Leinster Squad 19-20

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riocard911
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by riocard911 »

Have to agree. There are some in the IRFU and de meeja, who seem determined to kill the goose, that lays the golden eggs.

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neiliog93
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by neiliog93 »

The IRFU interfered to strongarm Salanoa into moving. So now he's Munster's fourth choice having been Leinster's fourth choice. Really terrible message to send to Leinster and indeed the other provinces in terms of incentivising the development of young players.
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Blueberry »

riocard911 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:58 pm
Have to agree. There are some in the IRFU and de meeja, who seem determined to kill the goose, that lays the golden eggs.
+1 classic begrudgery......if we can't have it sure we may as well feck it all up....same mentality that has our red friends turning up at our champions cup final in Racing jerseys in Bilbao :green clap:

Where exactly would Irish Rugby be without Leinster ? I am a true blue but I also just passionately hate good stuff being fecked up by morons.....

leinsterforever
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by leinsterforever »

neiliog93 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:11 pm
The IRFU interfered to strongarm Salanoa into moving. So now he's Munster's fourth choice having been Leinster's fourth choice. Really terrible message to send to Leinster and indeed the other provinces in terms of incentivising the development of young players.
He was 4th or 5th choice out of the available options while Abdaladze was injured. If anything, I'd say he was behind Aungier in the pecking order.

I thought Parker looked reasonably promising in the glimpses I got of him playing for Munster. Kind of solid looking. He did miss a lot of time with injury recently, though. Is he over that then?

I'm not generally in favour of temporary signings that don't go up to the end of the season, but this probably makes sense having lost both Aungier and Salanoa instead of the expected one and with Abdaladze having this back injury on top of Furlong and Porter expected to be off with Ireland. Nice opportunity for Parker too.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

neiliog93 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:11 pm
The IRFU interfered to strongarm Salanoa into moving. So now he's Munster's fourth choice having been Leinster's fourth choice. Really terrible message to send to Leinster and indeed the other provinces in terms of incentivising the development of young players.
I don’t get this kind of thinking, the idea is that he gets in the first choice 23 for Munster over the next year or two and then pushes on for Ireland, that’s when it can be judged. He’s also been injured recently so we don’t actually know where he is in the pecking order for Munster yet, could be 4th, could be 2nd, who knows?

If he ends up as first or second choice for Munster over the next 12 months and makes his debut for Ireland then I can’t imagine anyone will think that that wasn’t worth Leinster having to sign Parker on a 3 month deal.

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munster#1
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by munster#1 »

Blueberry wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:20 pm
Nothing ironic about it......Munster's behaviour in recent years has been reprehensible and it's been driven by a bitterness towards our success.....rebuild, bring young players through and accept you may have to slip off your top table entitlement for a while. Then you can build something we can all respect. Bringing in Snyman and DDA this year shows exactly the problem you have.

Clearly Leo is pointing the finger at outside influences or a player being manipulated.......there is no way he is gonna say what he said lightly. They were pi**ed about Carbery and they were right to be, this is just more of the same. If the IRFU had any cop on at all they would be working with and not against Leinster. I think our track record in recent years and the outstanding performance should mean the powers that be in the IRFU should be working with Leinster....help not hinder.
I think it’s ironic that you say there is nothing ironic about it.

Your post is filled with bitterness.
Whether it is rightly placed or not, it is ironic that you post a bitter post giving out about Munster being bitter.

I seriously doubt that Munster signed those 2 players out of bitterness, they most likely signed them because they were available and improved the Munster squad, the very same reason why any professional team makes a signing.
They were 2 very sensible signings from a Munster perspective.
Much like how Leinster benefited from the likes of Henshaw and Cronin, 2 signings that greatly weakened an already weak squad, Or trying to sign Casey from Munster to improve Leinster’s depth at SH.

By all means blame the IRFU policies if you like, or the players for leaving, but it is very bitter to point the blame at Munster, especially when they have less Leinster players on their books than any of the provinces.
Your anger and disgust is pointed in the wrong direction.

