14-16 [L] vs NGD [9/12]
24. 22-36 [W] @ Edinburgh [8/12] - [1try]

He's shown up very well in a number of those games, but it's pretty easy to show up well when you're playing outmatched opposition. There's things about Reid's game that are really good, but it's a big step up between running amuck against Treviso and Zebre and doing the same against Bath [Burgess/Eastmond/Joseph] and Toulon [Giteau/Nonu/Bastareaud]. Whether he can translate one to the other is a total unknown.

As always, I bow to your infinite knowledge and research! However, my point is based purely on opinion formed at watching Reid. I think he has the traditional skillset of a 1st centre that Madigan doesn't possess. I think Madigan gets picked for the big day squads because he's a seriously quality player, good enough to play international footy... but that doesn't mean he's a better 12 or better at that role.

And in fairness, a lot of the time he was getting picked there last season to make sure we had a boot on the field.

It'll be interesting to see who plays inside of Sexton, and with a big run in Reid will be the primary 12, if he can stay injury free I think Madigan may have trouble moving him when he gets back.

[Fireworks]

I wonder if Leo will make it even more confusing for everyone and throw Teo into the 12 equation. I think it might suit him and the team.

[goreyguy]

Thornley reckons Madigan is going to RWC as Ireland's second choice 12 behind Henshaw.

That's largely due to Schmidt believing he can't afford to bring two specialist 12's within a squad of 31.

Says to me that Madigan is rated ahead of Reid at 12 by JS, one will be at the world cup and the other really didn't come close and hasn't ever really performed at a high level consistently.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That's a bit simplistic because it ignores the fact that Madigan is a back up ten and goal kicker.

Reid's Injury really came at an awful time for him at the start of last season. He'd been building very nicely before that and hopefully the fact that he finished off the season with such an impressive performance and was apparently in good nick for Ireland in preseason means he'll be able to make up for what was a bit of a wasted season.

[goreyguy]

I have hopes he can progress but there is very little so far to suggest he will be ahead of Madigan this season at 12.
Maybe that changes over the RWC but it would require Reid to step up his performances and consistency a lot.

Who is the better rugby player? it's Madigan. Reid isn't some novice, he is only a year younger than Madigan.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I would say that he did show good consistency and performances the season before last and would be happy with that again, think he just needs an injury free run to get back there. That said, I don't think any of our options at 12 are of the desired quality really.

[simonokeeffe]

Marty Moore apparently out of RWC contention if he doesnt play against Ulster, handy pair of tightheads in Moore & Furlong for us if he doesnt go

[hugonaut]

As always, I bow to your infinite knowledge and research! However, my point is based purely on opinion formed at watching Reid. I think he has the traditional skillset of a 1st centre that Madigan doesn't possess. I think Madigan gets picked for the big day squads because he's a seriously quality player, good enough to play international footy... but that doesn't mean he's a better 12 or better at that role.

And in fairness, a lot of the time he was getting picked there last season to make sure we had a boot on the field.

It'll be interesting to see who plays inside of Sexton, and with a big run in Reid will be the primary 12, if he can stay injury free I think Madigan may have trouble moving him when he gets back.

I don't disagree with you on a lot of the things you've said – it's just that I don't think that Reid has yet gone through [never mind come through] many big tests of his all-round effectiveness at a high level yet.

It's obviously much better that a guy shows he can turn it on against worse teams than a guy who can't/doesn't [taking the very obvious example of Reid versus Macken], and I think that he has a good bit of talent, but in terms of leadership, toughness, tackling/defense and breakdown work I have a few reservations about him.

My brother has said to me a couple of times that he was the best goal kicker at schoolboy level he had ever seen in the cup, so it'd be great – for both Leinster and himself – to have that weapon back in his arsenal.

I think we have a really wide range of options open to us at No12 - Madigan, Reid, Te'o and Daly. It's not a position that I'm worried about, even with Darce's impending retirement.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Was wondering about the kicking too. If I remember correctly he started on the wing for Michaels in 4th year and it looked very much like it was a case of trying to keep him hidden for the most part and just being there to kick, which is partly what coloured my opinion of him as he came through the ranks.

I reckon he's got quite a bit bigger over the last 18 months or so and is definitely a much better defender than he used to be, am hopeful he'll have a good season.