Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

[johng]

[ronk]

Ah yes, I forgot about that one. Ross Byrne was only selected to go to Australia to force Joey Carbery to go to Munster. Honest to God, could it get any more ridiculous?

It was the decisive event that forced his decision.

The idea of the 3 RWC outhalves being from Leinster was listed here as an essential reason why Carbery couldn't stay in Leinster, but it's a brand new situation that came up only as Carbery was wavering. Joe said that he thought Carbery was going to stay and that it was a surprise. The only thing he could have done to scare Carbery more would have been to leave him at home entirely and bring Keatley. But that would have damaged his relationship with Joey.

Given the shenanigans that are still going on in public, it's not impossible.

[domhnallj]

I was in a bit of rush this morning so I may have misheard, but on Morning Ireland Joe said that the decision to play Joey in the first test was made before he was aware of the move to Munster.

[molloyjh]

[janeymac08]

The Munster branch lost €11m on Thomond. They just sacked half their academy because they were pretending to be developing players when they were really just making up numbers.

How the heck did the Munster branch lose €11m on Thomond?

[Dave Cahill]

The Munster branch lost €11m on Thomond. They just sacked half their academy because they were pretending to be developing players when they were really just making up numbers.

How the heck did the Munster branch lose €11m on Thomond?

Yeah Ronk.

It was closer to €15m

[ronk]

That's a lot, will we have to send many more elite players to them?

[desperado]

I think we collectively need to calm down with the Munster criticisms that lack any credibility. It’s embarrassing and there is enough substance to our rivalry without resorting to the guff we’re reading here

Well said.
Why do some find it so hard to except that for Joey to keep his international squad place he needed more game time at ten. Leinster haven’t played him enough there (for various reasons) so he has to move to find it. It annoys me but that what Joey has to do. We haven’t given him a run of games at 10 this year, Byrne gets the nod most of the time.
Anyway Joey has his starting place for the first test against the Aussies now.


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Agree fully with MelReb comment. Some ridiculously embarassing anti Munster rubbish. Returning to the subject of the thread though; I'm not sure I'd agree with you. If Joey had stayed; who know's if he wouldn't have gotten game time at 10 in 2018/19. With the ltd game time he got this season he's still starting a test v Oz. I cannot see how anyone would be ahead of him for a bench place (not just squad) in RWC 2019 regardless. I don't think Joey had to do what Joey did. He'd still be there in 2019, and (hopefully) he'll be good enough to start 2023, 2027, and 2031. There are alot of factors to his limited gametime at 10 last season (well documented) that could have been addressed this coming year (at Leinster) which would have been mutually beneficial to JC, Ross, Leinster and Ireland. Joey blinked unfortunately.

[Blueberry]

I think we collectively need to calm down with the Munster criticisms that lack any credibility. It’s embarrassing and there is enough substance to our rivalry without resorting to the guff we’re reading here

Well said.
Why do some find it so hard to except that for Joey to keep his international squad place he needed more game time at ten. Leinster haven’t played him enough there (for various reasons) so he has to move to find it. It annoys me but that what Joey has to do. We haven’t given him a run of games at 10 this year, Byrne gets the nod most of the time.
Anyway Joey has his starting place for the first test against the Aussies now.


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Agree fully with MelReb comment. Some ridiculously embarassing anti Munster rubbish. Returning to the subject of the thread though; I'm not sure I'd agree with you. If Joey had stayed; who know's if he wouldn't have gotten game time at 10 in 2018/19. With the ltd game time he got this season he's still starting a test v Oz. I cannot see how anyone would be ahead of him for a bench place (not just squad) in RWC 2019 regardless. I don't think Joey had to do what Joey did. He'd still be there in 2019, and (hopefully) he'll be good enough to start 2023, 2027, and 2031. There are alot of factors to his limited gametime at 10 last season (well documented) that could have been addressed this coming year (at Leinster) which would have been mutually beneficial to JC, Ross, Leinster and Ireland. Joey blinked unfortunately.

Yes agreed this move to another province may have made more sense at the end of next season once Carbery had actually been able to scrap for a 10 place this year at Leinster and got a full run at it. He was so restricted with injury this year gone. Also missing out on the high quality Lancaster driven coaching in Leinster is not ideal as well as playing with Henrose, Kearney etc and learning more from J10. Don't think he'll get anything close in Munster. Yes, the short term narrative of him getting more playing time at 10 for the WC has obviously moved this on.

