Leinster Squad 19-20

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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by mildlyinterested »

Ages as of next season:

Loosehead Prop
Cian Healy(33/Belvedere/Old Belvedere) - 6'1, 116kg
Ed Byrne(27/Clongowes/UCD) - 5'11, 111kg
Peter Dooley(26/Birr/Lansdowne) - 6'0, 116kg
Andrew Porter(24/St, Andrews/UCD) - 6'0, 125kg
Michael Milne(21/Birr-Roscrea/UCD) - 5'11, 114kg

Healy is Healy, although there is talk from some that Kilcoyne should replace him as 1st choice for Ireland, he remains 1st choice for Leinster. Ed Byrne has struggled again this season with injury, Dooley has really stepped up and has had a good season, will be looking to continue that and cement his place as 2nd choice behind Healy. Porter is obviously a tighthead but calls for him to move back to loosehead look likely to continue going forward. Milne made his debut this season and looked good in limited game time.

Academy
Tom Clarkson(U21/Blackrock/DUFC) - 6'0, 113kg

A standout at tight head, but with experience at loose, may be suited to loosehead at a higher level due to frame?

This year's U20's
Charlie Ward(Tullow/Clontarf) - 5'9, 106kg
Marcus Hanan(Clane/Old Belvedere) - 6'0, 106kg
Harry Noonan(Greystones/Old Wesley) - 5'11, 104kg

Sort of difficult to separate these three from the U20's, Ward seemed to me to be marginally ahead and right now looks most likely to join the academy, although there may be concerns about his size. Wouldn't rule out the other two getting trials for next years preseason, although they could get connacht academy deals.

Next years potential U20's
Temi Lasisi(U20/Enniscorthy/Lansdowne)
Hugo O'Malley(U20/Blackrock)
James Power(U20/St. Michaels)
Jack Boyle(U19/St. Michaels)
Ben Popplewell(U19/Wexford)

Lasisi and O'Malley were the Leinster U19 looseheads last august, while James Power has primarily played tighthead in school he looks an option at loose going forward. Boyle has been a star since a young age, and played ireland u18 schools last year at 16, will he be physcially ready for 20's next season? Ben is the son of former lions prop Nick and was due to play for ireland u18 this easter.

Pilotman123
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Pilotman123 »

mildlyinterested wrote:Ages as of next season:

Loosehead Prop
Cian Healy(33/Belvedere/Old Belvedere) - 6'1, 116kg
Ed Byrne(27/Clongowes/UCD) - 5'11, 111kg
Peter Dooley(26/Birr/Lansdowne) - 6'0, 116kg
Andrew Porter(24/St, Andrews/UCD) - 6'0, 125kg
Michael Milne(21/Birr-Roscrea/UCD) - 5'11, 114kg

Healy is Healy, although there is talk from some that Kilcoyne should replace him as 1st choice for Ireland, he remains 1st choice for Leinster. Ed Byrne has struggled again this season with injury, Dooley has really stepped up and has had a good season, will be looking to continue that and cement his place as 2nd choice behind Healy. Porter is obviously a tighthead but calls for him to move back to loosehead look likely to continue going forward. Milne made his debut this season and looked good in limited game time.

Academy
Tom Clarkson(U21/Blackrock/DUFC) - 6'0, 113kg

A standout at tight head, but with experience at loose, may be suited to loosehead at a higher level due to frame?

This year's U20's
Charlie Ward(Tullow/Clontarf) - 5'9, 106kg
Marcus Hanan(Clane/Old Belvedere) - 6'0, 106kg
Harry Noonan(Greystones/Old Wesley) - 5'11, 104kg

Sort of difficult to separate these three from the U20's, Ward seemed to me to be marginally ahead and right now looks most likely to join the academy, although there may be concerns about his size. Wouldn't rule out the other two getting trials for next years preseason, although they could get connacht academy deals.

Next years potential U20's
Temi Lasisi(U20/Enniscorthy/Lansdowne)
Hugo O'Malley(U20/Blackrock)
James Power(U20/St. Michaels)
Jack Boyle(U19/St. Michaels)
Ben Popplewell(U19/Wexford)

Lasisi and O'Malley were the Leinster U19 looseheads last august, while James Power has primarily played tighthead in school he looks an option at loose going forward. Boyle has been a star since a young age, and played ireland u18 schools last year at 16, will he be physcially ready for 20's next season? Ben is the son of former lions prop Nick and was due to play for ireland u18 this easter.
Boyle is the best prop I’ve ever seen at schools level even better than the Byrne twins, I’ve never seen any other prop run the pitch and making line breaks on numerous occasions like Boyle has..really special talent although the only thing that could stop him is his size but he hasn’t been proved wrong yet..great scrummager aswell

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

Piece in ST today with Ferg - https://t.co/pN9TE7HMHJ

Don't have a sub so can't see full thing, but seems pretty clear he's retiring and at best looking for a short term contract.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

Joe T to the Dragons too by the looks of it:
https://twitter.com/RodneyRoar/status/1 ... 236866050/

Yikes, that's a big drop down for him, wage wise too I'd imagine.