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munster#1
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by munster#1 »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:36 pm
neiliog93 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:11 pm
The IRFU interfered to strongarm Salanoa into moving. So now he's Munster's fourth choice having been Leinster's fourth choice. Really terrible message to send to Leinster and indeed the other provinces in terms of incentivising the development of young players.
I don’t get this kind of thinking, the idea is that he gets in the first choice 23 for Munster over the next year or two and then pushes on for Ireland, that’s when it can be judged. He’s also been injured recently so we don’t actually know where he is in the pecking order for Munster yet, could be 4th, could be 2nd, who knows?

If he ends up as first or second choice for Munster over the next 12 months and makes his debut for Ireland then I can’t imagine anyone will think that that wasn’t worth Leinster having to sign Parker on a 3 month deal.
Great post.

In this case Leinster’s success is their biggest downfall.
Any young tighthead coming up at Leinster right now is looking at the first and second choice tightheads in the country ahead of them.
One is deemed to be one of the best in the world, and the other is a very talented backup.
Both are very young, and it is not unreasonable to say that Furlong has 8 good years ahead of him.
Outside of those 2 you have a couple of other who are also deemed to be ahead in the pecking order.

Whereas at Munster you have 2 props who are over the 30 mark and not deemed to be at the level of either of the Leinster props, and with Parker and Scott released, the path is fairly clear.

It is not unreasonable to think that either Knox or Salanoa could well become 2nd choice in the next 12 months, and we could see both as first and second choice within 24 months.

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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Blueberry »

munster#1 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:44 pm
Blueberry wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:20 pm
Nothing ironic about it......Munster's behaviour in recent years has been reprehensible and it's been driven by a bitterness towards our success.....rebuild, bring young players through and accept you may have to slip off your top table entitlement for a while. Then you can build something we can all respect. Bringing in Snyman and DDA this year shows exactly the problem you have.

Clearly Leo is pointing the finger at outside influences or a player being manipulated.......there is no way he is gonna say what he said lightly. They were pi**ed about Carbery and they were right to be, this is just more of the same. If the IRFU had any cop on at all they would be working with and not against Leinster. I think our track record in recent years and the outstanding performance should mean the powers that be in the IRFU should be working with Leinster....help not hinder.
I think it’s ironic that you say there is nothing ironic about it.

Your post is filled with bitterness.
Whether it is rightly placed or not, it is ironic that you post a bitter post giving out about Munster being bitter.

I seriously doubt that Munster signed those 2 players out of bitterness, they most likely signed them because they were available and improved the Munster squad, the very same reason why any professional team makes a signing.
They were 2 very sensible signings from a Munster perspective.
Much like how Leinster benefited from the likes of Henshaw and Cronin, 2 signings that greatly weakened an already weak squad, Or trying to sign Casey from Munster to improve Leinster’s depth at SH.

By all means blame the IRFU policies if you like, or the players for leaving, but it is very bitter to point the blame at Munster, especially when they have less Leinster players on their books than any of the provinces.
Your anger and disgust is pointed in the wrong direction.
Look if you can't see what has been going on at Munster in recent years I really don't know what to say. I have no bitterness towards Munster, used to hugely respect what the province stood for and their behaviour in recent years is quite simply disappointing. Munster eyes have been green with envy over Leinster success and I'd love to have seen it being a motivating factor in rebuilding a golden core of Munster players. Endlessly looking at imports and poaching players from Leinster or Ulster or wherever shows a desperation to stay at the top table rather than do the hard thing and build from the ground up. Who knows what prospects could have been unearthed if you as a province had done a Leinster and mainly and largely built your team locally. Not only does player movement impact on Leinster but continually bringing in imports puts more of a load on Leinster to be the conveyor belt for the national team too.

Talking about Munster bringing in more saffers as sensible and trying to justify it as any other 'professional team' shows a total misunderstanding of the unique ingredient in Irish rugby (well Leinster are sticking to it currently) - that being local lads playing for their local province. Turn the Irish provinces into 4 professional teams just like Sarries or Toulon and you get what ?? Well I'm sure I don't need to explain it to you.........

Let's not get into a Henshaw and Cronin debate........just look at the catalogue of imports into Munster in recent years.........it kinda goes on a bit......

