Leinster exiles, where are they.

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curates_egg
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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by curates_egg »

blockhead wrote:Jack McGrath comes off a central IRFU deal and onto a 2 year provincial contract next season with Ulster
The main value the IRFU got out of that deal was moving him to Ulster.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by blockhead »

This 5 year residency rule could hurt Leinster most of all.
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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by elephantman »

Ian Madigan signing for Ulster apparently. Interesting move.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by wixfjord »

Likely taking a huge pay cut to sit second in the pecking order behind Burns and battle it out with Johnston.

But good to see him back on the island.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by hugonaut »

wixfjord wrote:Likely taking a huge pay cut to sit second in the pecking order behind Burns and battle it out with Johnston.

But good to see him back on the island.
No club is going to sign him for anything like the money he is on at Bristol or was on at Bordeaux. A drop in salary is inevitable wherever he was going to go.
As much as I am a fan of Madser, he was over-valued by Bristol in relation to what he produced on the pitch for them.

I see him competing very strongly with Burns. Bill Johnston has been a little bit of a disappointment this season – he had some great moments as an U20 and certainly was highly rated coming out of Munster, but he doesn't seem to have really fallen into step with the rest of the Ulster backline as of yet.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by wixfjord »

hugonaut wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Likely taking a huge pay cut to sit second in the pecking order behind Burns and battle it out with Johnston.

But good to see him back on the island.
No club is going to sign him for anything like the money he is on at Bristol or was on at Bordeaux. A drop in salary is inevitable wherever he was going to go.
As much as I am a fan of Madser, he was over-valued by Bristol in relation to what he produced on the pitch for them.

I see him competing very strongly with Burns. Bill Johnston has been a little bit of a disappointment this season – he had some great moments as an U20 and certainly was highly rated coming out of Munster, but he doesn't seem to have really fallen into step with the rest of the Ulster backline as of yet.
Not based on what they've respectively shown this season anyway.

Madser needs a big improvement in the autumn of his career if he's going to every be a #1 OH again.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

hugonaut wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Likely taking a huge pay cut to sit second in the pecking order behind Burns and battle it out with Johnston.

But good to see him back on the island.
No club is going to sign him for anything like the money he is on at Bristol or was on at Bordeaux. A drop in salary is inevitable wherever he was going to go.
As much as I am a fan of Madser, he was over-valued by Bristol in relation to what he produced on the pitch for them.

I see him competing very strongly with Burns. Bill Johnston has been a little bit of a disappointment this season – he had some great moments as an U20 and certainly was highly rated coming out of Munster, but he doesn't seem to have really fallen into step with the rest of the Ulster backline as of yet.
Johnston has improved a lot recently. I've always been a fan of his but that's not bias because I'd readily admit that he was very disappointing initially. I really hope that this doesn't have a negative impact on him because I still think he'll thrive if he's trusted.

It's the same with Nick McCarthy although things are more pessimistic for him right now. London Irish should go after him and he could potentially be their scrumhalf for the next decade IMO.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by Twist »

Ulster move confirmed by Madigan on his Instagram account

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Not strictly the right thread but my attention was caught by the names of two players in the Brumbies v Waratahs game. Conall McInerney was hooker for the Brumbies and Rory O'Connor was sub-LHP for the Waratahs.

Anybody know whether either have any Irish eligibility? Certainly there are a couple of Provinces who would be happy to watch the progress of these two with an eye to some future contract if they keep developing and are Irish eligible.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Twist wrote:Ulster move confirmed by Madigan on his Instagram account
Anybody know the number of Leinster guys at Ulster now? Actually I thing there must be a high number of Dublin/Leinster guys there now (Cooney, Madigan,Jordi etc)