A huge shame as he has really come good this year, but given COB isn't that far behind and the economic conditions it's not a shock.

Hopefully Fardy stays now with this news.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by mildlyinterested »

I wonder if ROL will be called upon to fill the McFadden type role, potentially covering 11,12,13 and 14.

Certainly the O'Briens will be relied upon more with McFadden and Tomane gone.

Pilotman123
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Pilotman123 »

mildlyinterested wrote:I wonder if ROL will be called upon to fill the McFadden type role, potentially covering 11,12,13 and 14.

Certainly the O'Briens will be relied upon more with McFadden and Tomane gone.
Jimmy and Tommy O’Brien are also very versatile so that helps

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hugonaut
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by hugonaut »

mildlyinterested wrote:I wonder if ROL will be called upon to fill the McFadden type role, potentially covering 11,12,13 and 14.

Certainly the O'Briens will be relied upon more with McFadden and Tomane gone.
Good call, Mildly. I had forgotten altogether about Locko. We've done well without him for the majority of this season, but he was a big contributor in his first three seasons - he averaged 1160mins/season and 7 tries/season over that period.

I've no worries about Conor O'Brien taking over from Tomane. O'Brien has bucketloads of footballing talent, he's got size and he's got the physicality This season didn't go his way in terms of selection, but we've seen other players field those and bounce back in the very recent past. For example, Pete Dooley was on the wrong end of selection in 2017-18 [only 285 mins over the season] but played in 15 [11+4] of 19 games this season.

Jonny tight lips
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Jonny tight lips »

mildlyinterested wrote:I wonder if ROL will be called upon to fill the McFadden type role, potentially covering 11,12,13 and 14.

Certainly the O'Briens will be relied upon more with McFadden and Tomane gone.
He’s the perfect 23, hopefully the young guys grow into the space created by the two guys leaving. Be interesting to see if we start next year with the likes of Bent, Dev or Fardy in the team, other than that you’d imagine we go as is.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by mildlyinterested »

Wonder will anyone else follow him into retirement?

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

wixfjord wrote:Joe T to the Dragons too by the looks of it:
https://twitter.com/RodneyRoar/status/1 ... 236866050/

Yikes, that's a big drop down for him, wage wise too I'd imagine.

A huge shame as he has really come good this year, but given COB isn't that far behind and the economic conditions it's not a shock.

Hopefully Fardy stays now with this news.
I know what you mean about the drop down but I'm just delighted for him that he has a move sorted. I'd imagine that a lot of guys who thought they had contracts for next season have had the rug pulled out from under them because of the crisis and some will struggle to pick up new deals.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

ROL has the bit of bite that Ferg does too. A model to replace him.

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neiliog93
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by neiliog93 »

wixfjord wrote:ROL has the bit of bite that Ferg does too. A model to replace him.
ROL is also taller and more athletic, maybe not quite as powerful or aggressive though.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by wixfjord »

ROL definitely has that bit of bite in him. But I agree all of our outside backs could do with a little Ferg aggression (maybe bar JLo).

I wonder does Ferg retiring, Tomane leaving and RK likely doing one or the other leave room for a contract for Adam Byrne?

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by mildlyinterested »

So possible wing options for next season?

Senior
Dave Kearney(31) - 5'11, 90kg
James Lowe(28) - 6'2, 100kg
Barry Daly(28) - 6'3, 94kg
Rory O'Loughlin(26) - 6'2, 94kg
Adam Byrne(26) - 6'3, 98kg
Cian Kelleher(26) - 5'11, 91kg
Hugo Keenan(24) - 6'1, 91kg
Jordan Larmour(23) - 5'10, 86kg
Tommy O'Brien(22) - 6'0, 91kg

DK was having an excellent season, with 12 tries, after struggling with injury in recent seasons, Lowe is clearly 1st choice for Leinster, how much he will be away with Ireland going forward? We will have to wait and see. Daly hasn't played for leinster this season due to injury, is out of contract this summer afaik. ROL has focused on centre since his breakthrough season, but could be an option on the wing. Byrne has rarely played for Leinster this season, only 5 appearances, and is also out of contract this summer, some rumours around him leaving but that remains unclear given covid situation. Kelleher had 4 tries in 7 appearances, and looked like he was adapting well on his return to the province. Keenan has played 15 exclusively this season, but can cover wing. Larmour played 15 mostly this season also but obviously another option on the wing. O'Brien is capable of playing centre and wing, interesting to watch to see where he focuses on next season.

Academy
Michael Silvester(22) - 6'0, 85kg
Liam Turner(21) - 5'8, 89kg
Aaron O'Sullivan(20) - 6'2, 91kg
Andrew Smith(20) - 6'0, 86kg

Silvester has played 15 mostly but could appear on the wing. Turner has played 13 mostly but could also play on the wing. O'Sullivan and Smith are pure wingers.

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hugonaut
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by hugonaut »

mildlyinterested wrote:So possible wing options for next season?

