Leinster Squad 18-19

[ronk]

Thanks. We're managed fairly well for a while so.

[COYBIB]

Hooker could go either way IMO. Tracy and Byrne are inconsistent and Kelleher is an unknown quality right now. I'm hopeful about them all and was particularly happy with Byrne's improvement but wouldn't exactly say it's an area of strength for us.

There's a whole raft of them at Munster. I await with bated breath the intervention to save Irish rugby.

I think we have holes all over the squad. It's great that we invest so much in our youth, but the back-row has a bit of a green feel to it now, all be it stacked with talent, hooker is a concern, I'm not sure Tracy will ever be an international level hooker, Byrne is a good bit behind him, second row we have 3 top class options which is manageable but not ideal, scrum half I don't think any of our options are particularly good, centre again just low on depth not quality, plenty coming through, just need them to step up, Tomani signing is huge to cover that area and back three, but is a short term solution, ironically we're light at 10 now also, we're one injury away from a second year academy player being in our first choice 23.

I suppose thoese holes I point out are looking at it from a complete squad perspective though, which we will never be allowed to have under IRFU control, I guess having what we have is as good as it gets, and it's good enough to do the double, so it's not too bad!

[curates_egg]

Hooker could go either way IMO. Tracy and Byrne are inconsistent and Kelleher is an unknown quality right now. I'm hopeful about them all and was particularly happy with Byrne's improvement but wouldn't exactly say it's an area of strength for us.

There's a whole raft of them at Munster. I await with bated breath the intervention to save Irish rugby.

I think we have holes all over the squad. It's great that we invest so much in our youth, but the back-row has a bit of a green feel to it now, all be it stacked with talent, hooker is a concern, I'm not sure Tracy will ever be an international level hooker, Byrne is a good bit behind him, second row we have 3 top class options which is manageable but not ideal, scrum half I don't think any of our options are particularly good, centre again just low on depth not quality, plenty coming through, just need them to step up, Tomani signing is huge to cover that area and back three, but is a short term solution, ironically we're light at 10 now also, we're one injury away from a second year academy player being in our first choice 23.

I suppose thoese holes I point out are looking at it from a complete squad perspective though, which we will never be allowed to have under IRFU control, I guess having what we have is as good as it gets, and it's good enough to do the double, so it's not too bad!

Jaysus, now I'm very pessimistic but this squad you are picking holes in is not really different from the squad that just did an unprecedented double.
It is weaker at 10, and maybe 15, and Jordi is a huge loss, but even I can see that the glass is more than half full.

I'd say we're one injury away from our academy outhalf being our starting 10 for the league though: Sexton will play a dozen games if we're lucky and he doesn't get injured. Xan or Hugo will have the stats but - outside of interpros - how many regular season Pro14 games has Sexton played since returning from Racing?

[cormac]

Hooker could go either way IMO. Tracy and Byrne are inconsistent and Kelleher is an unknown quality right now. I'm hopeful about them all and was particularly happy with Byrne's improvement but wouldn't exactly say it's an area of strength for us.

There's a whole raft of them at Munster. I await with bated breath the intervention to save Irish rugby.

I think we have holes all over the squad. It's great that we invest so much in our youth, but the back-row has a bit of a green feel to it now, all be it stacked with talent, hooker is a concern, I'm not sure Tracy will ever be an international level hooker, Byrne is a good bit behind him, second row we have 3 top class options which is manageable but not ideal, scrum half I don't think any of our options are particularly good, centre again just low on depth not quality, plenty coming through, just need them to step up, Tomani signing is huge to cover that area and back three, but is a short term solution, ironically we're light at 10 now also, we're one injury away from a second year academy player being in our first choice 23.

I suppose thoese holes I point out are looking at it from a complete squad perspective though, which we will never be allowed to have under IRFU control, I guess having what we have is as good as it gets, and it's good enough to do the double, so it's not too bad!

