Ben T'eo

[Oldschool]

Ben Te'o has been learning his trade at Leinster for others to benefit.
This should stop immediately and he should only be used in an emergency.
Other players should be given the game time to learn what Te'o has now forfeited.
That's a tough approach but rugby is a business.
So Leo has to suit himself totally where Te'o is concerned and only use him as a last resort.
Who are the contenders to replace him.
A. The short term - Luke, Madigan, ANother because those two will be away during the 6Ns (Crosbie maybe)
B. Long Term - Ringrose and possibly Crosbie as backup because it's a fair bet Ringrose is going to be an international 13 by next season.
Luke should really be on the wing but at pro12 level he could be very good at 12 but we need other options at 12.
Reid is not the answer. He needs to go back to the wing where his defense wouldn't be as badly exposed and his speed and jink would be useful. We were badly lacking for support pace against Toulon.
Bearing in mind that McFadden is offering us nothing on the wing, this would free him for one last attempt at a long term stint at 12.
Surely if Denis Hurley can make the transition then so can our Ferg.
Leo et al need to reassess their options.
Joe also needs to re-assess his options and may help to push Leo down the road a bit earlier than he might prefer.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Ben Te'o has been learning his trade at Leinster for others to benefit.
This should stop immediately and he should only be used in an emergency.
Other players should be given the game time to learn what Te'o has now forfeited.
That's a tough approach but rugby is a business.
So Leo has to suit himself totally where Te'o is concerned and only use him as a last resort.
Who are the contenders to replace him.
A. The short term - Luke, Madigan, ANother because those two will be away during the 6Ns (Crosbie maybe)
B. Long Term - Ringrose and possibly Crosbie as backup because it's a fair bet Ringrose is going to be an international 13 by next season.
Luke should really be on the wing but at pro12 level he could be very good at 12 but we need other options at 12.
Reid is not the answer. He needs to go back to the wing where his defense wouldn't be as badly exposed and his speed and jink would be useful. We were badly lacking for support pace against Toulon.
Bearing in mind that McFadden is offering us nothing on the wing, this would free him for one last attempt at a long term stint at 12.
Surely if Denis Hurley can make the transition then so can our Ferg.
Leo et al need to reassess their options.
Joe also needs to re-assess his options and may help to push Leo down the road a bit earlier than he might prefer.

Oh dear, where to start with this one?

1: T'eo has been learning his trade to benefit others: well he's been payed to play for Leinster, and he's done a pretty fair job. Every Palmer is on a learning journey all the time, when they stop learning they begin to stagnate
2: he should only be used in an emergency: FFS, we're out of Europe with 4 losses on the bounce this year, if the rest of this season's effort to get f%~king no 1 seeding for fuvking Europe next fuvking year is not a fuvking emergency I don't know what is
3: Leo should only use him as a last resort: please read point 2
4a: who should replace him short term: if we have to dig into Crosier territory to replace him it is we who would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.
4b: who should replace him long term: Gazzer Ringrose
5: McFadden back into 12, Reid does not belong in the centres yet(if ever?) : yup, agreed wholeheartedly
6: Denis Hurley made the transition to 12: nope, Denis Hurley is shite
7: Leo et all need to reassess their options: well that's just stating the bleeding obvious
8: Joe might also need to reassess etc., etc...: Joe (or any future Irish coach) should be in a position to give the direction of play and development he needs for the national team, give workshops on his vision and possibly help guide the less experienced in who he sees potential in, but he can't be directly picking the fuvking team, in that case he doesn't need a provincial head coach he just needs a high paid secretary.

To sum up: Ben T'eo does exactly what he says on the tin, he is a tackle breaking centre with a good eye for a line, a good offload, an ability to make big hits and break tackles who never pledged allegiance to Leinster beyond his contract. He never was a project player and he has served us well up to now. We have little chance of seeing him in The Supa Dupa cup for 2 seasons at least and on the slim chance he does get some England caps I think we should have had plenty of time to come up with some strategy to deal with him because after all, at the end of the day, he's a lesser version of Manu Tualagi, and we'll have to deal with him again at some stage.

