Leinster Squad 19-20

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Blueberry
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Blueberry »

Morf wrote:
Up Wexford wrote:Another wrinkle here is we seem to get no leaks from Nuicfora's camp on his designs. Irish rugby is a leaky bucket with whatsapps, texts, team selections flinging every which way to players, members of the public, and journalists. But we hear nothing from Nucifora, from example are his offices based on Lansdowne road, does he have a big team, does he issue directives directly to Leo, Stuart, Van Grann, McFarland and Friend only, and if so why do they acquiesce so easily? We are in danger of putting Nucifora on a pedestal as this "dark lord" who has pushed Irish rugby to new heights but I'm not inclined to believe that, its as much our development and coaching structures, and raw talent thats won us our success as much as Nuciforas meddling. Obviously im not saying Nucifora out but it would do no harm to soften his cough, or do the O'Connor and Keane experiences have everyone shaken to their core?
I would imagine the IRFU are happy he's a shadowy figure there to take flack and attention for less palatable rugby-related strategic decisions.

Like leading the cut at Schmidt once he'd left and preparing the ground (pun semi intentional) for the fresh whiff of Faz.
Some truth in this I suspect. The reality like many things is a confluence of pressures and problems re moving Leinster players around.

i) Nucifora I don't think really understands the most valuable thing in Irish provincial rugby and that is the tribal value from keeping provinces largely comprised of local players. The Leinster v Munster used to be truly mammoth, it's somewhat devalued now. He thinks we are a bunch of franchises, his actions in recent years clearly show this and it's just wrong. He needs to be moved on.
ii) The IRFU has internal pressures from the weaker provinces to move players about so they can play Euro Rugby and allow stacks of saffers, Leinster movers etc despite it being counter productive. The reality is if Munster and Ulster were pushed to play more young players and keep teams largely comprised of their own talent and academy production in recent years neither would be playing European Rugby and would be very average PRO 14 teams now. The counter argument here of course is keeping them playing at the highest level in Euro rugby but it comes at a high price, devaluing the provincial integrity, not forcing them to put resources into their academy and schools and putting pressure on Leinster. Everyone is ultimately looking for a quick fix and instant results, import players = quick fix likely to get results. Building academy talent = slow and unpredictable.
iii) Leinster are now and have been in recent years the golden supply line for Irish rugby and it looks set to continue. It is supported by the Leinster schools but much good work has come from within the Leinster setup too with great coaching and a great academy the envy of Europe. This should be protected at all costs but envy is a problem and I have no doubt there is pressure from within the IRFU to balance this out and if you look at the mood music from Ulster and Munster they have accepted a route now where they prefer the quick fix of importing v developing local talent. If they had a stronger mindset they wouldn't be compromising but the reality is they have decided it's better to try and win with imports and remain competitive rather than grow from within and be prepared to accept many fallow years. Of course the ultimate prize would be Munster or Ulster rebuilding a great squad with a load of local lads and winning another Euro cup but they just don't seem to believe now they can do this. It's a pity as it would be a real asset to Irish rugby. I understand the financial issues and other issues with this (for example if Munster dropped out of Europe and were an average Pro 14 team gates would drop and financial problems increase) so it's not a simple issue but IRFU needs to have a longer term vision and find a way for it to work.

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Peg Leg
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Peg Leg »

mildlyinterested wrote:Sexton again in media saying he doesn't intend on retiring anytime soon, does he finish his career at leinster? Or is there an inevitable falling out going to happen with Sexton and the IRFU?
Happy to chip in to a go fund me to keep him at Leinster
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Blueberry
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Blueberry »

Peg Leg wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Sexton again in media saying he doesn't intend on retiring anytime soon, does he finish his career at leinster? Or is there an inevitable falling out going to happen with Sexton and the IRFU?
Happy to chip in to a go fund me to keep him at Leinster
Might have to buy him a set of posts for his back garden if this continues much longer....any idea how much we need for a set of posts ?

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cormac
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by cormac »

378 days and counting since Leinster last lost a match.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Any stats on how many days since we lost a player to another province?

elephantman
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by elephantman »

Any news on the grapevine about Scott Fardy getting another year extension?

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LeinsterLeader
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Devin Toner to sort out his future with Leinster next month
The second row, who will be 34 on June 29, is planning to keep playing after his current IRFU contract ends next month

"Devin Toner has indicated that his future will be sorted out when Leinster resume training next month.

