Glasgow vs Leinster 30/11/2019

[Oldschool]

Reckon talk about Cronin retiring should be postponed until next season.
Ditto Healy BTW

[curates_egg]

I’m a little of both column A and column B in this discussion, so I said I’d weigh in!!!
I’ll make no bones about it, I’m a huge Cronin fan, and there does seem to be a lot of “put him out to pasture” type discussion across the forum with the emergence of Kelleher which I do find a bit mad...Cronin was one of our stand out players last season and has a lot to offer still and I’d agree Kelleher looks good but imo slightly untested BUT I also agree that he’s the man in possession of the jersey, has played really well and has huge potential so when Cronin is fit I think it’s up to him to get the jersey back as I think Kelleher has done enough to hold it and rightly so

Just my two cents if even makes sense

I'm actually not in a column: whoever is fit and playing best should start. Until Saturday, Kelleher was building up quite a case, even though Cronin had such a strong season last season.

All I was really interested in finding out was if anyone else also thought Kelleher struggled with his role in both the lineout and the scrum in Lyon? It seemed like it at the game, but maybe it was different on telly.
He's still very young, and I suspect there was plenty of pressure and skulduggery being applied in the scrum. So, even if it's true, it will have been a great lesson early in his career.

One way or another, I very much hope Cronin is back fit and firing as soon as possible. I think having both of them in the 23 would give us a stronger matchday squad than last season.

[wixfjord]

If Cronin finds his form from last year he's still our #1 number two. Kelleher has been excellent and a huge boost to our hooker stocks but Cronin is a step above imo.

Some boost to be able to bring Kelleher in off the bench though.

I also think Tracy has been good in the last few games he has played in fairness. Will never have the dynamism of the other two but has been solid in throwing and strong in the carry.

[UAEguy]

If Cronin finds his form from last year he's still our #1 number two. Kelleher has been excellent and a huge boost to our hooker stocks but Cronin is a step above imo.

Some boost to be able to bring Kelleher in off the bench though.

I also think Tracy has been good in the last few games he has played in fairness. Will never have the dynamism of the other two but has been solid in throwing and strong in the carry.

He isnt though, we appear to have not learnt our lessons from Japan and are falling into the same trap as a result.

[jimbobjoe]

I think there'll be a good degree of managing minutes for Kelleher to avoid burnout in his opening couple of seasons - despite looking so ready he's still very young, especially for a front row. Tracy and Byrne still have plenty to offer and will be needed to fill gaps and step up in times of injury. If all were fit, I'd split the minutes across the season between the four of them to 40-30-20-10 (%) in the order of Cronin, Kelleher, Tracy, Byrne. Cronin and Kelleher both getting starts in the bigger games. Form and fitness will dictate who pays in any knockouts or crucial league/pool games. Best case scenario stuff I know, but i wouldn't be surpised to see the 2 shirt split along those lines this season at least.

[OTT]

I thought our lineout went generally ok on Saturday we blew one big one in attack that looked like a bad throw, then there was one where we didn't even get anyone up for it, the throw looked decent it ended up going over the back. I think because we blew an important one/try scoring one it is magnifying the issue but that is no bad thing I am sure we want to be perfect and those big moments effect games momentum so lets get them right. On Kelleher specifically it was only the Edinburgh match at home where I thought he had a bad day at the office with regards to the lineout, there were 4 or 5 in that first half where it looked like it was on him, he did turn it around in the second half. So out of 7 or 8 starts he has had one bad day and one questionable one? If he keeps up those type of percentages I willl be happy.


The scrum is a funny one because who actually knows what is going on. It looked like the ref had decided Furlong was in trouble most of the time, it looked to me like they were not getting the shove on so they infringed and got cheap penalties but I am biased to be fair I didn't think we were getting pinged because of Kelleher at best it was a collective thing.

I have not read anything really about people wanting Cronin put out to pasture (that has been saved for the 2018 WPOTY for some reason) to be fair but the thought of a Cronin/Kelleher or Kelleher/Cronin combo does excite me hopefully we get back to the impact of Cronin/Strauss in their heyday.

[wixfjord]

If Cronin finds his form from last year he's still our #1 number two. Kelleher has been excellent and a huge boost to our hooker stocks but Cronin is a step above imo.

Some boost to be able to bring Kelleher in off the bench though.

I also think Tracy has been good in the last few games he has played in fairness. Will never have the dynamism of the other two but has been solid in throwing and strong in the carry.

He isnt though, we appear to have not learnt our lessons from Japan and are falling into the same trap as a result.

Isn't what?

What lessons exactly did we learn about Sean Cronin in Japan that can be applied to Leinster?

[the spoofer]

I thought our lineout went generally ok on Saturday we blew one big one in attack that looked like a bad throw, then there was one where we didn't even get anyone up for it, the throw looked decent it ended up going over the back. I think because we blew an important one/try scoring one it is magnifying the issue but that is no bad thing I am sure we want to be perfect and those big moments effect games momentum so lets get them right. On Kelleher specifically it was only the Edinburgh match at home where I thought he had a bad day at the office with regards to the lineout, there were 4 or 5 in that first half where it looked like it was on him, he did turn it around in the second half. So out of 7 or 8 starts he has had one bad day and one questionable one? If he keeps up those type of percentages I willl be happy.


The scrum is a funny one because who actually knows what is going on. It looked like the ref had decided Furlong was in trouble most of the time, it looked to me like they were not getting the shove on so they infringed and got cheap penalties but I am biased to be fair I didn't think we were getting pinged because of Kelleher at best it was a collective thing.