[neill_m]

According to @RuaidhriOC Te'o is getting £366k/year at Worcester next season - hard to compete with that.

[Ruckedtobits]

Leinster MUST qualify for Play-offs of Pro12 as this intrinsically impacts on next Season. Therefore, we need T'eo to be as good, or better, than he has been already. IMO, he and Luke are on the verge of being a very competent centre partnership. With Ringrose and Ferg / Dave Kearney on wings, we can score tries in Pro 12 and finish in play-off positions. Unlike in the old Heino, we must perform this year and not just develop players during 6Nations. Once again, we may lose up to 15 players to Irish Squad and this is going to create huge pressure, particularly in 2nd row. Also, Leo will have to re-integrate the international players again after the 6 Nations.

Judicious selection and the creation of new combinations like Dooley, Treacy and Furlong; Mick McC and Molony or Denton and Molony and JVdF / Leavy, Dominic R and Conan will be essential during the 6N. These players are individually up to it but must learn how to win games together, as JVdF pointed out in his interview.

They have grown their confidence, individually, to recognise they are worthy of being selected. The next development must be to learn that being selected on a team which loses, isn't worth a curse. Winning is what you play the game for. As to how they do it, they would be well advised to learn from the Jap's RWC performance that precision and execution can make up for any perceived deficences in physique. Surely there's no Leinster player who doesn't believe he can play as well as any Japanese international?

[fourthirtythree]

But our success in the pro 12 was heavily based on the form we showed during the 6n. Last year we trapped ourselves into playing the experienced players week in, week out. Normally we gave players a chance and reaped the reward during the 6n.

The two are not incompatible, in fact last year showed us that they are probably inseparable. Develop players and do well in the league.

[curates_egg]

Ben Te'o has been learning his trade at Leinster for others to benefit.
This should stop immediately and he should only be used in an emergency.
Other players should be given the game time to learn what Te'o has now forfeited.
That's a tough approach but rugby is a business.

I understand the sentiment but disagree with the conclusion.
We should now use Te'o exactly to suit our needs.
That means playing him when he's required to win Pro12 games: he remains a strong gameline breaker and we will need that.
No point in investing in him anymore though.
Ringrose should start at least one of the remaining two ERCC games, as we now need to focus on his development.

This episode does raise questions about the project player approach and us paying to develop league players (last season we paid him lots of money and got very little bang for our buck). Only worthwhile this season.
I don't have the answer but I would not want a repeat of Te'o.

[neiliog93]

Burrell's form has fallen off a cliff, and Twelvetrees and Brad Baritt have their strengths but don't exactly set the world alight. I could see an England centre partnership of 12.Tuilagi 13.Te'o in the 2017 Six Nations if Jonathan Joseph stays as injury prone as he has been, and Burrell's form doesn't recover.

[hugonaut]

Burrell's form has fallen off a cliff, and Twelvetrees and Brad Baritt have their strengths but don't exactly set the world alight. I could see an England centre partnership of 12.Tuilagi 13.Te'o in the 2017 Six Nations if Jonathan Joseph stays as injury prone as he has been, and Burrell's form doesn't recover.

Burrell's form fell off a cliff before the 2015 Six Nations. He was very, very ordinary in that tournament – even in the free-for-all against France, he didn't make a line break, beat a defender one-on-one or make any offloads. In that game, the rest of the six other starting English backs were on fire and he was lumpen. The other six starters [Brown, Watson, Nowell, Joseph, Ford and Youngs] combined for:

- 506m gained with the ball (84.5m average)
- 14 clean breaks (2.3/player)
- 15 defenders beaten (2.6/player)
- 6 offloads (1/player)
- 6 tries (2 for Nowell, 2 for Youngs, 1 each for Ford and Watson)

Burrell made

• - 27m with the ball
  - 0 clean breaks
  - 0 defenders beaten
  - 0 offloads
  - 0 tries

Even more tellingly, his opposite number had the biggest day of his career: Maxime Mermoz

• - 75m with the ball
  - 3 clean breaks
  - 5 defenders beaten
  - 2 offloads
  - 1 try

and even out-tackled Burrell, 7/1 against 6/1

[source: http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats ... gue=180659 ]

All of this talk about Burrell being the missing link at the World Cup and how he should have gone ahead of Burgess is a fine example of the old [ifs and buts]=[candy and nuts] equation. He didn't really justify his place in the team for the preceding tournament, and his form since RWC15 has been – if anything – worse rather than better.