Blues colleague Fergus McFadden has already confirmed he is retiring at the season's end and it is not yet known if Rob Kearney will play beyond that.

But Ireland second row Toner, who will be 34 on June 29, is planning to keep playing after his current IRFU contract ends next month and the giant lock may well remain with the province.

"I think it will all get cleared up in the next couple of weeks,' Toner said. "It will all become a lot clearer when we come back to training.

"The body has never felt better, to be honest.

"I know I had a bit of a hiccup about a year and a half ago with my ankle but I got that issue sorted and it's sorted now.

"Other than that I've been really lucky with injuries but, as I said, I'm feeling good and the body is good so I'm going to go as long as I can. I'm going to try to anyway!".

IRFU bosses revealed on Friday that they are planning for Irish rugby to resume with PRO14 interpro clashes at the Aviva Stadium on the weekend of 22/23 August.

"Obviously we had a very good season up until the end and hopefully we'll be able to pick up where we left off, but there's no point crying about it," said Toner.

"There's nothing we can do about it".

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Serb
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Serb »

Connacht just announced they’re releasing 12 players from their squad, including some players that would have been pretty heavily involved in the first team, like Adeolokun and Godwin.

Fainga’a was already confirmed to be leaving, and Connacht’s deal with the Cheetahs #8 has appeared to have not progressed.

That’s quite a lot of first team minutes to lose in one go. I’ve a feeling there might be a second wave of departures for us in the next few weeks, back row being an area where you could see movement in particular.

mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by mildlyinterested »

province is about to be gutted.

Ruckedtobits
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Ruckedtobits »

mildlyinterested wrote:province is about to be gutted.
I hope you're not hinting at a 'Connacht -like' clear-out. They've really taken a knife to their Squad size and corresponding budget. If Leinster are forced down the same road it could be carnage. In truth, it shouldn't be necessary because Leinster has the financial capacity to recover when and if games can be played in front of spectators in RDS & Aviva. Connacht has never had that option.

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LeinsterLeader
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:province is about to be gutted.
I hope you're not hinting at a 'Connacht -like' clear-out. They've really taken a knife to their Squad size and corresponding budget. If Leinster are forced down the same road it could be carnage. In truth, it shouldn't be necessary because Leinster has the financial capacity to recover when and if games can be played in front of spectators in RDS & Aviva. Connacht has never had that option.
I assumed he was refering to a raft of Leinster players being shipped down to Connacht to fill their void, no? :shock:

Keith
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Keith »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:province is about to be gutted.
I hope you're not hinting at a 'Connacht -like' clear-out. They've really taken a knife to their Squad size and corresponding budget. If Leinster are forced down the same road it could be carnage. In truth, it shouldn't be necessary because Leinster has the financial capacity to recover when and if games can be played in front of spectators in RDS & Aviva. Connacht has never had that option.
I assumed he was refering to a raft of Leinster players being shipped down to Connacht to fill their void, no? :shock:
They are already asking for Adam Byrne to go over, which to be honest would make sense.

carlow man
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by carlow man »

So Dave Kearney is the only real right winger we have? Byrne should give it one more year. Dave has probably maxed out his level now and isn't going to get any better. He's been ridiculously good for the past 18 months and probably the most consistent he's ever been. But Adam Byrne still has a lot more growth in his game. I know he's not a kid anymore but I'd hate to see him forced out west when it's a straight shootout between him and dave. I'd keep Byrne for one more year.

ormond lad
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by ormond lad »

Blueberry wrote:
Morf wrote:
Up Wexford wrote:Another wrinkle here is we seem to get no leaks from Nuicfora's camp on his designs. Irish rugby is a leaky bucket with whatsapps, texts, team selections flinging every which way to players, members of the public, and journalists. But we hear nothing from Nucifora, from example are his offices based on Lansdowne road, does he have a big team, does he issue directives directly to Leo, Stuart, Van Grann, McFarland and Friend only, and if so why do they acquiesce so easily? We are in danger of putting Nucifora on a pedestal as this "dark lord" who has pushed Irish rugby to new heights but I'm not inclined to believe that, its as much our development and coaching structures, and raw talent thats won us our success as much as Nuciforas meddling. Obviously im not saying Nucifora out but it would do no harm to soften his cough, or do the O'Connor and Keane experiences have everyone shaken to their core?
I would imagine the IRFU are happy he's a shadowy figure there to take flack and attention for less palatable rugby-related strategic decisions.