Jaysus, now I'm very pessimistic but this squad you are picking holes in is not really different from the squad that just did an unprecedented double.
It is weaker at 10, and maybe 15, and Jordi is a huge loss, but even I can see that the glass is more than half full.

I'd say we're one injury away from our academy outhalf being our starting 10 for the league though: Sexton will play a dozen games if we're lucky and he doesn't get injured. Xan or Hugo will have the stats but - outside of interpros - how many regular season Pro14 games has Sexton played since returning from Racing?

2015/16 3 starts 1 sub (Treviso away, Ospreys away, Treviso home, Scarlets away)
2016/17 3 starts (Ospreys home, Cardiff away, Zebre home)
2017/18 1 start (Edinburgh home)

[ronk]

Byrne can expect to play more than Carbery so. Reid might get a few games too.

Big chances for Frawley and Harry Byrne

[curates_egg]

I'd say we're one injury away from our academy outhalf being our starting 10 for the league though: Sexton will play a dozen games if we're lucky and he doesn't get injured. Xan or Hugo will have the stats but - outside of interpros - how many regular season Pro14 games has Sexton played since returning from Racing?

2015/16 3 starts 1 sub (Treviso away, Ospreys away, Treviso home, Scarlets away)
2016/17 3 starts (Ospreys home, Cardiff away, Zebre home)
2017/18 1 start (Edinburgh home)

Thanks. That's pretty bonkers (and confirms all the criticisms of the league).
That said, we got value for money out of him in his starts last season.

Hopefully, Frawley is as good as he looked in his appearances last season.

[mildlyinterested]

Frawley has gone from being a decent 12 for ireland u20, who some considered lucky to join the leinster academy, to 3rd choice 10 for leinster and likey European squad player in a season where he played the majority of his rugby at 15 until an injury to cathal marsh.

[curates_egg]

Frawley has gone from being a decent 12 for ireland u20, who some considered lucky to join the leinster academy, to 3rd choice 10 for leinster and likey European squad player in a season where he played the majority of his rugby at 15 until an injury to cathal marsh.

I thought he played at least as much at 12?
Either way, your point stands: we will almost certainly have a first choice 10 this season who has very little experience in the position at all.
It is pretty insane.

[Peg Leg]

Ross Byrne has some wonderful attributes as a 10. He now has a wonderful coach in Dr Phil. Their skills sessions will produce some very pretty offspring.

[hugonaut]

Frawley has gone from being a decent 12 for ireland u20, who some considered lucky to join the leinster academy, to 3rd choice 10 for leinster and likey European squad player in a season where he played the majority of his rugby at 15 until an injury to cathal marsh.

I have to admit that I was one of the people who thought that Frawley was pretty lucky to get in. I was happy enough that he got the nod, largely because he comes from a club background, and I always think [mistakenly or not] that there's more room for growth there than in a guy who comes from a typical feeder school, but I certainly wasn't convinced that he was going to be a Leinster senior player.

Happy to be proven wrong though - he has done very well in his chances at Pro14 level, and by the accounts I've heard is very well regarded by the Academy staff.

The other thing to bear in mind is that our 'league' backline more or less picks itself for a number of reasons:
a] the way Joe Schmidt has gone about selecting the national side [i.e. Larmour in, Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden out; Cooney in, Luke McGrath out; Carberry in, Ross Byrne ... not out, but not in either];
b] the reliability that James Lowe and Joe Tomane offer in selection terms. In theory [injury and Kolpak rules permitting] we can select them for every game we want to select them in - that could be 20-26 starts in the 2018-19 season;
c] the fact that we invested heavily in our own young backs over the last couple of seasons: Ross Byrne [46 games], Rory O'Loughlin [42 games], Adam Byrne [34 games], Barry Daly [27 games], Nick McCarthy [24 games], and are now in a position to get some profit from that investment, rather than immediately hand it up the line to Ireland [see Ringrose, Carberry, Larmour]

[#9-15]: Luke McGrath, Ross Byrne, James Lowe, Joe Tomane, Rory O'Loughlin, Fergus McFadden/Barry Daly, Dave Kearney
[#21-23]: Jamie Gibson-Park/Nick McCarthy, Ciaran Frawley, Adam Byrne/Barry Daly

Injury will come into play, and full back is a weakness.