Look we can bat this backwards and forwards forever and it goes nowhere.

All I can say is I would like the Irish provinces to stick to largely being locally sourced players as it keeps that magic ingredient. Leinster, Munster and Ulster should all comfortably be able to field largely locally grown teams (Ulster BTW are little or no better than Munster ATM !!) even if it means not being at the very top table competitively. Munster don't have a divine right to be a top team in Europe, just like Leinster don't. You have to earn it and doing it the hard way rather than buying in saffers is something special.. Buying in Saffers and nicking Carbery is just doing a Toulon and isn't special at all........

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curates_egg
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by curates_egg »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:36 pm
neiliog93 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:11 pm
The IRFU interfered to strongarm Salanoa into moving. So now he's Munster's fourth choice having been Leinster's fourth choice. Really terrible message to send to Leinster and indeed the other provinces in terms of incentivising the development of young players.
I don’t get this kind of thinking, the idea is that he gets in the first choice 23 for Munster over the next year or two and then pushes on for Ireland, that’s when it can be judged. He’s also been injured recently so we don’t actually know where he is in the pecking order for Munster yet, could be 4th, could be 2nd, who knows?

If he ends up as first or second choice for Munster over the next 12 months and makes his debut for Ireland then I can’t imagine anyone will think that that wasn’t worth Leinster having to sign Parker on a 3 month deal.
As a Leinster fan, in theory, I couldn’t really care less if a Hawaiian import goes on to play for Ireland after playing for Munster...but that’s not the issue here.

The issue is very similar to Carbery, in that Leinster were planning a future for him. So much so, they decided to let another decent academy prospect leave. Then this guy, in whom Leinster had invested time and energy, reneged on an oral agreement, screwing Leinster’s plans and Aungier’s future. Cullen is strongly alluding to meddling by Nucifora again. That is the issue as I see it.

I would have been uncomfortable with Salanoa playing for Ireland even if he stayed with Leinster, because I find the ‘project player’ thing a bit wrong (I’ve no problem with guys who move to Ireland getting a chance to represent their new country but don’t like active poaching of young players). But I now hope the project fails, and we never see him in green. I don’t like liars.
Last edited by curates_egg on September 3rd, 2020, 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alanair
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by alanair »

munster#1 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:44 pm
Blueberry wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:20 pm
Nothing ironic about it......Munster's behaviour in recent years has been reprehensible and it's been driven by a bitterness towards our success.....rebuild, bring young players through and accept you may have to slip off your top table entitlement for a while. Then you can build something we can all respect. Bringing in Snyman and DDA this year shows exactly the problem you have.

Clearly Leo is pointing the finger at outside influences or a player being manipulated.......there is no way he is gonna say what he said lightly. They were pi**ed about Carbery and they were right to be, this is just more of the same. If the IRFU had any cop on at all they would be working with and not against Leinster. I think our track record in recent years and the outstanding performance should mean the powers that be in the IRFU should be working with Leinster....help not hinder.
I think it’s ironic that you say there is nothing ironic about it.

Your post is filled with bitterness.
Whether it is rightly placed or not, it is ironic that you post a bitter post giving out about Munster being bitter.

I seriously doubt that Munster signed those 2 players out of bitterness, they most likely signed them because they were available and improved the Munster squad, the very same reason why any professional team makes a signing.
They were 2 very sensible signings from a Munster perspective.
Much like how Leinster benefited from the likes of Henshaw and Cronin, 2 signings that greatly weakened an already weak squad, Or trying to sign Casey from Munster to improve Leinster’s depth at SH.

By all means blame the IRFU policies if you like, or the players for leaving, but it is very bitter to point the blame at Munster, especially when they have less Leinster players on their books than any of the provinces.
Your anger and disgust is pointed in the wrong direction.
Seriously- you come on ( regularly) to Leinster Fan website & are surprised that some people disagree with your Views - very, very silly - but there is a solution .... :D

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blockhead
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by blockhead »

Pretty sure Munster factor in "Will it hurt Leinster if we take this guy we are being offered by the IRFU?" as much is it good for their own squad. McCarthy is a good example. Getting a decent amount of game time with us but now none at all down in Munster. When we went to TP last Christmas we had to pull some lad out of the Trinity team to play 9 (played a stormer too btw).