Like leading the cut at Schmidt once he'd left and preparing the ground (pun semi intentional) for the fresh whiff of Faz.
Some truth in this I suspect. The reality like many things is a confluence of pressures and problems re moving Leinster players around.

i) Nucifora I don't think really understands the most valuable thing in Irish provincial rugby and that is the tribal value from keeping provinces largely comprised of local players. The Leinster v Munster used to be truly mammoth, it's somewhat devalued now. He thinks we are a bunch of franchises, his actions in recent years clearly show this and it's just wrong. He needs to be moved on.
ii) The IRFU has internal pressures from the weaker provinces to move players about so they can play Euro Rugby and allow stacks of saffers, Leinster movers etc despite it being counter productive. The reality is if Munster and Ulster were pushed to play more young players and keep teams largely comprised of their own talent and academy production in recent years neither would be playing European Rugby and would be very average PRO 14 teams now. The counter argument here of course is keeping them playing at the highest level in Euro rugby but it comes at a high price, devaluing the provincial integrity, not forcing them to put resources into their academy and schools and putting pressure on Leinster. Everyone is ultimately looking for a quick fix and instant results, import players = quick fix likely to get results. Building academy talent = slow and unpredictable.
iii) Leinster are now and have been in recent years the golden supply line for Irish rugby and it looks set to continue. It is supported by the Leinster schools but much good work has come from within the Leinster setup too with great coaching and a great academy the envy of Europe. This should be protected at all costs but envy is a problem and I have no doubt there is pressure from within the IRFU to balance this out and if you look at the mood music from Ulster and Munster they have accepted a route now where they prefer the quick fix of importing v developing local talent. If they had a stronger mindset they wouldn't be compromising but the reality is they have decided it's better to try and win with imports and remain competitive rather than grow from within and be prepared to accept many fallow years. Of course the ultimate prize would be Munster or Ulster rebuilding a great squad with a load of local lads and winning another Euro cup but they just don't seem to believe now they can do this. It's a pity as it would be a real asset to Irish rugby. I understand the financial issues and other issues with this (for example if Munster dropped out of Europe and were an average Pro 14 team gates would drop and financial problems increase) so it's not a simple issue but IRFU needs to have a longer term vision and find a way for it to work.
Munster and Ulster would play younger players if they're good enough. Nobody has schools like leinster have and then have enough resources to then focus on smaller/weaker schools as well as clubs.
Munster have been building on their schools and clubs a lot. Past decade has seen huge changes at nearly all levels of age grade for the better. This will see more players progress to pro in time. Already that's seen quite a few pros from county Waterford wr hadn't got before in Munster.

sunshiner1
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by sunshiner1 »

y carlow man


So Dave Kearney is the only real right winger we have? Byrne should give it one more year. Dave has probably maxed out his level now and isn't going to get any better. He's been ridiculously good for the past 18 months and probably the most consistent he's ever been. But Adam Byrne still has a lot more growth in his game. I know he's not a kid anymore but I'd hate to see him forced out west when it's a straight shootout between him and dave. I'd keep Byrne for one more year.
Agree about Byrne. He'll get more gametime with McFadden gone. Think Byrne is feeling a little demoralised as he hasn't moved up like he expected to. TBF injuries have not helped but he's got the quality to be a first teamer with a little luck with injury.

carlow man
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by carlow man »

Exactly. His potential is unreal. Big, strong, fast, good in the air and scores tries. Ticks all the boxes but he cant seem to nail his spot in the squad down. It's a bit of a mystery really.

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Dave Cahill »

Should we really be talking about a 26 year old in terms of potential?
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elephantman
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by elephantman »

Dave Cahill wrote:Should we really be talking about a 26 year old in terms of potential?
Seem to remember Will Greenwood picking Adam Byrne in his Lions 2017 test team.

riocard911
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by riocard911 »

Dave Cahill wrote:Should we really be talking about a 26 year old in terms of potential?
Exactly. I'm still waiting to see Adam Byrne seriously burst someone coming down his track à la Ferg. Until he does that, I'm not convinced.

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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by ronk »

Dave Cahill wrote:Should we really be talking about a 26 year old in terms of potential?

Normally no.

In the context of the age profile of our wingers/outside backs it might not be off the mark.

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