The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Five.

[Jonny tight lips]

Will be interesting to see what side we put out in the RDS for the Pro14 semi.
I'd say it will be a bit of a mix and match with guys like Ross Byrne, Adam Byrne, JGP, Deegan, Molony (if fit) coming in.

I'd agree with the above, adding Molony, Porter and Rhys to the above gives us far better bench options.

On this form Fardy has to start the final imo. I love Rhys but how can you drop Fardy, he just gives so much.

Is the semi not the week after the final and likely to be against Munster?

Pencilled in for Friday the 17th I think. 6 day turnaround.

Are we pencilled in for the Friday? Seems odd considering we are the only team to play the week before?

[leinsterfan100]

Doesn't give that indication on the Pro 14 site anyways - just says '17/18 May TBC'

[mildlyinterested]

ROL featuring heavily in training photos today, no sign of Tomane or Jack Dunne.

Baird/Dowlng featuring heavily also.

[Jonny tight lips]

Yup Poite would be my choice too. Nigel reffing a final in Newcastle would have a whiff of 'this game is all about me' about it...

Garces was poor on Sat. If it's him it'll be a case of who can stand halfway up a ruck and not get caught.

Albeit I would back a few of our lads to cause a bit of havoc around the ruck if he was the man in charge. Fardy is notorious in this area, an absolute pest!

Nigel was vocal about the Folau episode on several media platforms. The dynamics between him and Billy V might make for a distracting subplot and much like his selection for MotM the media will be clamouring for Owens to ref this one.

A subplot of Nigel reffing Billy is neither interesting nor desirable. What was wrong with Billy getting MOTM, he was as worthy as anyone really. Should he be banned from winning MOTM for the rest of his life now. If he’s playing he should be treated the same as any other player out there. He’s a bit of a d!%khead but sure that’s life.

I’m just happy it’s not gonna be somebody who grew up supporting Saracens and came through their academy to play for his boyhood hero’s who’s been assigned to ref the game. You know the kind of amateur sh!t the Pro14 pull.

[Ruckedtobits]

Gauzere or Reynal are also options given their performances in the 6N. It will be an all French selection as the Challenge Cupp will be either all Welsh or all English (Ireland don't have three at this level anymore).

I hope Poite doesn't get the game. His performance for the Toulouse v Clermont game was bizarre and he is becoming Nigelesque in his discussions with TMO.

Reynal is the sort of efficient, non-pompous, referee that I like for a big game. I think his style is the definition of neutrality.

[blockhead]

The idea that Nigel would not get the gig because it would be controversial to do so with Billy Bigot on one of the teams would be a massive step backwards for rugby.

[artaneboy]

The idea that Nigel would not get the gig because it would be controversial to do so with Billy Bigot on one of the teams would be a massive step backwards for rugby.

Why- so the “Nigel and Billy Show” can be centre stage? And you seriously think that’s something not to be avoided- or maybe actually to be desired? Jaysus! Aside from Nigel’s slipping performance standards- the Champions Cup is not a canvas for political platforming.

Owens doesn’t deserve the gig on form- and the suggestion that he should get it irrespective of his apparent publicly stated position on this issue, cannot be seriously considered. I haven’t seen any of the social media posts referred to- and while I may have personally agreed with his position, as a current referee Nigel should not be posting at all on such an issue. There’s an obvious potential conflict there.

Maybe he does not care and wants to speak up for those who haven’t a voice. Fine- but there’s a price on that. It is obvious that there will be a perception of bias in a match played in the immediate aftermath of both sets of comments. And surprise, surprise, here we are...

Even if we agree that Vinopolo was totally out of order in his tweet- he’s been dealt with by Saracens. If he makes such statements again, I’d expect he’ll be justifiably fired. But for now, I want to beat Saracens with no distractions or excuses in the frame.

[blockhead]

The idea that Nigel would not get the gig because it would be controversial to do so with Billy Bigot on one of the teams would be a massive step backwards for rugby.