With the likes of Sarries (altough not next season) and Racing beefing up their squad every year its a pity the IRFU seem determined to undermine us.
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munster#1
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by munster#1 »

Blueberry wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 9:37 pm
munster#1 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:44 pm
Blueberry wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:20 pm
Nothing ironic about it......Munster's behaviour in recent years has been reprehensible and it's been driven by a bitterness towards our success.....rebuild, bring young players through and accept you may have to slip off your top table entitlement for a while. Then you can build something we can all respect. Bringing in Snyman and DDA this year shows exactly the problem you have.

Clearly Leo is pointing the finger at outside influences or a player being manipulated.......there is no way he is gonna say what he said lightly. They were pi**ed about Carbery and they were right to be, this is just more of the same. If the IRFU had any cop on at all they would be working with and not against Leinster. I think our track record in recent years and the outstanding performance should mean the powers that be in the IRFU should be working with Leinster....help not hinder.
I think it’s ironic that you say there is nothing ironic about it.

Your post is filled with bitterness.
Whether it is rightly placed or not, it is ironic that you post a bitter post giving out about Munster being bitter.

I seriously doubt that Munster signed those 2 players out of bitterness, they most likely signed them because they were available and improved the Munster squad, the very same reason why any professional team makes a signing.
They were 2 very sensible signings from a Munster perspective.
Much like how Leinster benefited from the likes of Henshaw and Cronin, 2 signings that greatly weakened an already weak squad, Or trying to sign Casey from Munster to improve Leinster’s depth at SH.

By all means blame the IRFU policies if you like, or the players for leaving, but it is very bitter to point the blame at Munster, especially when they have less Leinster players on their books than any of the provinces.
Your anger and disgust is pointed in the wrong direction.
Look if you can't see what has been going on at Munster in recent years I really don't know what to say. I have no bitterness towards Munster, used to hugely respect what the province stood for and their behaviour in recent years is quite simply disappointing. Munster eyes have been green with envy over Leinster success and I'd love to have seen it being a motivating factor in rebuilding a golden core of Munster players. Endlessly looking at imports and poaching players from Leinster or Ulster or wherever shows a desperation to stay at the top table rather than do the hard thing and build from the ground up. Who knows what prospects could have been unearthed if you as a province had done a Leinster and mainly and largely built your team locally. Not only does player movement impact on Leinster but continually bringing in imports puts more of a load on Leinster to be the conveyor belt for the national team too.

Talking about Munster bringing in more saffers as sensible and trying to justify it as any other 'professional team' shows a total misunderstanding of the unique ingredient in Irish rugby (well Leinster are sticking to it currently) - that being local lads playing for their local province. Turn the Irish provinces into 4 professional teams just like Sarries or Toulon and you get what ?? Well I'm sure I don't need to explain it to you.........

Let's not get into a Henshaw and Cronin debate........just look at the catalogue of imports into Munster in recent years.........it kinda goes on a bit......

Look we can bat this backwards and forwards forever and it goes nowhere.

All I can say is I would like the Irish provinces to stick to largely being locally sourced players as it keeps that magic ingredient. Leinster, Munster and Ulster should all comfortably be able to field largely locally grown teams (Ulster BTW are little or no better than Munster ATM !!) even if it means not being at the very top table competitively. Munster don't have a divine right to be a top team in Europe, just like Leinster don't. You have to earn it and doing it the hard way rather than buying in saffers is something special.. Buying in Saffers and nicking Carbery is just doing a Toulon and isn't special at all........
Lots of points being made there, and I don’t expect to convince you to change your opinion, as I fully understand your frustration, I just think that your frustration is misplaced with regards to Carberry and Salanoa.
Although they ended up with Munster, in both cases the ball was rolling before Munster got involved.
Carberry was going to Ulster and Salanoa was rumoured to be going to Connacht.

These are the 2 sensible signings that I was talking about.
It would be foolish of any province to not try make those signings, much like if Casey and Crowley came on the market tomorrow.

