apple sourz wrote:I had a meeting with Paddy Baird last Thursday and basically stressed all the points you have raised Flash. While I accept that Killester have traditionally catered for a specific market they must recognise the potential for growth outside of their traditional market is greater than ever.
To that end, he agreed to review the range of travel options currently available and is due to come back to me this week. This includes interprovincial travel, away Magners League games in Scotland and Wales and he will look at the Agen trip to see if he can do anything on the price.
Failing that, I did propose that we should send submissions to other travel agents who would be glad of the business and use Maulers knowledge of the business but let's wait and see what Killester come back with.
Any update on this Apple?
Unfortunately I have heard nothing. I will try to contact him tomorrow but I am disappointed that he has not got back to me. Either he wants the business or he doesn't but I think myself and Mauler will sit down this week and write off to a few travel companies.
Considering that most of us go abroad on summer holidays as well as the rugby trips, the potential within the Leinster supporter base is huge. If Killester are unable or unwilling to recognise that, their loss.
apple sourz wrote:
Unfortunately I have heard nothing. I will try to contact him tomorrow but I am disappointed that he has not got back to me. Either he wants the business or he doesn't but I think myself and Mauler will sit down this week and write off to a few travel companies.
Considering that most of us go abroad on summer holidays as well as the rugby trips, the potential within the Leinster supporter base is huge. If Killester are unable or unwilling to recognise that, their loss.
You have to wonder how interested they are. The official site still refers to last years fixtures. They probably feel they won't get the numbers going to away Celtic League matches and it may be that we would have to guarantee a certain number of people travelling (I know this is a chicken and egg argument). The Heiniken Cup is sexy and they can sell those packages so they load them. As against that, the suggested €85 for the interprovincials does not seem unreasonable. But if the branch is to make KT the offical travel partner then KT should offer the service.
My views on it are that Killester Travel are only doing what any other business would do - maximise profit. The main offenders are Leinster Rugby. Its they who have (for some unknown reason) granted them the 'Official Travel Partners to Leinster Rugby' title. They probably were the only ones who were running any flights (and may be the only ones who organise their flights to Scotland and Wales in the ML) to away games in the H Cup up to 3 seasons ago when the only people who travelled were the players parents and Crazy Dave's Old Man!
Anyway, for us to go it alone would be extremely difficult, we would need bonding if we were to set up a 'Tour Operator' This can be in excess of €100k
However ... the tack I would suggest is getting a Tour Operator to work in conjunction with us - A couple of years ago I mentioned to my boss after I came back from the international in Paris. That in the couple of hours I was at the airport in Charles de Gaul there were 3 charter flights to Dublin, one to Shannon, two to Cork and two to Belfast. Not to mention the regular schedule Aer Lingus, City Jet and Ryanair flights to Ireland. She was amazed that there were so many people interested in flying to watch Ireland. And I'm sure would be equally surprised to hear that there were 5,000 or more in Toulouse. And said to me 'Why are we not in this game?'
So firstly, if we do try to get a travel partner, we would need to educate them of the large numbers travelling. To us, we think everyone in Ireland know there were 5000 in Toulouse or 2,000 in Bath, but the vast majority of people don't but once they do know it will be easier to persuade them.
Once this is done, then most of the matches are played in the Low season for Tour Operators (Nov - Apr) - this means that there are less people travelling with Tour Operators, and also more importantly there are surplus aircraft in Europe available.
The most expensive part of chartering a plane is what's known as the 'Empty Leg' this is where the plane leaves Dublin full, and fly s to say Toulouse. But it then cant sit on the tarmac (unless its a day trip) so it fly s back to Dublin - but empty this time. Then it fly s back to Toulouse empty and picks up the passengers and goes back to Dublin full. So the cost of the plane per leg is say 10,000 so that is 40,000 in total - but half of the flights are empty, and that cost has to be factored into the price the passengers pay.
Ryanair put on extra flights when Munster played Toulouse in the Semi Final and Leinster played Perpeignon - They were able to get away without this - they flew Munster fans to Toulouse, picked up (500 or so) Perpignon suppoters and flew them to Dublin, then next day brought them back to France and collected the Munster ones. Hence negatiating the need for any Empty Legs.
But I do think we should approach a Tour Operator - or indeed a Travel Agent. We would need to go to them and say 'look we have 150 who will defo book, we are prepared to pay €200, we know it costs you €150 so you make €50 per head' rather than them charging us €499 as they are at present.
'VJ Singh hits more balls than Elton John's chin' - David Feherty
Mauler wrote:
The most expensive part of chartering a plane is what's known as the 'Empty Leg' this is where the plane leaves Dublin full, and fly s to say Toulouse. But it then cant sit on the tarmac (unless its a day trip) so it fly s back to Dublin - but empty this time. Then it fly s back to Toulouse empty and picks up the passengers and goes back to Dublin full. So the cost of the plane per leg is say 10,000 so that is 40,000 in total - but half of the flights are empty, and that cost has to be factored into the price the passengers pay.
