LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑September 3rd, 2020, 11:46 pm
Sorry but that’s not actually the issue in the context of what I was replying to. People are saying that Nucifora has made a mistake and I’m saying that he hasn’t, or at least that Salanoa “being 4th choice” and Leinster having to sign Parker aren’t evidence that he’s messed up.
I don’t think Salanoa should have moved but that’s a separate issue to people reacting to Leo’s comments by saying that Nucifora has made a b*%&!cks of it.
I hate a lot of the decisions that Nucifora makes (Joey being one of them) but by and large there’s logic to them and people tend to ignore that when they go after him. It made sense for the IRFU to have Joey/Ross starting for Ulster/Munster, it made sense to cut Pienaar in order to have more options at 9, and it makes sense for them to want a young tighthead getting more games for a province that needs an upgrade (and Archer and Ryan are both 32) in that area.
The idea that he’s screwed us over and created a mess because we have to sign a 6th choice prop is just nonsense.
Thank jaysus there's some logic on here.
What you've said there is bang on LRIP. Some of the last few pages has been pure foaming at the mouth 'Munsterfans' type stuff.
If you look at various threads on here at the moment, we're being put upon by the meedja, the IRFU are against us, Nucifora is the devil etc etc.
There's also a tonne of ego about how much better we are than Munster and how far behind they are.
On the day we play our big rivals in a semi final, the similarities between us now and Munster fans in April 2009 are clearly there.
Peg Leg wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 9:38 am
Salanoa though, he shafted his coaches and left his colleagues in a difficult situation, house Ireland is a very small bungalow with a really large front door step, Salanoa's dump on the doormat is going to be something he finds himself having to deal with every time he's there to knock on the door.
I don't know that that's entirely fair on Salanoa, we don't know what pressure he was under from elsewhere...
Leo: So, have you decided what you want to do next season?
RS: I have Coach, I'm gonna stay here if y'all will have me.
Leo: Excellent, listen, I have to deal with this other player first, then we'll sit down and get the contracts sorted. How does that sound?
RS: Yeehaw, that sure sounds good to me Coach, have a nice day
RS toddles off home, when he gets there, he hears the phone ringing
RS (picking up the phone): Howdy, you got Roman, how may I help you
Phone: <Heavy deep breathing, with an air of menace>
RS: Hello, is there anybody there?
Phone: <Breathing continues, menace deepens>
RS: Hello? Hello?
Phone: G'day Cobber
Who will you cast in your screen adaptation?
Tippi Hedren* will play Roman Salanoa
Cary Grant as Leo Cullen
Peter Lorre as David Nucifora
Anthony Perkins as Johann Van Graan
(*yes, I know, it's a whole Emma Stone shaped can of worms)
munster#1 wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 9:58 am
Bit over the top there calling the Munster coaching set up a bunch of amateurs.
Munster are regularly a top 4 team in Europe and the league.
When you look at the players at Munster’s disposal, that is an over achievement. That doesn’t happen that regularly by accident, Munster have generally always been a well drilled and coached team, but have been caught out at the top level due to lack of power and quality.
Additionally, Mc Carty is the exception to the rule, and I’m not sure that the IRFU instigated that move?
You're right. Hyperbole, with an added dash of angostura.
However, I think that, since we brought Lancaster on board, the Leinster set up has been the best in Ireland (including the national team) and arguably the best in Europe. It's also a team that keeps getting stronger (Contepomi and McBryde).
To be fair, Munster have a good set up this year - but the whole situation around Erasmus was amateur by all involved (Munster and the IRFU).
Too long to quote the thread but you have to agree with Curates Eggs post there. Nucifora is a lot of things but a benign influence on Leinster he most certainly is not. Cullen and Lancaster, the two most successful, and Lancaster the most experienced, coaches in have begun to speak publicly about his meddling and that dangerous territory fro Nucifora.
To quote Dave from the latest episode of Blues Talk - If you have someone by the balls, it dosen't matter of you ask them or tell them, they are still going to do what you want. Nucifora is moving young, impressionable players around Ireland because he has massive influence in the IRFU and im guessing controls the purse strings and player minutes, certainly for contracted players.
Players with more experience (life and on the pitch), stronger management etc are counter to this - Brian Byrne would be more useful in Connacht than Bristol I imagine, Jordi and Jack moved north for a variety of reasons but I think we can say they did so after a broad assessement of all options. To develop this idea further, I think nothing would make Nucifora happier than Sexton to Munster to drag them to the promised land once again - Beauden Barret from Hurricanes to Blues as a template. But Sexton is an altogether different animal to say Carberry and wont countenance the bullshit.