By the way it's all well and good to dismiss the discussion on here as anti Munster rubbish but there are some serious problems with our southern cousins and if it continues apace, it is going to continue to impact on Leinster and the national team. If your perspective comes from the angle of essentially structuring the provinces as franchisees with us all pulling from a pool of Irish players that's fine and this is all anti-Munster rubbish and it's all irrelevant. If on the other hand you don't want this and believe in keeping the provinces predominately local in terms of player origination then I think we have a significant problem down south. It's not just impacting on us by the way, talk to them up North and they are looking at Munster too - Joey Carbery and Tadhg Beirne and arguably even Mike Haley would have filled gaps up North and it's not clear as day to many as to why Munster's need was greater than Ulster's in these areas.

Carbery moving does potentially have huge issues for Leinster next season if we ship a couple of knocks, it impacts on depth and quality cover in our back-line in a couple of slots. I don't think there is anything wrong with looking at this in depth and discussing bigger issues down south which are impacting on us. Ignore it fine but don't try to dismiss some genuine and well founded concerns by making it out as reactionary anti-Munster rubbish. Yes plenty of the comments were tongue in cheek with some flowery language used but if you can't see the serious problems in Munster I'm surprised, they are as clear as day to many of us and from chats I've had with Munster Fans some are expressing serious concerns too.

Anyway good luck to Carbery and crew v Australia on Saturday and let's hope the James Ryan run can continue.....

[thecomedian]

..

[thecomedian]

I think we collectively need to calm down with the Munster criticisms that lack any credibility. It’s embarrassing and there is enough substance to our rivalry without resorting to the guff we’re reading here

Well said.
Why do some find it so hard to except that for Joey to keep his international squad place he needed more game time at ten. Leinster haven’t played him enough there (for various reasons) so he has to move to find it. It annoys me but that what Joey has to do. We haven’t given him a run of games at 10 this year, Byrne gets the nod most of the time.
Anyway Joey has his starting place for the first test against the Aussies now.


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Agree fully with MelReb comment. Some ridiculously embarassing anti Munster rubbish. Returning to the subject of the thread though; I'm not sure I'd agree with you. If Joey had stayed; who know's if he wouldn't have gotten game time at 10 in 2018/19. With the ltd game time he got this season he's still starting a test v Oz. I cannot see how anyone would be ahead of him for a bench place (not just squad) in RWC 2019 regardless. I don't think Joey had to do what Joey did. He'd still be there in 2019, and (hopefully) he'll be good enough to start 2023, 2027, and 2031. There are alot of factors to his limited gametime at 10 last season (well documented) that could have been addressed this coming year (at Leinster) which would have been mutually beneficial to JC, Ross, Leinster and Ireland. Joey blinked unfortunately.

Look we don’t know for certain but he definitely wouldn’t have left unless there was a big reason. It could be pressure from Joe, not being guaranteed game time in the 10 position after Sexton. Maybe the Leinster management said the prefer Byrne there at the moment.
He was previously very happy to be playing for Leinster either at 10 or 15.

I do think that unless he was playing his majority of his rugby at 10 next year he would lose the back up spot to Sexton.





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[thecomedian]

I think we collectively need to calm down with the Munster criticisms that lack any credibility. It’s embarrassing and there is enough substance to our rivalry without resorting to the guff we’re reading here

Well said.
Why do some find it so hard to except that for Joey to keep his international squad place he needed more game time at ten. Leinster haven’t played him enough there (for various reasons) so he has to move to find it. It annoys me but that what Joey has to do. We haven’t given him a run of games at 10 this year, Byrne gets the nod most of the time.
Anyway Joey has his starting place for the first test against the Aussies now.


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Eh yeah, on the back of "limited" game time at 10 for Leinster - unless you're suggesting that it's some sort of IRFU reward for breaking his contract?

No I’m not suggesting that.
But it’s fair to say that Schmidt is happy with the decision for next year.


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[ronk]

Ross Byrne played the most minutes of any Leinster player this year. Next year fitness and form permitting, he’ll match that.

Carbery had leverage to get himself time at 10 for Leinster.

When he gets back from the tour after a late start he’ll have to hit the ground quickly before the Heineken Cup. He’ll have managed Schminutes. Whoever gets the jersey in his absence will be fighting for his career, knowing there’s a narrow window to impress while Carbery is learning the system.


I don’t know how stubborn Joe is after putting his neck out, so I don’t know what kind of safety net Carbery has if he has a dip in form.

Players who really wanted to leave don’t have a bizarre series of meetings reported by the media. They don’t talk about losing sleep before they make the decision, they don’t catch the IRFU off guard with their sudden change of mind. There’s no hesitation because they’ve had to drive it and work to get it. Players who are worn down by fear, uncertainty and a lack of control: they slide deeper into panic.

Whether people think he made the right move or not, I hope they see how it went down.