This is the bit that I don't understand, why can't the plane stay on the tarmac at the destination? Surely it would be cheaper to put the crew up for a night and pay for their down time then to fly the plane out and back empty.
I assume the crew are paid per hour when they are away from home, else they get a huge allowance, once that is factored in with the rental of the plane and the space at the foreign airport, it could work out cheaper just to fly them home.
I really don't think it is a goer, unless you have a group of people who know the business and have a lot of spare time on their hands
Mauler wrote:
The most expensive part of chartering a plane is what's known as the 'Empty Leg' this is where the plane leaves Dublin full, and fly s to say Toulouse. But it then cant sit on the tarmac (unless its a day trip) so it fly s back to Dublin - but empty this time. Then it fly s back to Toulouse empty and picks up the passengers and goes back to Dublin full. So the cost of the plane per leg is say 10,000 so that is 40,000 in total - but half of the flights are empty, and that cost has to be factored into the price the passengers pay.
This is the bit that I don't understand, why can't the plane stay on the tarmac at the destination? Surely it would be cheaper to put the crew up for a night and pay for their down time then to fly the plane out and back empty.
Anyone for a day trip to Agen?
I'd do that for 200 quid.
Rexy, we don't know till we try. What Mauler is proposing is to ask the question. All we need to do is go to a travel agent/tour operator and see if its an option.
HEINEKEN CUP - EDINBURGH GUNNERS V LEINSTER RUGBY - Murrayfield (Sunday 29th October 2006 Kick Off 13:00)
We have organised a 1 night trip to the Scottish Capital. The Hotel Menzies is a 10 min walk from Princes Street. Included in the package is flights and Airport Transfers. Match tickets available also.
PACKAGE 1: Menzies Hotel Edinburgh from * €299 pps / SGL €435
PACKAGE 2: George Intercontinental from €389 pps / SGL €535
* We have a limited number at this amount Early booking advised
EXTRAS
Airport taxes €50 , Match ticket €tba (guaranteed availability)
FLIGHT DETAILS:
Schedule Ex Dublin to Edinburgh departs 13:20 on Saturday and returns departing Edinburgh 20:30 on the Sunday night.
HEINEKEN CUP - AGEN V LEINSTER (Agen Saturday 16th December 2006 Kick Off 16:30)
We are running a 1 night trip staying in either Toulouse or Agen. Toulouse is about a 1 hour transfer to Agen. Flight will be a charter flight from Dublin into Toulouse. Agen is a much quiter town and the hotels are not as good as hotels in Toulouse.
PACKAGE 1: Holiday Inn Toulouse Centre €475 pps / SGL €535
PACKAGE 2: Atlantic Hotel Agen Centre €425 pps /SGL €450
Seperately, should we write a letter to the branch requesting rationale for Killester's appointment/prices? If we could get 40 or 50 signatures to the letter it'd be difficult just to fob off.....
Flash Gordon wrote:Seperately, should we write a letter to the branch requesting rationale for Killester's appointment/prices? If we could get 40 or 50 signatures to the letter it'd be difficult just to fob off.....
seperate letters would really piss them off
but lads i think we are fighting a lossesing battle why not screw the branch and kilester as things wont change there (the branch need kilester forthere own cheap flights to games)
Flash Gordon wrote:Seperately, should we write a letter to the branch requesting rationale for Killester's appointment/prices? If we could get 40 or 50 signatures to the letter it'd be difficult just to fob off.....
seperate letters would really piss them off
but lads i think we are fighting a lossesing battle why not screw the branch and kilester as things wont change there (the branch need kilester forthere own cheap flights to games)
why noy just short our own sh!t out
Thats okay for us Ktf, we're going to go regardless, and we'll probably make our own way. But there are people out there who want to go to away games, but also want to do so on a package, provided its reasonably priced
Best of luck with this folks. Going from what I heard about the MSC approaches to various travel agents etc you may find yourselves p*ssing against the wind.
McCloud wrote:Best of luck with this folks. Going from what I heard about the MSC approaches to various travel agents etc you may find yourselves p*ssing against the wind.
Thats the fear alright, because of the bond Travel agents operate in an oligopolistic way, and one will not try to outdo another
Flash Gordon wrote:Seperately, should we write a letter to the branch requesting rationale for Killester's appointment/prices? If we could get 40 or 50 signatures to the letter it'd be difficult just to fob off.....
seperate letters would really piss them off
but lads i think we are fighting a lossesing battle why not screw the branch and kilester as things wont change there (the branch need kilester forthere own cheap flights to games)
why noy just short our own sh!t out
Thats okay for us Ktf, we're going to go regardless, and we'll probably make our own way. But there are people out there who want to go to away games, but also want to do so on a package, provided its reasonably priced
to the KTF a sinario like the agen one screams of a nice big PR stunt for a certain ex Clongowes and trinity gradutate (well clongowes graduate trinity attendee)airline chief to do a agen day trip esp ith teh world cup in 12 months
I think it's simple enough, all you have to do is get some tour operator to give a cheaper alternative and that could be done by someone apporaching them with an idea.