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Post by outcast eddie »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
Twist wrote:Ulster move confirmed by Madigan on his Instagram account
Anybody know the number of Leinster guys at Ulster now? Actually I thing there must be a high number of Dublin/Leinster guys there now (Cooney, Madigan,Jordi etc)
I was just thinking that the answer to the question posed by the title of this thread (which is incorrectly punctuated BTW) appears to be mostly Ulster and Munster.
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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by hugonaut »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
Twist wrote:Ulster move confirmed by Madigan on his Instagram account
Anybody know the number of Leinster guys at Ulster now? Actually I thing there must be a high number of Dublin/Leinster guys there now (Cooney, Madigan,Jordi etc)
I think it's 11 in the senior squad:

Jack McGrath
Eric O'Sullivan
Marty Moore
Alan O'Connor
David O'Connor
Greg Jones
Jordi Murphy
Nick Timoney
John Cooney
Dave Shanahan
Ian Madigan

Barring a hooker, they could start a full pack of Dubs.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by riocard911 »

hugonaut wrote:
LeinsterLeader wrote:
Twist wrote:Ulster move confirmed by Madigan on his Instagram account
Anybody know the number of Leinster guys at Ulster now? Actually I thing there must be a high number of Dublin/Leinster guys there now (Cooney, Madigan,Jordi etc)
I think it's 11 in the senior squad:

Jack McGrath
Eric O'Sullivan
Marty Moore
Alan O'Connor
David O'Connor
Greg Jones
Jordi Murphy
Nick Timoney
John Cooney
Dave Shanahan
Ian Madigan

Barring a hooker, they could start a full pack of Dubs.
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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by blockhead »

hugonaut wrote:
LeinsterLeader wrote:
Twist wrote:Ulster move confirmed by Madigan on his Instagram account
Anybody know the number of Leinster guys at Ulster now? Actually I thing there must be a high number of Dublin/Leinster guys there now (Cooney, Madigan,Jordi etc)
I think it's 11 in the senior squad:

Jack McGrath
Eric O'Sullivan
Marty Moore
Alan O'Connor
David O'Connor
Greg Jones
Jordi Murphy
Nick Timoney
John Cooney
Dave Shanahan
Ian Madigan

Barring a hooker, they could start a full pack of Dubs.
Tom O'Toole was born in Drogheda, just sayin.
It could get to the stage were Ulster start putting quotas on the match day 23. Y'know, must have a least say 3 Ulster born players in the 23. Altough even that could be a bit of a push the way they are going atm.
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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by joooooe »

blockhead wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
LeinsterLeader wrote: Anybody know the number of Leinster guys at Ulster now? Actually I thing there must be a high number of Dublin/Leinster guys there now (Cooney, Madigan,Jordi etc)
I think it's 11 in the senior squad:

Jack McGrath
Eric O'Sullivan
Marty Moore
Alan O'Connor
David O'Connor
Greg Jones
Jordi Murphy
Nick Timoney
John Cooney
Dave Shanahan
Ian Madigan

Barring a hooker, they could start a full pack of Dubs.
Tom O'Toole was born in Drogheda, just sayin.
It could get to the stage were Ulster start putting quotas on the match day 23. Y'know, must have a least say 3 Ulster born players in the 23. Altough even that could be a bit of a push the way they are going atm.
If you broaden it out to general non-Ulster Ulster players you could add Gareth Milasinovich, Rob Herring, Sam Carter, Kieran Treadwell (though that's pushing it, in fairness), Marcel Coetzee, Sean Reidy, Clive Ross, Billy Burns, Angus Curtis (again, pushing it), Bill Johnston, Will Addison, Matt Faddes and Louis Ludik.

That's 24 (though probably really 22) non-Ulster Ulster players. With a bit of tactical imagination Ulster could put out a match day squad made up entirely of non-Ulster players. I didn't look at the academy either...