I have not read anything really about people wanting Cronin put out to pasture (that has been saved for the 2018 WPOTY for some reason) to be fair but the thought of a Cronin/Kelleher or Kelleher/Cronin combo does excite me hopefully we get back to the impact of Cronin/Strauss in their heyday.

Two of the scrums that we were in trouble in were because the ref got caught by what I call the two step shuffle. It's a standard French tactic and they will try it in most games to see is the ref clued in. All back 5 of the scrum take two steps left and then the drive is fully focussed on the tight head. It's really effective when you don't get pulled on it and makes it look like the TH is in trouble.

Furlong did get beasted in one scrum where it looked like there was a dip in concentration by the pack.

[Dave Cahill]

Ironically, our scrum woes - such as they were and I think they've been overstated - disappeared when Chaume came on. When you think of the damage he did in 12/13 when he was the primary reason Clermont won that game in the Aviva, I was bricking it slightly when he appeared, but the lads were wise to his tricks this time around

[Flash Gordon]

If Cronin finds his form from last year he's still our #1 number two. Kelleher has been excellent and a huge boost to our hooker stocks but Cronin is a step above imo.

Some boost to be able to bring Kelleher in off the bench though.

I also think Tracy has been good in the last few games he has played in fairness. Will never have the dynamism of the other two but has been solid in throwing and strong in the carry.

He isnt though, we appear to have not learnt our lessons from Japan and are falling into the same trap as a result.

Isn't what?

What lessons exactly did we learn about Sean Cronin in Japan that can be applied to Leinster?

Agree, not sure what that means. Leinster's objective this year is to win the Champions Cup and the Pro 14, that's it. If Cronin, Kelleher or anyone else can help that objective then they play, if they can't they don't. A 4 year world cup cycle and building for that is a completely different kettle of fish.

[Twist]

Munster not starting any front liners against Edinburgh. I expect we'll do the same given the schedule

[LeinsterLeader]

5. Hugo Keenan (10)
14. Adam Byrne (55)
13. Jimmy O’Brien (12)
12. Conor O’Brien (19)
11. Cian Kelleher (9)
10. Ross Byrne (78)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (78)
1. Peter Dooley (67)
2. James Tracy (100)
3. Michael Bent (131)
4. Ross Molony (88) CAPTAIN
5. Devin Toner (238)
6. Josh Murphy (27)
7. Will Connors (9)
8. Caelan Doris (22)

16. Bryan Byrne (43)
17. Ed Byrne (47)
18. Jack Aungier (1)
19. Oisín Dowling (4)
20. Scott Penny (9)
21. Hugh O’Sullivan (17)
22. Ciarán Frawley (16)
23. Fergus McFadden (179)

Referee: Craig Evans (WRU)

[LeinsterLeader]

Young team alright but exciting side.

Glasgow gone with a very experienced team

[wixfjord]

Nice side that with good balance to it.

All Leinster produced bar JGP.

Not sure it's enough to win in Glasgow but will be very interesting to see how they go.

Particularly interested in seeing how that centre partnership goes, good chance for COB.

[wixfjord]

1. Oli Kebble (39)
2. George Turner (36)
3. D’arcy Rae (68)
4. Tim Swinson (131)
5. Jonny Gray (103)
6. Rob Harley (219)
7. Chris Fusaro (172)
8. Ryan Wilson (C) (157)

9. Ali Price (79)
10. Pete Horne (162)
11. Niko Matawalu (117)
12. Sam Johnson (55)
13. Huw Jones (26)
14. Tommy Seymour (135)
15. Ruaridh Jackson (156)

16. Grant Stewart (28)
17. Aki Seiuli (0)
18. Adam Nicol (13)
19. Kiran McDonald (23)
20. Adam Ashe (72)
21. Nick Frisby (18)
22. Stafford McDowall (17)
23. Kyle Steyn (17)

[Dave Cahill]

s'gonna be tough

[wixfjord]

Jaysus, bit of a mismatch in those two sides! Big test for our lads here, would be happy enough with a LBP and keeping them to 3 tries I think!

On the plus side, some serious speed in our backline that could go well on the plastic pitch.

[Oldschool]

5. Hugo Keenan (10)
14. Adam Byrne (55)
13. Jimmy O’Brien (12)
12. Conor O’Brien (19)
11. Cian Kelleher (9)
10. Ross Byrne (78)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (78)
1. Peter Dooley (67)
2. James Tracy (100)
3. Michael Bent (131)
4. Ross Molony (88) CAPTAIN
5. Devin Toner (238)
6. Josh Murphy (27)
7. Will Connors (9)
8. Caelan Doris (22)

16. Bryan Byrne (43)
17. Ed Byrne (47)
18. Jack Aungier (1)
19. Oisín Dowling (4)
20. Scott Penny (9)
21. Hugh O’Sullivan (17)
22. Ciarán Frawley (16)
23. Fergus McFadden (179)

Referee: Craig Evans (WRU)

About half of the squad have played HCC rugby but it's a little light on experience.
Never mind a win any kind of BP would be a good result.
4-1 loss or better would do nicely.

[alanair]

mmm... Men against Boys ( Devin however doubles the average age

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't think the teams are that mismatched tbh. Our pack is very good and so are the half backs, that should mean that we're very competitive. COB might be rusty but if he isn't then he'll be a weapon. Good to see Adam back and hopefully Keenan can continue his good form.

I wish our bench was a bit stronger though, not sure if we'll be able to perform for the full 80.

Anyone know what's up with ROL?