'Oh miss PacMan, i'd sex that bow right off your head!'
'Eat those dots, you naughty, naughty girl!'
"HEINEKEN CUP - EDINBURGH GUNNERS V LEINSTER RUGBY - Murrayfield (Sunday 29th October 2006 Kick Off 13:00)
We have organised a 1 night trip to the Scottish Capital. The Hotel Menzies is a 10 min walk from Princes Street. Included in the package is flights and Airport Transfers. Match tickets available also.
PACKAGE 1: Menzies Hotel Edinburgh from * €299 pps / SGL €435
PACKAGE 2: George Intercontinental from €389 pps / SGL €535
* We have a limited number at this amount Early booking advised
EXTRAS Airport taxes €50 , Match ticket €tba (guaranteed availability)
FLIGHT DETAILS:
Schedule Ex Dublin to Edinburgh departs 13:20 on Saturday and returns departing Edinburgh 20:30 on the Sunday night.
So you're looking at about €349 plus your match ticket for a one night trip (as the cheapest option!)
While most people I know are doing the two day trip for about €170-€200.
This really is beyond a joke!
Who'd be dumb enough to pay these prices?
And it's nothing to do with AFFlucence, cause even the AFFluent hate being ripped off!
I like the way they guarantee availibility of tickets too, as if there's any chance of being a shortage of them.
Donny Brooke wrote:"HEINEKEN CUP - EDINBURGH GUNNERS V LEINSTER RUGBY - Murrayfield (Sunday 29th October 2006 Kick Off 13:00)
We have organised a 1 night trip to the Scottish Capital. The Hotel Menzies is a 10 min walk from Princes Street. Included in the package is flights and Airport Transfers. Match tickets available also.
PACKAGE 1: Menzies Hotel Edinburgh from * €299 pps / SGL €435
PACKAGE 2: George Intercontinental from €389 pps / SGL €535
* We have a limited number at this amount Early booking advised
EXTRAS Airport taxes €50 , Match ticket €tba (guaranteed availability)
FLIGHT DETAILS:
Schedule Ex Dublin to Edinburgh departs 13:20 on Saturday and returns departing Edinburgh 20:30 on the Sunday night.
So you're looking at about €349 plus your match ticket for a one night trip (as the cheapest option!)
While most people I know are doing the two day trip for about €170-€200.
This really is beyond a joke!
Who'd be dumb enough to pay these prices?
And it's nothing to do with AFFlucence, cause even the AFFluent hate being ripped off!
I like the way they guarantee availibility of tickets too, as if there's any chance of being a shortage of them.
Its if they guarantee tickets for the Glaws game that the trouble will start
Donny Brooke wrote:"HEINEKEN CUP - EDINBURGH GUNNERS V LEINSTER RUGBY - Murrayfield (Sunday 29th October 2006 Kick Off 13:00)
We have organised a 1 night trip to the Scottish Capital. The Hotel Menzies is a 10 min walk from Princes Street. Included in the package is flights and Airport Transfers. Match tickets available also.
PACKAGE 1: Menzies Hotel Edinburgh from * €299 pps / SGL €435
PACKAGE 2: George Intercontinental from €389 pps / SGL €535
* We have a limited number at this amount Early booking advised
EXTRAS Airport taxes €50 , Match ticket €tba (guaranteed availability)
FLIGHT DETAILS:
Schedule Ex Dublin to Edinburgh departs 13:20 on Saturday and returns departing Edinburgh 20:30 on the Sunday night.
So you're looking at about €349 plus your match ticket for a one night trip (as the cheapest option!)
While most people I know are doing the two day trip for about €170-€200.
This really is beyond a joke!
Who'd be dumb enough to pay these prices?
And it's nothing to do with AFFlucence, cause even the AFFluent hate being ripped off!
I like the way they guarantee availibility of tickets too, as if there's any chance of being a shortage of them.
Its if they guarantee tickets for the Glaws game that the trouble will start
If we're restricted on ticket access and tout travel guarantee them, we're fockin marching on the branch.
I spoke to an employee of the branch last year on the subject of keeping some pressure on Killester in relation to prices. I was shocked by the attitude of "it's not our problem. The branch doesn't gve a stuff." This attitude comes right from the top. They might tell us how important we are to the team but they are not the slightest bit interested in doing anything to help keep the price down.
Having said that I have used KT twice and it is definitely less hassle than booking trains, planes and automobiles yourself. Some of us can't take a whole weekend away from home unfortunately so we have to go with the one night trips or even day returns.
