JS v RB

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Xanthippe
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JS v RB

Post by Xanthippe »

There seems to be a lot of dismissing of Ross Byrne going on at the moment so can I take a minute to remind everyone that he is almost exactly 10 years younger than J-Sex (9 years and 9 months) and made his debut almost exactly 10 years after him (9 years and 7 months). Both were 20 when they made their debut and in their first 4 seasons were competing with an exceptionally talented incumbent.

In his first 4 years (as understudy to Dr Phil) Sexton played in 32 league and 8 European games (2115 minutes) while Felipe played in 62 and 26 (6662 minutes)

In Byrne’s first 4 years (as understudy to Sexton) he played in 54 league and 17 European games (3894 minutes) while Sexton played in 26 and 24 (3121 minutes)

Below is a slightly more detailed look at both players’ first 4 seasons:

Image
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wixfjord
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Re: JS v RB

Post by wixfjord »

Xanthippe wrote:There seems to be a lot of dismissing of Ross Byrne going on at the moment
Is there though Xan?

Great post which gives good context, but I think that's hamming it up a bit. Not seeing much 'dismissing' of Byrne.

I think people are (rightly imo) saying he was really poor on Sat and at times looked like he didn't want to be out there. That's against the backdrop of starting the season well.

I also think this idea (mainly promoted by one poster in particular) that he should immediately replace Sexton in a green or blue jersey is a bit ridiculous. Certainly in blue if Sexton is fit he starts and Byrne hasn't really shown enough to overturn that for now.

I think there's questions over his athleticism/running game and some hints that his younger brother might have more about him in this area in the future. (That's one contrast between young Sexton and him. Even Johnny at that stage had an ability to run, open up defences and get 'second touches' that was clear to see.)

But I also think he's clearly a very good 10 who has led us through some big, big games and has huge potential to improve. Plus his kick pass is one of the best in the world and a very effective weapon.

So not really being 'dismissed' per se, most of the stuff I've seen is a bit more nuanced than that!

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Logorrhea
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Logorrhea »

wixfjord wrote:.............some hints that his younger brother might have more about him in this area in the future.
......... and before that Carberry was the man to take over for Sexton. I believe people are generally waiting for another great white hope to come along.

wixfjord
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Re: JS v RB

Post by wixfjord »

Logorrhea wrote:
wixfjord wrote:.............some hints that his younger brother might have more about him in this area in the future.
......... and before that Carberry was the man to take over for Sexton. I believe people are generally waiting for another great white hope to come along.
Not really sure what you’re saying here?

Carbery was the main hope to take the 10 jersey and will probably do it in green now that he has moved on. For now, Ross is in pole position to do it in blue when the time comes.

But also from what we’ve seen of both Byrnes, admittedly at very different levels, Harry seems to have a bit more athleticism and a running game than Ross. Nothing about that is hype about a ‘great white hope’.

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Serb
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Serb »

......... and before that Carberry was the man to take over for Sexton. I believe people are generally waiting for another great white hope to come along.
The problem however is we’re going from literally the best outhalf in the world, probably the best 10 we’ve ever seen in green or in blue, to someone who realistically is nowhere near that level right now.

It’s a scary prospect. We have exceptionally high expectations from our outhalf. Even a very good 10 would be below expectations and would significantly weaken Leinster.

We know how low Ross Byrne can go, his performance last week was probably one of the worst he’s produced for us, but the highs haven’t really been that high. His best games have basically been solid but not outstanding. Has he ever been man of the match in a game for us?

I don’t think he currently meets the standard that we expect, but that’s ok for now. The question is, will he be good enough by the time Sexton retires? I’m not sure he will be.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: JS v RB

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

wixfjord wrote:
Xanthippe wrote:There seems to be a lot of dismissing of Ross Byrne going on at the moment
Is there though Xan?

Great post which gives good context, but I think that's hamming it up a bit. Not seeing much 'dismissing' of Byrne.
Someone literally said we wouldn't win a European Cup with Ross at ten. I reckon you think that Xan started this in response to your comments about him but I very much doubt that was the case. It's also just good to take decent chats away from the Michaels shite.

