Northampton Saints v Leinster BT Friday 7.45

[jezzer]

Re McGrath - he's a young player with loads of promise and obviously I want him to become the 9 the team needs, but he took far too much on himself last night and at the moment doesn't have the ability to match his ambition. That completely unnecessary offload that went straight into touch was a prime example. As was pointed out above, that kind of error kills a team's momentum and it happened way too often last night.

+1
Agree 100% with this analysis. I believe that young players must have confidence to graduate upwards. I totally accept that McGrath has an excellent rugby brain and many of the attributes that will see him move to regular international exposure but he's not there yet and his mistakes are too often because current ability doesn't match ambition.

He was unfortunate with missed tackle on Hanrahan but most other mistakes were self-created. Box-kick out on full; missed pass to supporting runner after clean line-break; pass directly to touch; knock-on at maul whilst looking elsewhere. Each of these is a function of a momentary lapse in concentration, which he is prone to.

He is improving. His pass may never be perfect but he has excellent rugby instincts. He should lose the flapping hands and bite his tongue more often in communicating with referees. Apart from that, just keep focussing on his work-ons.

He's a very likeable player. Bags of heart, huge motor, great scramble defence. But he's not as effective as he thinks he is because he tries to much stuff at inopportune times. Needs to calm down. He tried a snipe out of a defensive ruck deep in our own 22, when the Saints back row were just waiting to gobble him up. We were lucky not to give away a penno, then had to set up a pick and drive phase to let Luke get off the floor, back at the base and put up a (not great) box kick. The whole episode was just dumb. Not because he shouldn't be looking for a break, but because it was clearly not the situation for it. If it isn't on, don't try it.

[Peg Leg]

Re McGrath - he's a young player with loads of promise and obviously I want him to become the 9 the team needs, but he took far too much on himself last night and at the moment doesn't have the ability to match his ambition. That completely unnecessary offload that went straight into touch was a prime example. As was pointed out above, that kind of error kills a team's momentum and it happened way too often last night.

+1
Agree 100% with this analysis. I believe that young players must have confidence to graduate upwards. I totally accept that McGrath has an excellent rugby brain and many of the attributes that will see him move to regular international exposure but he's not there yet and his mistakes are too often because current ability doesn't match ambition.

He was unfortunate with missed tackle on Hanrahan but most other mistakes were self-created. Box-kick out on full; missed pass to supporting runner after clean line-break; pass directly to touch; knock-on at maul whilst looking elsewhere. Each of these is a function of a momentary lapse in concentration, which he is prone to.

He is improving. His pass may never be perfect but he has excellent rugby instincts. He should lose the flapping hands and bite his tongue more often in communicating with referees. Apart from that, just keep focussing on his work-ons.

He's a very likeable player. Bags of heart, huge motor, great scramble defence. But he's not as effective as he thinks he is because he tries to much stuff at inopportune times. Needs to calm down. He tried a snipe out of a defensive ruck deep in our own 22, when the Saints back row were just waiting to gobble him up. We were lucky not to give away a penno, then had to set up a pick and drive phase to let Luke get off the floor, back at the base and put up a (not great) box kick. The whole episode was just dumb. Not because he shouldn't be looking for a break, but because it was clearly not the situation for it. If it isn't on, don't try it.

That one was a bit too Paul Marshall for my liking

[papachino]

Le Match:

Show Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RESuc79k7s4

If you get a chance, just watch the mauls and the rucks, they were a complete mess !!!
Also, Henshaw was awful... awful !!! Missed tackles all over the park, knock-on's at crucial times, negative yards on attack, pointless kicks... just awful !!

[offshorerules]

Can anyone tell me what the tariff is for what Hartley did last night. Lots of people calling lifetime bans etc etc but I think we all know that's highly unlikely. The commentary said 6 week starting point but I found one decision for a LI player getting 4 and then got that reduced. So Hartley can hardly rely on previous good behaviour but does anyone really think he will be out for the start of the 6 nations which is 8 weeks away.

[matt]

Worth listening to Tom Wood interview with Radio Northampton on BBC website where he ends by saying they have had at least 6 acts of indicipline recently and it has to stop.

Leinster & Ireland discipline/penalties conceded have been key in recent success and long may it remain. Barry Daly sending off v Scarlets was unfortunate and not deliberate but it shows that even if your timing is slightly off you risk a card.

Thankfully while we are aggressive we don't have people like Hartley who lose the cool if things not going their way (he had just been pushed back in scrum).

Some evidence that Luke and SOB need to not go overboard in protesting refereeing decisions. No real problems up to now but just be watchful if refs not happy with it as was commented on BT last night

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Ah I don't think Luke was looking for an opportunity to snipe out of our 22. He was looking to box kick but they closed him down and he felt he couldn't get the ball away so just dummied and went. Now you could argue that he could have arranged for better cover or passed to Ross Byrne, but I don't think he was trying to be clever/flashy there.