You appear to have a bitterness towards Munster even though you say you don’t.
Ulster have taken a raft of players over the last few years, including 2 multi capped players (1 a capped lion), as have Connacht yet your beef is with Munster?

I do agree with you however when you say that Munster should be developing more of their own players, and it is good to see that they are making strides towards that, but it won’t be over night, much like it was for Leinster from how they were in 08/09 to how they are today.

I can only dream that Munster will get to the current levels of development that Leinster have right now, as it would be foolish to believe that they ever will while still being competitive.

If the other 3 provinces don’t take players from Leinster, then we will see a substantial number of talented players leave our shores or retiring.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

curates_egg wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 10:03 pm


As a Leinster fan, in theory, I couldn’t really care less if a Hawaiian import goes on to play for Ireland after playing for Munster...but that’s not the issue here.

The issue is very similar to Carbery, in that Leinster were planning a future for him. So much so, they decided to let another decent academy prospect leave. Then this guy, in whom Leinster had invested time and energy, reneged on an oral agreement, screwing Leinster’s plans and Aungier’s future. Cullen is strongly alluding to meddling by Nucifora again. That is the issue as I see it.

I would have been uncomfortable with Salanoa playing for Ireland even if he stayed with Leinster, because I find the ‘project player’ thing a bit wrong (I’ve no problem with guys who move to Ireland getting a chance to represent their new country but don’t like active poaching of young players). But I now hope the project fails, and we never see him in green. I don’t like liars.
Sorry but that’s not actually the issue in the context of what I was replying to. People are saying that Nucifora has made a mistake and I’m saying that he hasn’t, or at least that Salanoa “being 4th choice” and Leinster having to sign Parker aren’t evidence that he’s messed up.

I don’t think Salanoa should have moved but that’s a separate issue to people reacting to Leo’s comments by saying that Nucifora has made a b*%&!cks of it.

I hate a lot of the decisions that Nucifora makes (Joey being one of them) but by and large there’s logic to them and people tend to ignore that when they go after him. It made sense for the IRFU to have Joey/Ross starting for Ulster/Munster, it made sense to cut Pienaar in order to have more options at 9, and it makes sense for them to want a young tighthead getting more games for a province that needs an upgrade (and Archer and Ryan are both 32) in that area.

The idea that he’s screwed us over and created a mess because we have to sign a 6th choice prop is just nonsense.

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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Blueberry »

munster#1 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 10:39 pm
Blueberry wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 9:37 pm
munster#1 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 8:44 pm


I think it’s ironic that you say there is nothing ironic about it.

Your post is filled with bitterness.
Whether it is rightly placed or not, it is ironic that you post a bitter post giving out about Munster being bitter.

I seriously doubt that Munster signed those 2 players out of bitterness, they most likely signed them because they were available and improved the Munster squad, the very same reason why any professional team makes a signing.
They were 2 very sensible signings from a Munster perspective.
Much like how Leinster benefited from the likes of Henshaw and Cronin, 2 signings that greatly weakened an already weak squad, Or trying to sign Casey from Munster to improve Leinster’s depth at SH.

By all means blame the IRFU policies if you like, or the players for leaving, but it is very bitter to point the blame at Munster, especially when they have less Leinster players on their books than any of the provinces.
Your anger and disgust is pointed in the wrong direction.
Look if you can't see what has been going on at Munster in recent years I really don't know what to say. I have no bitterness towards Munster, used to hugely respect what the province stood for and their behaviour in recent years is quite simply disappointing. Munster eyes have been green with envy over Leinster success and I'd love to have seen it being a motivating factor in rebuilding a golden core of Munster players. Endlessly looking at imports and poaching players from Leinster or Ulster or wherever shows a desperation to stay at the top table rather than do the hard thing and build from the ground up. Who knows what prospects could have been unearthed if you as a province had done a Leinster and mainly and largely built your team locally. Not only does player movement impact on Leinster but continually bringing in imports puts more of a load on Leinster to be the conveyor belt for the national team too.