Senior
Dave Kearney(31) - 5'11, 90kg
James Lowe(28) - 6'2, 100kg
Barry Daly(28) - 6'3, 94kg
Rory O'Loughlin(26) - 6'2, 94kg
Adam Byrne(26) - 6'3, 98kg
Cian Kelleher(26) - 5'11, 91kg
Hugo Keenan(24) - 6'1, 91kg
Jordan Larmour(23) - 5'10, 86kg
Tommy O'Brien(22) - 6'0, 91kg

DK was having an excellent season, with 12 tries, after struggling with injury in recent seasons, Lowe is clearly 1st choice for Leinster, how much he will be away with Ireland going forward? We will have to wait and see. Daly hasn't played for leinster this season due to injury, is out of contract this summer afaik. ROL has focused on centre since his breakthrough season, but could be an option on the wing. Byrne has rarely played for Leinster this season, only 5 appearances, and is also out of contract this summer, some rumours around him leaving but that remains unclear given covid situation. Kelleher had 4 tries in 7 appearances, and looked like he was adapting well on his return to the province. Keenan has played 15 exclusively this season, but can cover wing. Larmour played 15 mostly this season also but obviously another option on the wing. O'Brien is capable of playing centre and wing, interesting to watch to see where he focuses on next season.

Academy
Michael Silvester(22) - 6'0, 85kg
Liam Turner(21) - 5'8, 89kg
Aaron O'Sullivan(20) - 6'2, 91kg
Andrew Smith(20) - 6'0, 86kg

Silvester has played 15 mostly but could appear on the wing. Turner has played 13 mostly but could also play on the wing. O'Sullivan and Smith are pure wingers.
Kelleher was putting up hugely impressive numbers this season, albeit against weaker teams. For comparison's sake:

Kelleher
Off 26 carries
- 242m gained | 9.30m/carry
- 12 clean breaks | 1 cb/2.1 carries
- 13 defenders beaten | 1 db/2 carries
- 4 offloads | 1o/6.5 carries
- 4 tries | 1 t/6.5 carries

Lowe
Off 115 carries
- 811m gained | 7.05m/carry
- 23 clean breaks | 1cb/5.0 carries
- 21 defenders beaten | 1db/5.4 carries
- 17 offloads | 1o/6.7 carries
- 7 tries | 1t/16.4 carries

DK
Off 82 carries
- 561m gained | 6.84m/carry
- 19 clean breaks | 1cb/4.3 carries
- 22 defenders beaten | 1db/3.7 carries
- 1 offload | 1o/82 carries
- 12 tries | 1 t/6.8 carries

Obviously that doesn't take into account the standard of opposition or defensive performance, or anything outside the metrics quoted above. There are many more factors to consider. For example, Kelleher's sample size is very small: 375mins for Kelleher, 1026 mins for Lowe and 824 mins for Kearney. But in terms of offensive output, they are still seriously impressive figures.

The next step with Kelleher would be to give him more minutes, and then more minutes at a higher level to see if it keeps working out. Back three players take less contact than anybody else in the game, so there's not as much need to rest them. If they've got a hot hand, you can play them as often as you like.

For the most part, there's a very slow reaction time for international call-ups. It's not unreasonable. Coaches want to see you perform at a high level for a long time. But it means that if Kelleher starts the season off well, we could have him playing at that level for the whole season while Farrell takes Earls, Stockdale, Conway and Lowe into his squads.

Lowe and Kearney would be my starters the next season, based on current form. Kelleher, Adam Byrne [size] and Barry Daly [speed] the next step down. There are lots of guys in their mid-20s [their prime as wingers] in that group, then Tommy O'Brien as a potential springer. He has all the potential you could ask for in an Irish back, and could be a potential Ferg replacement in terms of his toughness, his leadership, pace and versatility. I could also see [but would not encourage] Leinster dispensing with one of AB+ or Daly in order to give more gametime to TOB on the wing.

We were way too heavy in the back three this season: only 375 mins for Kelleher, 375 mins for Adam Byrne, 344 mins for Ferg, 300mins for Rob [not to mention 0 mins for the unfortunate Barry Daly]. Bundle those five players together and you're at 91% gametime for one back three player [1394mins out of a potential 1520mins (19 games x 80 mins)].

We had something like 9 back three players on senior contracts [RK, Lowe, Larmour, DK, Ferg, AB+, Kelleher, Keenan, Daly*] and we only sent two on Ireland duty over the course of two tournaments. In comparison we had the same number of backrowers [Conan, Connors, Deegan, Doris, Leavy*, Murphy, Penny, Ruddock, van der Flier] and sent five to two tournaments with Ireland.

We were probably able to live with the finances last season, but we will not be able to afford to carry those costs next season.

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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by elephantman »

Joe Tomane being linked with the Dragons today on RugbyPass.

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blockhead
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by blockhead »

Ryan Baird saying that he put of 4kgs of muscle in the last 9 weeks.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Dave Cahill »

blockhead wrote:Ryan Baird saying that he put of 4kgs of muscle in the last 9 weeks.
Same here.


Maybe not muscle though
I have Bumbleflex

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blockhead
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by blockhead »

I have big hair.
If it was curly I'd be Carlos Valderrama.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

Pilotman123
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Pilotman123 »

blockhead wrote:Ryan Baird saying that he put of 4kgs of muscle in the last 9 weeks.
Source?

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