I seem to say this after every game now but it just bugs me that JGP/our previous 9s don't come under the same scrutiny. JGP threw a pass to deck last night and nobody mentions it, Luke makes a mistake and it's criticised far more. That's a general point though, he made way too many errors last night, no denying that. It's so frustrating because I think he has all the tools he needs in his locker. I know people will criticise his pass but I think it's much improved. The two knock ons were especially frustrating, he's far too good to be doing that. He did lots of good things last night too though and was brilliant last week, seems to be getting more confident about playing his own game now, far more like he played at underage level. Fingers crossed he can just cut out the errors. He makes too many of them to make me think he'll ever truly iron them out, but stop things like those silly knock ons and suddenly he'd be a much better player.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

There was a kick through to the corner in the first half by Meyler following which BOD highlighted the huge space he could and should have kicked into in front of the posts. Immediately after the ball found touch RK was losing his reason with someone (couldn't see who) for presumably not covering that space. It was a major problem more than once, and won't go unpunished against better teams.

Northampton look a real mess. It's a shame to see a proper club like this in such a state.

Pretty sure it was Adam Byrne, thought I lip read Kearney saying "Byrno!"

He reminds me an awful lot of Trimble but without the confidence and with less of a rugby brain. The confidence is building though and it's not like he's played many games for us yet. Hopefully he'll continue to improve with more games and playing with a settled backline, the latter part of that will be tricky though.

[paddyor]

I thought he looked nervous from the start and It bears repeating but he was served up cr@p ball all game. Doesn't excuse some of the mistakes but probably contributed a bit.

[jezzer]

Ah I don't think Luke was looking for an opportunity to snipe out of our 22. He was looking to box kick but they closed him down and he felt he couldn't get the ball away so just dummied and went. Now you could argue that he could have arranged for better cover or passed to Ross Byrne, but I don't think he was trying to be clever/flashy there.

I seem to say this after every game now but it just bugs me that JGP/our previous 9s don't come under the same scrutiny. JGP threw a pass to deck last night and nobody mentions it, Luke makes a mistake and it's criticised far more. That's a general point though, he made way too many errors last night, no denying that. It's so frustrating because I think he has all the tools he needs in his locker. I know people will criticise his pass but I think it's much improved. The two knock ons were especially frustrating, he's far too good to be doing that. He did lots of good things last night too though and was brilliant last week, seems to be getting more confident about playing his own game now, far more like he played at underage level. Fingers crossed he can just cut out the errors. He makes too many of them to make me think he'll ever truly iron them out, but stop things like those silly knock ons and suddenly he'd be a much better player.

Agree with all of that. Posh Kiwi was poor in his last start (or last but one) for Leinster and he got fairly lambasted on here for his bad game.

[artaneboy]

Ah I don't think Luke was looking for an opportunity to snipe out of our 22. He was looking to box kick but they closed him down and he felt he couldn't get the ball away so just dummied and went. Now you could argue that he could have arranged for better cover or passed to Ross Byrne, but I don't think he was trying to be clever/flashy there.

I seem to say this after every game now but it just bugs me that JGP/our previous 9s don't come under the same scrutiny. JGP threw a pass to deck last night and nobody mentions it, Luke makes a mistake and it's criticised far more. That's a general point though, he made way too many errors last night, no denying that. It's so frustrating because I think he has all the tools he needs in his locker. I know people will criticise his pass but I think it's much improved. The two knock ons were especially frustrating, he's far too good to be doing that. He did lots of good things last night too though and was brilliant last week, seems to be getting more confident about playing his own game now, far more like he played at underage level. Fingers crossed he can just cut out the errors. He makes too many of them to make me think he'll ever truly iron them out, but stop things like those silly knock ons and suddenly he'd be a much better player.

It's not a 'zero-sum game' as you note. But the reason Luke gets criticised more than Jamie is because he makes more mistakes. It's as simple as that, and I think you effectively acknowledge that in your analysis. Some would claim that he also tries more than JGP, but while initiative is great an' all- there's not a lot of profit for the team if you try stuff that doesn't work. Dare I say, he should just keep it simple for now until he masters the basics, but I suppose McGrath's "unique selling point" is his versatility in using the SH bag of tricks.

Having said all that, I have become increasingly impressed with Luke over the last period. I still think Jamie is our best 9 but Luke does offer something different. If he can continue to improve his passing- it's still too slow and occasionally inaccurate for top level rugby, he could become a top player for us and ireland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wixfjord]

I think we'll continue to use McGrath/JGP as Schmidt did with Redser/Boss.
McGrath will probably start most game, particularly the stickier ones, and JGP will add pace and threat from bench.
He might also look to start JGP in games when we want speed and will likely be on front foot - Mont at home for example.