I hear ya wixjford though. This topic is totally separate to the game today of course - of which I am very wary of complacency - we are going to be hit full metal jacket by Munster and if that is how they beat us it would be mighty impressive and a total sickener
curates_egg wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 8:07 am
Ah come on. He has screwed us over, and he has created a mess, and we have had to sign emergency cover to deal with it. I don't think it is controversial in the least to state that. It's a fact.
Now, in terms of what you interpret his remit to be (getting potential internationals more game time), you could argue it makes sense for Team Ireland. Although, how many of the other moves he was involved in really worked out? McCarthy is a case in point: getting far fewer game minutes with Munster than he was Leinster. An argument could also be coherently made that moving Carbery from the best coaching and S&C set up to a bunch of amateurs has also negatively impacted his career. I certainly would.
However, if that really is his sole remit, it is also easy to argue that such a narrow remit is clearly not necessarily in the interest of Irish rugby as a whole. How does weakening Leinster or moving young, developing players to poorer coaching and welfare set ups really improve the bigger picture for Irish rugby?
Once the door hits him on his way out, I hope they either discontinue the position or fundamentally rethink the remit, if it really is as you interpret it to be.
Having to sign a 6th choice prop to cover an an injury (in a disrupted season) is not a sign of a mess, so it’s not a fact.
Joey Carbery being injured is not his fault.
McCarthy deciding to move province and not playing well is not his fault.
The reaction to this is like Trump blaming Obama for things he had no control over and peddling conspiracy theories about the democrats. Don’t worry, Nucifora isn’t trying to take your hamburgers away and Leinster lives do matter as well.
curates_egg wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 8:07 am
Ah come on. He has screwed us over, and he has created a mess, and we have had to sign emergency cover to deal with it. I don't think it is controversial in the least to state that. It's a fact.
Now, in terms of what you interpret his remit to be (getting potential internationals more game time), you could argue it makes sense for Team Ireland. Although, how many of the other moves he was involved in really worked out? McCarthy is a case in point: getting far fewer game minutes with Munster than he was Leinster. An argument could also be coherently made that moving Carbery from the best coaching and S&C set up to a bunch of amateurs has also negatively impacted his career. I certainly would.
However, if that really is his sole remit, it is also easy to argue that such a narrow remit is clearly not necessarily in the interest of Irish rugby as a whole. How does weakening Leinster or moving young, developing players to poorer coaching and welfare set ups really improve the bigger picture for Irish rugby?
Once the door hits him on his way out, I hope they either discontinue the position or fundamentally rethink the remit, if it really is as you interpret it to be.
Having to sign a 6th choice prop to cover an an injury (in a disrupted season) is not a sign of a mess, so it’s not a fact.
Joey Carbery being injured is not his fault.
McCarthy deciding to move province and not playing well is not his fault.
The reaction to this is like Trump blaming Obama for things he had no control over and peddling conspiracy theories about the democrats. Don’t worry, Nucifora isn’t trying to take your hamburgers away and Leinster lives do matter as well.
Hahhaa, no it certainly hasnt reached that level. But I think you can be Director of Rugby, or whatever Nucifora is, and be better than him dont you think? And picking our way through his various moves help create a clearer picture of what a different IRFU DoR might do.... say Lancaster
curates_egg wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 8:07 am
Ah come on. He has screwed us over, and he has created a mess, and we have had to sign emergency cover to deal with it. I don't think it is controversial in the least to state that. It's a fact.
Now, in terms of what you interpret his remit to be (getting potential internationals more game time), you could argue it makes sense for Team Ireland. Although, how many of the other moves he was involved in really worked out? McCarthy is a case in point: getting far fewer game minutes with Munster than he was Leinster. An argument could also be coherently made that moving Carbery from the best coaching and S&C set up to a bunch of amateurs has also negatively impacted his career. I certainly would.
However, if that really is his sole remit, it is also easy to argue that such a narrow remit is clearly not necessarily in the interest of Irish rugby as a whole. How does weakening Leinster or moving young, developing players to poorer coaching and welfare set ups really improve the bigger picture for Irish rugby?
Once the door hits him on his way out, I hope they either discontinue the position or fundamentally rethink the remit, if it really is as you interpret it to be.
Having to sign a 6th choice prop to cover an an injury (in a disrupted season) is not a sign of a mess, so it’s not a fact.
Joey Carbery being injured is not his fault.
McCarthy deciding to move province and not playing well is not his fault.
The reaction to this is like Trump blaming Obama for things he had no control over and peddling conspiracy theories about the democrats. Don’t worry, Nucifora isn’t trying to take your hamburgers away and Leinster lives do matter as well.