Great post Xan. Ross also scored ALL of our points in a crucial win away from home last weekend. When did Johnny last manage that?

wixfjord
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Re: JS v RB

Post by wixfjord »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
Xanthippe wrote:There seems to be a lot of dismissing of Ross Byrne going on at the moment
Is there though Xan?

Great post which gives good context, but I think that's hamming it up a bit. Not seeing much 'dismissing' of Byrne.
Someone literally said we wouldn't win a European Cup with Ross at ten. I reckon you think that Xan started this in response to your comments about him but I very much doubt that was the case. It's also just good to take decent chats away from the Michaels shite.

Great post Xan. Ross also scored ALL of our points in a crucial win away from home last weekend. When did Johnny last manage that?
You can ‘reckon’ what you wish LRIP :lol:

I would hope she didn’t because that’s not what I said anyway, but I would also say it’s a reaction to wider posts not just mine. I’m not that egotistical!

My point is though I don’t think there’s been a ‘lot of dismissing’ going on, rather some fair enough comments.

The rest of my OP gives what I think is a fair summary of the current situation.
Last edited by wixfjord on October 29th, 2019, 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: JS v RB

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Well it was a nicer way of saying you were being a bit precious :D

carlow man
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Re: JS v RB

Post by carlow man »

I think Ross Byrne is a very good 10. But if he stays injury free, i think Ciaran Frawley has the ability to be a serious option for us in the next year or 2. Guy has huge potential!

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Xanthippe
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Xanthippe »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Someone literally said we wouldn't win a European Cup with Ross at ten.
You’re right LRIP - that was the post that was one too many for me. I wasn’t having a go at anyone - rather I was trying to show that 10 or 11 years ago we’d all have been panicking at the thoughts of Felipe being injured and Johnny having to take over and yet that’s exactly what happened and the rest, as they say, is history!!!

Rugby supporters can be a funny bunch - over on Munsterfans a young player has one good game and is immediately touted as the saviour of Irish rugby whereas on here we seem to look for reasons to drag lads down and dismiss their achievements.

I’d imagine if you removed the players names and gave the stats above to a supporter from another club/country and asked them to guess which belonged to who, most would get it wrong.
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Ruckedtobits
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Xanthippe wrote:There seems to be a lot of dismissing of Ross Byrne going on at the moment so can I take a minute to remind everyone that he is almost exactly 10 years younger than J-Sex (9 years and 9 months) and made his debut almost exactly 10 years after him (9 years and 7 months). Both were 20 when they made their debut and in their first 4 seasons were competing with an exceptionally talented incumbent.

In his first 4 years (as understudy to Dr Phil) Sexton played in 32 league and 8 European games (2115 minutes) while Felipe played in 62 and 26 (6662 minutes)

In Byrne’s first 4 years (as understudy to Sexton) he played in 54 league and 17 European games (3894 minutes) while Sexton played in 26 and 24 (3121 minutes)

Below is a slightly more detailed look at both players’ first 4 seasons:

Image
Excellent post as usual @Xanthippe. Some of the relevant aspects in the comparison
include:

1. Injury records of Dr Phil & J10;
2. Presence of a "3rd candidate" in Joey for some of the years;
3. IRFU Policy on Centrally Contracted Players availability per D Nucifora;
4. Dr. Phil's capacity (and desire) to play in the centre, particularly covering for BO'D or Darce both of whom suffered long-term injuries.