As for JGP not coming under the same scrutiny, as someone rightly said, he was (rightly) lambasted for his performance in Lllanelli (partly by you also LRIP I think?).
McGrath gets criticised because it's frustrating how many silly errors he makes. Would be Ireland's #21 if he cut them out.

[wixfjord]

One thing that's been really noticeable in our play this season is the use of the kick as an attacking option.
Byrne particularly uses it a lot, and often to great effect, but Carbery also has it in his arsenal (remember the try against Glasgow away). Adds a nice string to our bow, particularly with Isa/A Byrne on the wings.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

As for JGP not coming under the same scrutiny, as someone rightly said, he was (rightly) lambasted for his performance in Lllanelli (partly by you also LRIP I think?).

He was but you might remember that I'd an argument with Artaneboy because he said about JGP's passing being better than Luke in that game based on one bad pass from Luke, yet the bad passes from JGP were ignored. Not that I want to get into that again but that's the kind of thing I mean.

[artaneboy]

As for JGP not coming under the same scrutiny, as someone rightly said, he was (rightly) lambasted for his performance in Lllanelli (partly by you also LRIP I think?).

He was but you might remember that I'd an argument with Artaneboy because he said about JGP's passing being better than Luke in that game based on one bad pass from Luke, yet the bad passes from JGP were ignored. Not that I want to get into that again but that's the kind of thing I mean.

Yes- let's not get into again. Except my point was not based on that one terrible pass meaning McGrath was a worse SH that JGP. The terrible pass from Luke was a particularly egregious example that illustrated shared culpability for bad passing in that match, designed to counter Richard's (I think?) claim that Jamie's mediocre game would stop speculation on he being better than McGrath. It was that fine a point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LeRouxIsPHat]

about JGP's passing being better than Luke in that game

my point was not based on that one terrible pass meaning McGrath was a worse SH that JGP.

Not that I'm getting into it again...

...but those are two very different points.

[ronk]

Leinster have been doing that since time immemorial.

Under Schmidt Leinster became way more clinical in visits to 22. Unfortunately MOC did his best to turn that around

Under schmidt it was a huge problem from 5metres out too and cost us plenty. However the team sorted it out with the help of a couple of famous signings in the forwards and some time on the training pitch

It was mostly good defence from a team at home during their best spell of the game (either side of halftime until Hartley came on).

[riocard911]

about JGP's passing being better than Luke in that game

my point was not based on that one terrible pass meaning McGrath was a worse SH that JGP.

Not that I'm getting into it again...

...but those are two very different points.

I certainly amn't getting into it again. What I will say though is, that JGP's try on Friday was dreamboat stuff. He made eejits of Burrell and two others in the course of a half pitch length shimmy from the sideline to under the posts. Beau-ti-ful!!!!

[Ruckedtobits]

Almost passed over in the midst of the euphoria of claiming 5 point away victory at this stage in the competition, was the pleasure of seeing Rob Kearney attacking the gain line and showing some of the talent going forward which developed his reputation almost a decade ago.

Taking the ball as first receiver when Carbery was trapped at a previous ruck, he took a great line to pierce the Saints mid-field and then timed his pass perfectly to put Gary Ringrose in for a sparkling first try. That he repeated the line-break shortly after suggests that he is being encouraged to add to our attacking options, when the opportunities present themselves.

The only note of caution might be in relation to the acres of space that Robert normally patrols. Whether it was really good kicking from various Saints players or, more likely, the inexperience of Adam Byrne in reacting to the absence of his full-back, the fact is that at least three balls bounced deep in Leinster territory and almost caused havoc. Leinster fans are not used to that sight and no doubt the Girvinator will have that topic on his shortlist for discussion with the back-three next Monday.

However, hopefully he can adjust this coverage, ideally without losing the option of Rob Kearney in attacking mode

[jezzer]

the pleasure of seeing Rob Kearney attacking the gain line and showing some of the talent going forward which developed his reputation almost a decade ago.

Taking the ball as first receiver when Carbery was trapped at a previous ruck, he took a great line to pierce the Saints mid-field and then timed his pass perfectly to put Gary Ringrose in for a sparkling first try.

What set that linebreak up was a nice show and go with a strong handoff. Rob should use that handoff more. He's a big unit who doesn't have the burst or wiggle to break lines like a centre/winger would. But he can put a guy on his arse with a good fend or handoff, esp if he stands them up like he did with his dummy on Friday for the Carbery try.

[simonokeeffe]

Furlong named in Midi Olympiques XV of the round