Why- so the “Nigel and Billy Show” can be centre stage? And you seriously think that’s something not to be avoided- or maybe actually to be desired? Jaysus! Aside from Nigel’s slipping performance standards- the Champions Cup is not a canvas for political platforming.

Owens doesn’t deserve the gig on form- and the suggestion that he should get it irrespective of his apparent publicly stated position on this issue, cannot be seriously considered. I haven’t seen any of the social media posts referred to- and while I may have personally agreed with his position, as a current referee Nigel should not be posting at all on such an issue. There’s an obvious potential conflict there.

Maybe he does not care and wants to speak up for those who haven’t a voice. Fine- but there’s a price on that. It is obvious that there will be a perception of bias in a match played in the immediate aftermath of both sets of comments. And surprise, surprise, here we are...

Even if we agree that Vinopolo was totally out of order in his tweet- he’s been dealt with by Saracens. If he makes such statements again, I’d expect he’ll be justifiably fired. But for now, I want to beat Saracens with no distractions or excuses in the frame.

I get ya AB. No gays refs for the Heino Final.

[ronk]

It’s a sideshow, there’s rugby to be played.

[artaneboy]

The idea that Nigel would not get the gig because it would be controversial to do so with Billy Bigot on one of the teams would be a massive step backwards for rugby.

Why- so the “Nigel and Billy Show” can be centre stage? And you seriously think that’s something not to be avoided- or maybe actually to be desired? Jaysus! Aside from Nigel’s slipping performance standards- the Champions Cup is not a canvas for political platforming.

Owens doesn’t deserve the gig on form- and the suggestion that he should get it irrespective of his apparent publicly stated position on this issue, cannot be seriously considered. I haven’t seen any of the social media posts referred to- and while I may have personally agreed with his position, as a current referee Nigel should not be posting at all on such an issue. There’s an obvious potential conflict there.

Maybe he does not care and wants to speak up for those who haven’t a voice. Fine- but there’s a price on that. It is obvious that there will be a perception of bias in a match played in the immediate aftermath of both sets of comments. And surprise, surprise, here we are...

Even if we agree that Vinopolo was totally out of order in his tweet- he’s been dealt with by Saracens. If he makes such statements again, I’d expect he’ll be justifiably fired. But for now, I want to beat Saracens with no distractions or excuses in the frame.

I get ya AB. No gays refs for the Heino Final.

Yeah- your level of analysis is right up there. Don’t hurt yourself getting down from that high horse.


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[Laighin Break]

Why- so the “Nigel and Billy Show” can be centre stage? And you seriously think that’s something not to be avoided- or maybe actually to be desired? Jaysus! Aside from Nigel’s slipping performance standards- the Champions Cup is not a canvas for political platforming.

Owens doesn’t deserve the gig on form- and the suggestion that he should get it irrespective of his apparent publicly stated position on this issue, cannot be seriously considered. I haven’t seen any of the social media posts referred to- and while I may have personally agreed with his position, as a current referee Nigel should not be posting at all on such an issue. There’s an obvious potential conflict there.

Maybe he does not care and wants to speak up for those who haven’t a voice. Fine- but there’s a price on that. It is obvious that there will be a perception of bias in a match played in the immediate aftermath of both sets of comments. And surprise, surprise, here we are...

Even if we agree that Vinopolo was totally out of order in his tweet- he’s been dealt with by Saracens. If he makes such statements again, I’d expect he’ll be justifiably fired. But for now, I want to beat Saracens with no distractions or excuses in the frame.

I get ya AB. No gays refs for the Heino Final.

Yeah- your level of analysis is right up there. Don’t hurt yourself getting down from that high horse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who's saying the “Nigel and Billy Show” would be centre stage? If Leinster had an openly gay player, would that be centre stage and should Leinster not play him because of that? Or if there were racist remarks made by a player, should the EPCR not pick a referee of the offended race?
Fine if you don't think Nigel should get in based on merit, but not because you think it would add a subplot that should be avoided.