Ruckedtobits
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Just a reminder of the post from @mildlyinterested covering our Out-half options for this Season. It's far from a two horse race
mildlyinterested wrote: - 25th July 2019

Johnny Sexton(34) - Signed central 2 yr contract in 2019.
Ross Byrne(24) - Signed contract in 2017.
Ciaran Frawley(21) - Signed contract in 2019.
Harry Byrne(20) - Academy Y2
David Hawkshaw(20) - Academy Y2

Johnny Sexton returns again fresh off signing another 2 year central contract with the IRFU, he will be absent during the World Cup, Leinster will hope he returns in form and fully fit. Ross Byrne has proven to be a safe pair of hands in Sextons absence and while he is training with the irish squad at the moment he looks unlikely to travel to the world cup at this stage. Ciaran Frawley moves into the senior squad this season, the versatile back will be aiming to nail down the 3rd choice outhalf position in the squad. His competition for that position will come from academy player Harry Byrne, who missed the junior world cup due to injury but was a star performer during the 6 nations. Finally fellow academy player David Hawkshaw will miss the 1st half of the season with injury, the outhalf/inside centre suffered a serious knee injury for the irish u20's in the 6 nations. Upon his return it will be interesting to see what position he plays.

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Oldschool
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Oldschool »

2018 and before JS.
2019 and currently RB.
Trend JS downwards.
Trend RB upwards.
That's life.
The Future.
Who knew 10 years ago
Who knows now.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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Serb
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Serb »

Xanthippe wrote:Rugby supporters can be a funny bunch - over on Munsterfans a young player has one good game and is immediately touted as the saviour of Irish rugby whereas on here we seem to look for reasons to drag lads down and dismiss their achievements.
Not a fair comparison. The difference for Munster is it’s been close to a decade since they’ve produced a player of any genuine quality. They have a couple now in the form of Casey and Wycherly but it’s not surprising they would get hyped by anybody when there’s been nobody of note since 2009.

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Oldschool
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Oldschool »

Serb wrote:
Xanthippe wrote:Rugby supporters can be a funny bunch - over on Munsterfans a young player has one good game and is immediately touted as the saviour of Irish rugby whereas on here we seem to look for reasons to drag lads down and dismiss their achievements.
Not a fair comparison. The difference for Munster is it’s been close to a decade since they’ve produced a player of any genuine quality. They have a couple now in the form of Casey and Wycherly but it’s not surprising they would get hyped by anybody when there’s been nobody of note since 2009.
Think it is a fair comparison.
They were doing it long before 2009.
Last edited by Oldschool on October 30th, 2019, 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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the spoofer
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Re: JS v RB

Post by the spoofer »

I've yet to see anything from Joey Carbery that makes me think that he is our long term 10 in green. Injury and mistake prone, he just never controls a game. He has fabulous individual skills but that's not what it takes to play international 10.

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Oldschool
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Oldschool »

the spoofer wrote:I've yet to see anything from Joey Carbery that makes me think that he is our long term 10 in green. Injury and mistake prone, he just never controls a game. He has fabulous individual skills but that's not what it takes to play international 10.
Unlikely to be available for the first two rounds of Munster's HCC.
Knee injury picked up during warmup games (Thought it was his ankle)
Priority is to have him available for the 6Ns.
RB and JC - Hughie Green might be calling shortly.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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johng
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Re: JS v RB

Post by johng »

Lots of people won't even remember Paula yates never mind her da.

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Logorrhea
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Logorrhea »

wixfjord wrote:Not really sure what you’re saying here?
I just agree with Xans premise (not that she was suggesting it herself) that a large number of Leinster fans are still waiting for Leinster's future number 10 to materialise. In general "we" aren't convinced by Ross Byrne because he isn't really a threat with ball in hand. Look at the hype over Carberry. He hasn't anywhere near the compete game that Byrne has, but because he has a step and a little more pace he's the messiah.
Last edited by Logorrhea on October 30th, 2019, 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hornet
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Re: JS v RB

Post by Hornet »

johng wrote:Lots of people won't even remember Paula yates never mind her da.
Jess, (Not her real Dad) always reminded me of Terry Gilliam playing the Organ naked in Monty Python weirdly enough!!! and Hughie Green (Her real Dad) reminded me of a night on the creme de menthe, and the inevitable comeback! :oops:
"The one thing we learn from History, is that we never learn from History".

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