[simonokeeffe]

Burrell's form has fallen off a cliff, and Twelvetrees and Brad Baritt have their strengths but don't exactly set the world alight. I could see an England centre partnership of 12.Tuilagi 13.Te'o in the 2017 Six Nations if Jonathan Joseph stays as injury prone as he has been, and Burrell's form doesn't recover.

Tuilagi and Te'o means 2 guys who cant and wont pass, Farrell would love it but dont think Jones will
BOD is in love with Eliot Daly so he'd be a more rounded option at 13, Henry Slade too

[johng]

Not just bod. I don't have bt sport, but the guy is great. Good brain, hands, can kick, where's vthe downside?

[Flakey 16]

Ben's performance yesterday against Bath just underlines what a disaster it is to see him p+ss off to Worcester .....

[simonokeeffe]

Ben's performance yesterday against Bath just underlines what a disaster it is to see him p+ss off to Worcester .....

its only a disaster if we dont get Henshaw instead

[LeinsterLeader]

Any opinions on his penalised tackle in the second half? I haven't seen any replays but from where I was sitting I thought he was lucky not to get a card

[Oldschool]

Ben's performance yesterday against Bath just underlines what a disaster it is to see him p+ss off to Worcester .....

We'll be fine, as long as Reid isn't seen as his replacement.

[simonokeeffe]

Ben's performance yesterday against Bath just underlines what a disaster it is to see him p+ss off to Worcester .....

We'll be fine, as long as Reid isn't seen as his replacement.

thatd be like replacing foi gras with pate

[Keith]

What about Paul Kinikinilau as a replacement? Big, strong Tongan and played really well for Romania in the World cup. I'm surprised he hasn't already been picked up by someone.

[Logorrhea]

Any opinions on his penalised tackle in the second half? I haven't seen any replays but from where I was sitting I thought he was lucky not to get a card

Ahh he lifted the legs but it never went beyond the vertical really, there was no force to it either. Penalty was the right call.

Careless and pointless but it wasn't dangerous.

[Peg Leg]

Any opinions on his penalised tackle in the second half? I haven't seen any replays but from where I was sitting I thought he was lucky not to get a card

Ahh he lifted the legs but it never went beyond the vertical really, there was no force to it either. Penalty was the right call.

Careless and pointless but it wasn't dangerous.

I'd agree with that, but another ref..... say.... fitzgibbon would have gone the other way, skipped the cards and gone straight for his executioners axe.

[bails]

Please dont mention that man Fitzgibbon on this Forum again

He has no place on a rugby field, in a rugby ground or on a Fans forum. He should be barred ala the Changleng brothers from Scotland

Ps i thought i saw Peter "yes thats the same ball" Allan running the line in Northampton las nite. Surely he is not supposed to go within 250 meters of a rugby stadium !

[curates_egg]

What about Paul Kinikinilau as a replacement? Big, strong Tongan and played really well for Romania in the World cup. I'm surprised he hasn't already been picked up by someone.

A quick google reveals he's a 29 year old Tongan who had to go to Romania to get a cap, is currently playing in the Romanian league and has the most uninspiring highlight reel I have ever seen for a Pacific islander. Does that not answer your question?

We have a 28 year old Irish international playing in the centre (Fitz) and are hoping to sign a 22 year old Irish international (Henshaw).
Behind them, we have: a 25 year old international (Reid), who may not be top level standard because of his defense but is a great Pro12 player and surely better than the above; and a 20 year old wunderkind, whose name I have forgotten.
We also have a few academy guys who may or may not be useful Pro12 squad players.
If we are to sign an NIQ centre in addition to Henshaw (which I doubt we would be allowed), it would want to be someone decent and not a mediocre journeyman, who will prevent some of our young cubs from getting gametime.