[theghost]

Munster just want to have their cake and eat it. They can't bare their irrelevance and are selling their soul to keep it. It's no more a Munster team now than it is a North African one or a South Leinster one, with a very generous sprinkling of Orange Men.

They're not willing to fail by giving their own a chance, they'd rather fail with a pieced together Barbarian outfit. It's the irony, by the grace of god, that gets me.

For all intents and purposes they're a failed entity. Bankrupt and have produced what, 5 players to regularly feature in the national team over 10 years? Murray, Earls, Zebo, O'Mahony... jesus, could that be all?

So as it stands they're merely a parasite on Irish rugby, draining money out of the system to soak up their write-offs, wavering attendances...they're a comical outfit. But the IRFU sustain them to an exoborenant degree to try and keep a second "strong province", I think if they put half into Ulster what they've put into Munster, they would have their two strong provinces, traditionally the two that have always been the strong provinces (bar the purple patch through the 90s into 00's) and it would make sense, it's where the two cities on the Island are, the two best schools rugby systems, the highest participation numbers, Northern Ireland still has plenty of scope for more options in sport to attract fans... I don't understand why they keep Munster on life support to the detriment of the rest of us.

The original IRFU model for professional sport was the best in the world, but it hasn't changed much since and I think there's scope for change, it's far too restrictive and controlling of the provinces and treats their success as a threat instead of finding a way to embrace it, big picture stuff here, but growing the sport and exposure and day to day fans who go every other weekend, those are the paying fans of tomorrow and they fall in love at the provinces, you need to nurture that.

I mean, Carbery may see out his career there and good luck to him if he does, I'll be interested to see if he can get near to achieving half the potential he had when he left, neither Jones or Conway came within an arses roar. The place is a cemetary where young careers go to die.

Haha the thread that keeps on Giving .

[ronk]

Fittingly it’s about an entity that keeps taking.

Coming from Munster fans that comment might look like you’re encouraging an argument that had petered out.

[theghost]

Fittingly it’s about an entity that keeps taking.

Coming from Munster fans that comment might look like you’re encouraging an argument that had petered out.

Not at all ,I've no interest in it continuing just found that coment funny and embarrassing really .
My take on carbery is he was offered a chance to possibly stake a claim for the number 1 ten slot in Munster, he still has to prove it on the field and in training .
He wasn't likely to get that in Leinster due to JS being a phenomenal player and also Leinster preference for Byrne.
Add in Joe schmidt probably doing what he had to do ie act in Ireland's interest and it was a no brainer for carbery.

[janeymac08]

Carbery moving does potentially have huge issues for Leinster next season if we ship a couple of knocks, it impacts on depth and quality cover in our back-line in a couple of slots. I don't think there is anything wrong with looking at this in depth and discussing bigger issues down south which are impacting on us. Ignore it fine but don't try to dismiss some genuine and well founded concerns by making it out as reactionary anti-Munster rubbish. Yes plenty of the comments were tongue in cheek with some flowery language used but if you can't see the serious problems in Munster I'm surprised, they are as clear as day to many of us and from chats I've had with Munster Fans some are expressing serious concerns too.

You need to have faith in your academy system. We're told its the best in the world.

[desperado]

Question for the comedian; (and everyone else who thinks if Joey had stayed at Leinster he would have lost his backup slot to Sexton for the RWC) --- Who exactly would he have lost it to?

[thecomedian]

Question for the comedian; (and everyone else who thinks if Joey had stayed at Leinster he would have lost his backup slot to Sexton for the RWC) --- Who exactly would he have lost it to?

Probably Byrne at the moment.
Your back up 10 would have to be playing 10 regularly.
I know he was injured and away with the Irish camp this season but when he was back he wasn’t given a run of games at 10.
When he played 15 there were others who could have played 15 instead.

I rate him more than Byrne. Byrne is a good kicker out of hand, though his place kicking was poor at times this season and he plays to deep.


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[Blueberry]

Carbery moving does potentially have huge issues for Leinster next season if we ship a couple of knocks, it impacts on depth and quality cover in our back-line in a couple of slots. I don't think there is anything wrong with looking at this in depth and discussing bigger issues down south which are impacting on us. Ignore it fine but don't try to dismiss some genuine and well founded concerns by making it out as reactionary anti-Munster rubbish. Yes plenty of the comments were tongue in cheek with some flowery language used but if you can't see the serious problems in Munster I'm surprised, they are as clear as day to many of us and from chats I've had with Munster Fans some are expressing serious concerns too.

You need to have faith in your academy system. We're told its the best in the world.

It needs to be with all the pilfering going on !!