But. But..... He said it was a F.A.C.T. how can you go on arguing after that?
Up Wexford wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 10:27 am
Nucifora is a lot of things but a benign influence on Leinster he most certainly is not.
But he shouldn't be. That's the point that's central to all of this that people miss.
The IRFU are our paymasters, like it or not.
Nucifora is paid to be the puppeteer and that's the way our system is set up, for good or bad.
The central strategy was to build national success on top of successful provinces. It’s why Munster keep getting their begging bowl filled.
We sink or swim together. Grand Slams came in the same years as Leinster HC wins. The Irish team went downhill fast from the very next game after the provincial bad blood escalated.
The IRFU had to sign off the Salanoa deal. Even if they didn’t orchestrate it in any way they could have offered him to wait in Leinster or head off to a different country.
The trend of results for hostile recruitment competition between Munster and Leinster has been overwhelmingly negative.
curates_egg wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 8:07 am
Ah come on. He has screwed us over, and he has created a mess, and we have had to sign emergency cover to deal with it. I don't think it is controversial in the least to state that. It's a fact.
Now, in terms of what you interpret his remit to be (getting potential internationals more game time), you could argue it makes sense for Team Ireland. Although, how many of the other moves he was involved in really worked out? McCarthy is a case in point: getting far fewer game minutes with Munster than he was Leinster. An argument could also be coherently made that moving Carbery from the best coaching and S&C set up to a bunch of amateurs has also negatively impacted his career. I certainly would.
However, if that really is his sole remit, it is also easy to argue that such a narrow remit is clearly not necessarily in the interest of Irish rugby as a whole. How does weakening Leinster or moving young, developing players to poorer coaching and welfare set ups really improve the bigger picture for Irish rugby?
Once the door hits him on his way out, I hope they either discontinue the position or fundamentally rethink the remit, if it really is as you interpret it to be.
Having to sign a 6th choice prop to cover an an injury (in a disrupted season) is not a sign of a mess, so it’s not a fact.
Joey Carbery being injured is not his fault.
McCarthy deciding to move province and not playing well is not his fault.
The reaction to this is like Trump blaming Obama for things he had no control over and peddling conspiracy theories about the democrats. Don’t worry, Nucifora isn’t trying to take your hamburgers away and Leinster lives do matter as well.
But. But..... He said it was a F.A.C.T. how can you go on arguing after that?
I don't know that that's entirely fair on Salanoa, we don't know what pressure he was under from elsewhere...
Leo: So, have you decided what you want to do next season?
RS: I have Coach, I'm gonna stay here if y'all will have me.
Leo: Excellent, listen, I have to deal with this other player first, then we'll sit down and get the contracts sorted. How does that sound?
RS: Yeehaw, that sure sounds good to me Coach, have a nice day
RS toddles off home, when he gets there, he hears the phone ringing
RS (picking up the phone): Howdy, you got Roman, how may I help you
Phone: <Heavy deep breathing, with an air of menace>
RS: Hello, is there anybody there?
Phone: <Breathing continues, menace deepens>
RS: Hello? Hello?
Phone: G'day Cobber
Who will you cast in your screen adaptation?
Tippi Hedren* will play Roman Salanoa
Cary Grant as Leo Cullen
Peter Lorre as David Nucifora
Anthony Perkins as Johann Van Graan
(*yes, I know, it's a whole Emma Stone shaped can of worms)
Peg Leg wrote: ↑September 4th, 2020, 9:38 am
Salanoa though, he shafted his coaches and left his colleagues in a difficult situation, house Ireland is a very small bungalow with a really large front door step, Salanoa's dump on the doormat is going to be something he finds himself having to deal with every time he's there to knock on the door.
I don't know that that's entirely fair on Salanoa, we don't know what pressure he was under from elsewhere...
Leo: So, have you decided what you want to do next season?
RS: I have Coach, I'm gonna stay here if y'all will have me.
Leo: Excellent, listen, I have to deal with this other player first, then we'll sit down and get the contracts sorted. How does that sound?
RS: Yeehaw, that sure sounds good to me Coach, have a nice day
RS toddles off home, when he gets there, he hears the phone ringing
RS (picking up the phone): Howdy, you got Roman, how may I help you
Phone: <Heavy deep breathing, with an air of menace>
RS: Hello, is there anybody there?
Phone: <Breathing continues, menace deepens>
RS: Hello? Hello?
Phone: G'day Cobber
I don't think Leo would make this public if his actions were not beyond reproach.
It will be interesting to see the appearances and minutes of the three boys Parker, Salanoa and Aungier at the end of Parker's three month contract. Well it will interest me anyway
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"