[suisse]

It's a pity we can't have referees from the same country as the participating countries. I'd have no issue with Wayne Barnes doing this game. He was a little bit soft at the breakdown/midfield off-side but his communication skills are perfect. He's not as fussy or as moody as he was before. I get the feeling the players like the games he controls because of the way he talks to them. None of the referees are perfect or even close to it but Barnes' strengths are better than the strengths of any other referee.

[ChrisUppy]

Why- so the “Nigel and Billy Show” can be centre stage? And you seriously think that’s something not to be avoided- or maybe actually to be desired? Jaysus! Aside from Nigel’s slipping performance standards- the Champions Cup is not a canvas for political platforming.

Owens doesn’t deserve the gig on form- and the suggestion that he should get it irrespective of his apparent publicly stated position on this issue, cannot be seriously considered. I haven’t seen any of the social media posts referred to- and while I may have personally agreed with his position, as a current referee Nigel should not be posting at all on such an issue. There’s an obvious potential conflict there.

Maybe he does not care and wants to speak up for those who haven’t a voice. Fine- but there’s a price on that. It is obvious that there will be a perception of bias in a match played in the immediate aftermath of both sets of comments. And surprise, surprise, here we are...

Even if we agree that Vinopolo was totally out of order in his tweet- he’s been dealt with by Saracens. If he makes such statements again, I’d expect he’ll be justifiably fired. But for now, I want to beat Saracens with no distractions or excuses in the frame.

I get ya AB. No gays refs for the Heino Final.

Yeah- your level of analysis is right up there. Don’t hurt yourself getting down from that high horse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely you can appreciate how denying a gay ref (if he's deemed the most suitable regardless of his sexuality) the chance take charge of the biggest club game of the calendar because of the presence of a bigot is regressive? Much like how denying any professional a prestigous opportunity in their field based on their sexuality would be.

[artaneboy]

I get ya AB. No gays refs for the Heino Final.

Yeah- your level of analysis is right up there. Don’t hurt yourself getting down from that high horse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely you can appreciate how denying a gay ref (if he's deemed the most suitable regardless of his sexuality) the chance take charge of the biggest club game of the calendar because of the presence of a bigot is regressive? Much like how denying any professional a prestigous opportunity in their field based on their sexuality would be.

He compromised himself. Nothing to do with sexuality; totally to do with his public commentary. Everybody needs to put their phones down.


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[ChrisUppy]

He compromised himself. Nothing to do with sexuality; totally to do with his public commentary. Everybody needs to put their phones down.


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As far as I can tell, this is what Owens has said on the matter:

“I think, although everybody had the right to have his view, you then have to understand there are consequences when you express a view that can be very, very hurtful to lot of people.

“When you do cross that line of what is acceptable and what is not, particularly when you’re in a position of influence, then you have to take responsibility for your actions.

“But, look, I don’t judge people. I have a job to do on that field and I will just referee what’s in front of me and treat every player on the field the same and with respect.

“That’s all I need to do as a referee and that’s all I will ever do.

“I’ve refereed those players in the past many times and they’ve treated me with respect every time I’ve officiated them.”

“This would be the message from me – I think you should judge people on the person they are, not on the colour of their skin, not on their sexual orientation, not on their religious beliefs or their political views. Just judge somebody on the decent person that they are.

“There are some things in your life you can choose, but sexuality is not one of them."

“I respect people who are brought up with religious beliefs. Some who are entrenched and will follow those religious beliefs no matter how narrow minded they may be to the rest of us, but that is their belief and I understand that and respect that.

“But I also like them to understand and respect that this is who I am.

“I am glad rugby has allowed me to be who I am, that rugby is an inclusive sport for everybody involved in it.

“That, I think, is the important message from the huge majority of people out there in rugby, that it is an inclusive sport for everybody involved with it.

“That’s what we can all learn from this.”

Not sure what Owens has said to compromise himself there, but maybe ask what Vunipola has done to compromise himself. And I'll caveat the whole thing by saying I only think Owens should be selected if he's deemed the best available referee.

Also

Everybody needs to put their phones down.


!!!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk!!!