In fairness, they should be used to it by now up in Ravenhill; one amazing fact that still stands is that David Humphreys' drop goal in the 1999 Heineken Cup Final is the only score by an "Ulster" player in a European Cup final. Simon Mason (England), Dan Tuohy (England) and Ruan Pienaar (South Africa) are the others.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by dropkick »

Ulster never really had a decent academy before. It looks like its changing now but like munster they have to rely on imports if there has been a shortage of talent in the last decade.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by Dave Cahill »

dropkick wrote:Ulster never really had a decent academy before.
I'm not sure that's really accurate? Paddy Jackson, Stuart Olding, Neven Spence, Luke Marshall, Ian Henderson, Chris Farrell, and Craig Gilroy, for example, would beg to differ. Thats just one or two generations roughly. Guys like Tommy Bowe, Tommy Seymour, Ian Whitten, Darren Cave before and Stockdale, Balacounne and others since would indicate that production of players was never a problem. Was it as good as Leinster's? Perhaps not, but then Leinster are a exception in terms of population, money, and coaching - and how these are leveraged. The problem for Ulster was the progression from the academy and the environment that academy players graduated into.
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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by hugonaut »

Dave Cahill wrote:
dropkick wrote:Ulster never really had a decent academy before.
I'm not sure that's really accurate? Paddy Jackson, Stuart Olding, Neven Spence, Luke Marshall, Ian Henderson, Chris Farrell, and Craig Gilroy, for example, would beg to differ. Thats just one or two generations roughly. Guys like Tommy Bowe, Tommy Seymour, Ian Whitten, Darren Cave before and Stockdale, Balacounne and others since would indicate that production of players was never a problem. Was it as good as Leinster's? Perhaps not, but then Leinster are a exception in terms of population, money, and coaching - and how these are leveraged. The problem for Ulster was the progression from the academy and the environment that academy players graduated into.
Spot on DC.

Those seven players [+ McCloskey] at the top of the list were born in a three year period - Spence in 1990, Gilroy and Marshall in 1991; Henderson, Jackson and McCloskey in 1992, Farrell and Olding in 1993. They've all been capped at test level. Bit of a gap in the 1994 & 1995 years, then Stockdale [1996], Baloucoune [1997], Lowry [1998] etc.

Ulster's big problem for a decade has been producing forwards capable of playing pro rugby. Never really an issue in the backs.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by dropkick »

hugonaut wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
dropkick wrote:Ulster never really had a decent academy before.
I'm not sure that's really accurate? Paddy Jackson, Stuart Olding, Neven Spence, Luke Marshall, Ian Henderson, Chris Farrell, and Craig Gilroy, for example, would beg to differ. Thats just one or two generations roughly. Guys like Tommy Bowe, Tommy Seymour, Ian Whitten, Darren Cave before and Stockdale, Balacounne and others since would indicate that production of players was never a problem. Was it as good as Leinster's? Perhaps not, but then Leinster are a exception in terms of population, money, and coaching - and how these are leveraged. The problem for Ulster was the progression from the academy and the environment that academy players graduated into.
Spot on DC.

Those seven players [+ McCloskey] at the top of the list were born in a three year period - Spence in 1990, Gilroy and Marshall in 1991; Henderson, Jackson and McCloskey in 1992, Farrell and Olding in 1993. They've all been capped at test level. Bit of a gap in the 1994 & 1995 years, then Stockdale [1996], Baloucoune [1997], Lowry [1998] etc.

Ulster's big problem for a decade has been producing forwards capable of playing pro rugby. Never really an issue in the backs.

I think the lack of forwards is telling. It's a bit like they're hoping for the next Henderson to come along rather than going out and 'mining' for Hendersons or similar type of quality forwards.


Even the backs mentioned, it's just been Stockdale and Trimble who have been first choice for ireland, since Bowe.

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Re: Leinster exiles, where are they.

Post by Dave Cahill »

dropkick wrote:
Even the backs mentioned, it's just been Stockdale and Trimble who have been first choice for ireland, since Bowe.
Thats a matter of coaches choice though, the players were there if the coach chose to use them. And neither coach over the last decade was infallible when it came to selection. Indeed, Joe Schmidt, for all his success, could be a mediocre selector and made some of the worst selection decisions (including the very worst selection decision this millenium) in the history of irish professional rugby.
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