[paulmpb]

What's Jack Kelly like in the academy?

[hugonaut]

What's Jack Kelly like in the academy?

From what I've seen of him, a long way from being able to perform to the standard we'd look for in the Pro14. Not a strong tackler, not a good positional defender, not confident in the air and a one-dimensional kicking game. Quite good going forward and obviously time is on his side in terms of improving. But he came in with a big reputation [Irish U20s captain etc.] and has struggled to live up to it.

[mildlyinterested]

Fair comments on Kelly.. needs a big season..

[LeRouxIsPHat]

What's Jack Kelly like in the academy?

From what I've seen of him, a long way from being able to perform to the standard we'd look for in the Pro14. Not a strong tackler, not a good positional defender, not confident in the air and a one-dimensional kicking game. Quite good going forward and obviously time is on his side in terms of improving. But he came in with a big reputation [Irish U20s captain etc.] and has struggled to live up to it.

I feel like he's got bags of talent and could still be good with a lot of games, but your post hints at something that I think could hold him back, in that I haven't a clue what position he should be. That said, I can't quite believe how bad he was during his cameo on the wing in that A game a while ago, but wouldn't give up on him just yet.

He's crying out for a loan move IMO. I would try to send him to London Irish to have a year playing week in week out at a decent level and hope he gains confidence and figures out what kind of player he is. If not then I can see him going the same way that Dardis did given that there's so many options in the back three.

[CiaranIrl]

What's Jack Kelly like in the academy?

From what I've seen of him, a long way from being able to perform to the standard we'd look for in the Pro14. Not a strong tackler, not a good positional defender, not confident in the air and a one-dimensional kicking game. Quite good going forward and obviously time is on his side in terms of improving. But he came in with a big reputation [Irish U20s captain etc.] and has struggled to live up to it.

I feel like he's got bags of talent and could still be good with a lot of games, but your post hints at something that I think could hold him back, in that I haven't a clue what position he should be. That said, I can't quite believe how bad he was during his cameo on the wing in that A game a while ago, but wouldn't give up on him just yet.

He's crying out for a loan move IMO. I would try to send him to London Irish to have a year playing week in week out at a decent level and hope he gains confidence and figures out what kind of player he is. If not then I can see him going the same way that Dardis did given that there's so many options in the back three.

That's a great shout LRIP.

[mildlyinterested]

Can't see a loan to Li happening. . Maybe 7's duty.. obviously was massively rated joining academy straight from school

[ronk]

You'd give him to Kidney to develop?

Connacht like to play exciting attackers. Just saying

[mildlyinterested]

You'd give him to Kidney to develop?

Connacht like to play exciting attackers. Just saying

Connacht are meh.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

You'd give him to Kidney to develop?

Connacht like to play exciting attackers. Just saying

As bad as the end of Kidney's stint with Ireland was, I've no issue with him, and like I said he needs games.

Given that I think game time is the issue, why send him to another province where he wouldn't be first choice? I reckon LI could do with him to replace the attacking spark that Lewington gave them, not that I'd expect Kelly to be as good. I just think another year of not getting games here would be a big mistake and that everyone would benefit from a loan.

[hugonaut]

Can't see a loan to Li happening. . Maybe 7's duty.. obviously was massively rated joining academy straight from school

I can see him playing 7s as well but I think it'd be self-defeating. He wouldn't have to work on any of the things he's bad at [defensive positioning, challenging in the air, strategic kicking]. You'd probably end up with a slightly better attacking player who is a better tackler in open field with all of the same problems that he currently has.