Ah yeah, thanks for that one. For what it's worth I'm on a laptop

[fourthirtythree]

He compromised himself 1. Nothing to do with sexuality 2; totally to do with his public commentary 3. Everybody needs to put their phones down 4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5

1 Nope
2 Nonsense
3 Excuses
4 Nope
5 No wait. Maybe 4 has something about it...

[mildlyinterested]

Possible 23?

1. Cian Healy(31)
2. James Tracy(28)
3. Tadhg Furlong(26)
4. Devin Toner(32)
5. James Ryan(22)
6. Scott Fardy(34)
7. Sean O'Brien(32)
8. Jack Conan(26)
9. Luke McGrath(26)
10. Johnny Sexton(33)
11. James Lowe(26)
12. Robbie Henshaw(25)
13. Garry Ringrose(24)
14. Jordan Larmour(21)
15. Rob Kearney(33)
16. Bryan Byrne(25)
17. Ed Byrne(25
18. Andrew Porter(23)
19. Caelan Doris(21)
20. Max Deegan(22)
21. Hugh O'Sullivan(21)
22. Ross Byrne(24)
23. Rory O'Loughlin(25)

[Leoslovechild]

Possible 23?

1. Cian Healy(31)
2. James Tracy(28)
3. Tadhg Furlong(26)
4. Devin Toner(32)
5. James Ryan(22)
6. Scott Fardy(34)
7. Sean O'Brien(32)
8. Jack Conan(26)
9. Luke McGrath(26)
10. Johnny Sexton(33)
11. James Lowe(26)
12. Robbie Henshaw(25)
13. Garry Ringrose(24)
14. Jordan Larmour(21)
15. Rob Kearney(33)
16. Bryan Byrne(25)
17. Ed Byrne(25
18. Andrew Porter(23)
19. Caelan Doris(21)
20. Max Deegan(22)
21. Hugh O'Sullivan(21)
22. Ross Byrne(24)
23. Rory O'Loughlin(25)

Very likely if Cronin and Ruddock are out

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't get this idea that players/coaches/referees should keep quiet on an issue like this, or anything really. It's important, and standing up to the b*%&!cks that Billy V and others spouted is far more important than any effect that that has on the game. It's worth remembering two things, Vunipola was warned by both the RFU and Saracens and yet the post is still up, and he said that "he believes what he believes" in his post match interview on Saturday. The idea that someone should think "no, I can't speak out against that in case there's a conflict of interest" doesn't make any sense to me. That logic may apply to some issues, but not one like this.

I actually think that if he doesn't take the post down then he should be banned. What's the point in the warning if he isn't?

[backrower8]

Possible 23?

1. Cian Healy(31)
2. James Tracy(28)
3. Tadhg Furlong(26)
4. Devin Toner(32)
5. James Ryan(22)
6. Scott Fardy(34)
7. Sean O'Brien(32)
8. Jack Conan(26)
9. Luke McGrath(26)
10. Johnny Sexton(33)
11. James Lowe(26)
12. Robbie Henshaw(25)
13. Garry Ringrose(24)
14. Jordan Larmour(21)
15. Rob Kearney(33)
16. Bryan Byrne(25)
17. Ed Byrne(25
18. Andrew Porter(23)
19. Caelan Doris(21)
20. Max Deegan(22)
21. Hugh O'Sullivan(21)
22. Ross Byrne(24)
23. Rory O'Loughlin(25)

Strong possibility that is what we are looking at. That bench is very, very inexperienced and shows how hollowed out we have become through injury and departures.

A staggering 21 native Irish players with 20 Leinster-born. I think it is better on most levels for a team to have as many players coming from its own catchment area. It deepens community and fan-base reach, fosters next generations of fans and players, keeps costs lower, feeds national team, players are more committed on average, deepens commercial engagement due to vibrant, growing fan base.

2 Kolpak players. 2 players from provincial rugby - Tullow & Enniscorthy. 17 from rugby schools. 5 Michael’s; 3 Clongowes; 2 each Belvo/Andrew’s/ Rock; 1 each Mary’s/ Newbridge/ Gerard’s/ Castlenock & Marist. Terenure the most notable absentee.