Talking about Munster bringing in more saffers as sensible and trying to justify it as any other 'professional team' shows a total misunderstanding of the unique ingredient in Irish rugby (well Leinster are sticking to it currently) - that being local lads playing for their local province. Turn the Irish provinces into 4 professional teams just like Sarries or Toulon and you get what ?? Well I'm sure I don't need to explain it to you.........

Let's not get into a Henshaw and Cronin debate........just look at the catalogue of imports into Munster in recent years.........it kinda goes on a bit......

Look we can bat this backwards and forwards forever and it goes nowhere.

All I can say is I would like the Irish provinces to stick to largely being locally sourced players as it keeps that magic ingredient. Leinster, Munster and Ulster should all comfortably be able to field largely locally grown teams (Ulster BTW are little or no better than Munster ATM !!) even if it means not being at the very top table competitively. Munster don't have a divine right to be a top team in Europe, just like Leinster don't. You have to earn it and doing it the hard way rather than buying in saffers is something special.. Buying in Saffers and nicking Carbery is just doing a Toulon and isn't special at all........
Lots of points being made there, and I don’t expect to convince you to change your opinion, as I fully understand your frustration, I just think that your frustration is misplaced with regards to Carberry and Salanoa.
Although they ended up with Munster, in both cases the ball was rolling before Munster got involved.
Carberry was going to Ulster and Salanoa was rumoured to be going to Connacht.

These are the 2 sensible signings that I was talking about.
It would be foolish of any province to not try make those signings, much like if Casey and Crowley came on the market tomorrow.

You appear to have a bitterness towards Munster even though you say you don’t.
Ulster have taken a raft of players over the last few years, including 2 multi capped players (1 a capped lion), as have Connacht yet your beef is with Munster?

I do agree with you however when you say that Munster should be developing more of their own players, and it is good to see that they are making strides towards that, but it won’t be over night, much like it was for Leinster from how they were in 08/09 to how they are today.

I can only dream that Munster will get to the current levels of development that Leinster have right now, as it would be foolish to believe that they ever will while still being competitive.

If the other 3 provinces don’t take players from Leinster, then we will see a substantial number of talented players leave our shores or retiring.
When you have a very successful model like Leinster you work with not against it at all times, why ? - because it is worth protecting. My issue isn't particularly Munster, Ulster have been as bad of late if not worse. As I said, not bitter, just disappointed. Yes Leinster are producing surplus players atm but moving these players around needs to be with Leinster sanction, I.e Leinster wanted to hang onto Carbery and this mess with Aungier and Salanoa is another example. Neither would have happened if Leinster sanction was sought. The IRFU needs to stop meddling.

Munster and Ulster need to develop more local talent period, every saffer they buy in and poach from Leinster etc is just exacerbating the problem so it is not good business, just a quick fix.

Hopefully it will improve in time but I fear the situation will get worse if the IRFU don't change tack.

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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by ronk »

Glad to have Parker. He had a lot of potential when Munster signed him and it didn’t work out for him through injuries, Munster being Munster and the signing of Salanoa.

Leinster were dropped in it by Nucifora. Another bad move by him that hasn’t taken long to blow up. Lots of people liked to talk about the depth at Leinster but having 2 international tightheads means that we need depth during international windows. This was the expected result once Salanoa left. We got 1 injury and we’re 1 injury away from not having a 23 once the international break starts. Breaking the provincial detente has been a disaster.

Salanoa has been injured but Munster have used 2 tightheads this season, Leinster 3. There was no way Salanoa was getting a chance. And his odds during the international window aren’t looking too good either.

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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by curates_egg »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 11:46 pm
curates_egg wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 10:03 pm


As a Leinster fan, in theory, I couldn’t really care less if a Hawaiian import goes on to play for Ireland after playing for Munster...but that’s not the issue here.

The issue is very similar to Carbery, in that Leinster were planning a future for him. So much so, they decided to let another decent academy prospect leave. Then this guy, in whom Leinster had invested time and energy, reneged on an oral agreement, screwing Leinster’s plans and Aungier’s future. Cullen is strongly alluding to meddling by Nucifora again. That is the issue as I see it.

I would have been uncomfortable with Salanoa playing for Ireland even if he stayed with Leinster, because I find the ‘project player’ thing a bit wrong (I’ve no problem with guys who move to Ireland getting a chance to represent their new country but don’t like active poaching of young players). But I now hope the project fails, and we never see him in green. I don’t like liars.
Sorry but that’s not actually the issue in the context of what I was replying to. People are saying that Nucifora has made a mistake and I’m saying that he hasn’t, or at least that Salanoa “being 4th choice” and Leinster having to sign Parker aren’t evidence that he’s messed up.

I don’t think Salanoa should have moved but that’s a separate issue to people reacting to Leo’s comments by saying that Nucifora has made a b*%&!cks of it.

I hate a lot of the decisions that Nucifora makes (Joey being one of them) but by and large there’s logic to them and people tend to ignore that when they go after him. It made sense for the IRFU to have Joey/Ross starting for Ulster/Munster, it made sense to cut Pienaar in order to have more options at 9, and it makes sense for them to want a young tighthead getting more games for a province that needs an upgrade (and Archer and Ryan are both 32) in that area.

The idea that he’s screwed us over and created a mess because we have to sign a 6th choice prop is just nonsense.
Ah come on. He has screwed us over, and he has created a mess, and we have had to sign emergency cover to deal with it. I don't think it is controversial in the least to state that. It's a fact.

Now, in terms of what you interpret his remit to be (getting potential internationals more game time), you could argue it makes sense for Team Ireland. Although, how many of the other moves he was involved in really worked out? McCarthy is a case in point: getting far fewer game minutes with Munster than he was Leinster. An argument could also be coherently made that moving Carbery from the best coaching and S&C set up to a bunch of amateurs has also negatively impacted his career. I certainly would.

However, if that really is his sole remit, it is also easy to argue that such a narrow remit is clearly not necessarily in the interest of Irish rugby as a whole. How does weakening Leinster or moving young, developing players to poorer coaching and welfare set ups really improve the bigger picture for Irish rugby?
Once the door hits him on his way out, I hope they either discontinue the position or fundamentally rethink the remit, if it really is as you interpret it to be.

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Peg Leg
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Peg Leg »

Leinster are a business, Munster are a business. They both have specific goals to achieve, they have specific employee benefit packages and perks. Leinsters education, training, international shop window and getting to work with the best make them very attractive and probably offsets some of the wage expectations. Munster offers a lot of that, but just a little less, but you could achieve your personal goals there quicker.
Both companies have an internal recruitment team and both of them use the IRFU recruitment agency. Employees move for their best interests, businesses deal with it, fairness and jealousy are not part of the equation.
Now that said, a company can be disappointed that it's compelling case was not enough to keep a player given the investment, but mostly will appreciate a players appetite for a challenge.

Salanoa though, he shafted his coaches and left his colleagues in a difficult situation, house Ireland is a very small bungalow with a really large front door step, Salanoa's dump on the doormat is going to be something he finds himself having to deal with every time he's there to knock on the door.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Dave Cahill »

Peg Leg wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 9:38 am

Salanoa though, he shafted his coaches and left his colleagues in a difficult situation, house Ireland is a very small bungalow with a really large front door step, Salanoa's dump on the doormat is going to be something he finds himself having to deal with every time he's there to knock on the door.
I don't know that that's entirely fair on Salanoa, we don't know what pressure he was under from elsewhere...

Leo: So, have you decided what you want to do next season?
RS: I have Coach, I'm gonna stay here if y'all will have me.
Leo: Excellent, listen, I have to deal with this other player first, then we'll sit down and get the contracts sorted. How does that sound?
RS: Yeehaw, that sure sounds good to me Coach, have a nice day

RS toddles off home, when he gets there, he hears the phone ringing

RS (picking up the phone): Howdy, you got Roman, how may I help you
Phone: <Heavy deep breathing, with an air of menace>
RS: Hello, is there anybody there?
Phone: <Breathing continues, menace deepens>
RS: Hello? Hello?
Phone: G'day Cobber
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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by munster#1 »

curates_egg wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 8:07 am
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 11:46 pm
curates_egg wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 10:03 pm


As a Leinster fan, in theory, I couldn’t really care less if a Hawaiian import goes on to play for Ireland after playing for Munster...but that’s not the issue here.

The issue is very similar to Carbery, in that Leinster were planning a future for him. So much so, they decided to let another decent academy prospect leave. Then this guy, in whom Leinster had invested time and energy, reneged on an oral agreement, screwing Leinster’s plans and Aungier’s future. Cullen is strongly alluding to meddling by Nucifora again. That is the issue as I see it.

I would have been uncomfortable with Salanoa playing for Ireland even if he stayed with Leinster, because I find the ‘project player’ thing a bit wrong (I’ve no problem with guys who move to Ireland getting a chance to represent their new country but don’t like active poaching of young players). But I now hope the project fails, and we never see him in green. I don’t like liars.
Sorry but that’s not actually the issue in the context of what I was replying to. People are saying that Nucifora has made a mistake and I’m saying that he hasn’t, or at least that Salanoa “being 4th choice” and Leinster having to sign Parker aren’t evidence that he’s messed up.

I don’t think Salanoa should have moved but that’s a separate issue to people reacting to Leo’s comments by saying that Nucifora has made a b*%&!cks of it.

I hate a lot of the decisions that Nucifora makes (Joey being one of them) but by and large there’s logic to them and people tend to ignore that when they go after him. It made sense for the IRFU to have Joey/Ross starting for Ulster/Munster, it made sense to cut Pienaar in order to have more options at 9, and it makes sense for them to want a young tighthead getting more games for a province that needs an upgrade (and Archer and Ryan are both 32) in that area.

The idea that he’s screwed us over and created a mess because we have to sign a 6th choice prop is just nonsense.
Ah come on. He has screwed us over, and he has created a mess, and we have had to sign emergency cover to deal with it. I don't think it is controversial in the least to state that. It's a fact.

Now, in terms of what you interpret his remit to be (getting potential internationals more game time), you could argue it makes sense for Team Ireland. Although, how many of the other moves he was involved in really worked out? McCarthy is a case in point: getting far fewer game minutes with Munster than he was Leinster. An argument could also be coherently made that moving Carbery from the best coaching and S&C set up to a bunch of amateurs has also negatively impacted his career. I certainly would.

However, if that really is his sole remit, it is also easy to argue that such a narrow remit is clearly not necessarily in the interest of Irish rugby as a whole. How does weakening Leinster or moving young, developing players to poorer coaching and welfare set ups really improve the bigger picture for Irish rugby?
Once the door hits him on his way out, I hope they either discontinue the position or fundamentally rethink the remit, if it really is as you interpret it to be.
Bit over the top there calling the Munster coaching set up a bunch of amateurs.
Munster are regularly a top 4 team in Europe and the league.
When you look at the players at Munster’s disposal, that is an over achievement. That doesn’t happen that regularly by accident, Munster have generally always been a well drilled and coached team, but have been caught out at the top level due to lack of power and quality.

Additionally, Mc Carty is the exception to the rule, and I’m not sure that the IRFU instigated that move?

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Re: Leinster Squad 19-20

Post by Laighin Break »

Dave Cahill wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 9:54 am
Peg Leg wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 9:38 am

Salanoa though, he shafted his coaches and left his colleagues in a difficult situation, house Ireland is a very small bungalow with a really large front door step, Salanoa's dump on the doormat is going to be something he finds himself having to deal with every time he's there to knock on the door.
I don't know that that's entirely fair on Salanoa, we don't know what pressure he was under from elsewhere...

Leo: So, have you decided what you want to do next season?
RS: I have Coach, I'm gonna stay here if y'all will have me.
Leo: Excellent, listen, I have to deal with this other player first, then we'll sit down and get the contracts sorted. How does that sound?
RS: Yeehaw, that sure sounds good to me Coach, have a nice day

RS toddles off home, when he gets there, he hears the phone ringing

RS (picking up the phone): Howdy, you got Roman, how may I help you
Phone: <Heavy deep breathing, with an air of menace>
RS: Hello, is there anybody there?
Phone: <Breathing continues, menace deepens>
RS: Hello? Hello?
Phone: G'day Cobber
Who will you cast in your screen adaptation?

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