Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

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OTT
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by OTT »

backrower8 wrote:Too much romanticism posing as relief around Osborne’s performance. He survived as opposed to doing well. And fair play to him for that as it was no mean feat given his lack of big time experience.

Long term however, he is always going to be a big liability as a defender as was shown last night. He is a smaller overall package than Stringer and without his pass. McCarthy would be a better #3 for us than the #3 he looks set to be in Munster. Osborne, HOS and Patterson all look sub-par options - with or without AIL experience.

As for the hysteria towards Toland here, people need to get a grip. He is not bad at all and better than many. I don’t pick up a massive bias that spoils my viewing. I didn’t agree with his pick for MOTM. Munster’s JOD was my pick but Ross Byrne or Will Connors were also more worthy of MOTM than Doris (who was good but turned over twice after picking from scrum base - albeit once after Toland named him as MOTM.

I expected Porter to do better against Killer who has improved in this core skill from a few years ago. Still, for all Porter’s power I expected more. Does Toner always pack down on the LH side when playing with Fardy?

As for Fardy, I questioned Josh Murphy’s departure instead of the older man (by 11 years!) who then proves me wrong with a last minute turnover!

Great result.

As one eyed a post as one has come to expect. You have moved the analysis from Munster vs Leinster to Leinster players who don’t come from a certain school vs players who do come from a certain school.

Byrne, McCarthy and Deegan were my Top performers :roll:
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mildlyinterested
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by mildlyinterested »

backrower8 wrote:Too much romanticism posing as relief around Osborne’s performance. He survived as opposed to doing well. And fair play to him for that as it was no mean feat given his lack of big time experience.

Long term however, he is always going to be a big liability as a defender as was shown last night. He is a smaller overall package than Stringer and without his pass. McCarthy would be a better #3 for us than the #3 he looks set to be in Munster. Osborne, HOS and Patterson all look sub-par options - with or without AIL experience.

As for the hysteria towards Toland here, people need to get a grip. He is not bad at all and better than many. I don’t pick up a massive bias that spoils my viewing. I didn’t agree with his pick for MOTM. Munster’s JOD was my pick but Ross Byrne or Will Connors were also more worthy of MOTM than Doris (who was good but turned over twice after picking from scrum base - albeit once after Toland named him as MOTM.

I expected Porter to do better against Killer who has improved in this core skill from a few years ago. Still, for all Porter’s power I expected more. Does Toner always pack down on the LH side when playing with Fardy?

As for Fardy, I questioned Josh Murphy’s departure instead of the older man (by 11 years!) who then proves me wrong with a last minute turnover!

Great result.
McCarthy decided he'd rather play for Munster than Leinster. Otherwise he'd be 3rd choice here.

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Oldschool
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by Oldschool »

Billed as an unofficial trial for Ireland.
Ulster v Connacht doesn't count of course????
Who were the winners and losers.
Frank Murphy won't be getting a call up any time soon to the international ref panel.
JOD is in a rich vein of form playing better than POM so he's a shoe in.
Killer killed Porter at scrum time.
Wycherley, while a bit small for a SR showed up prominently, justifying the hype.
In the backs it was good to see Carberry back and pushing Sexton hard, JJ didn't do his Ireland bench chances any harm either.
The conditions didn't really help any of the other backs.
So there you have it.
Jaysus lads, was the irony of Munster only players being mentioned not lost on you.
Christ but there's a serious lack of humour on this board.
Enjoy the rest of the break.
Last edited by Oldschool on December 29th, 2019, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ronk
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by ronk »

Osbourne was meant to come on late for a run. Instead he made in a start for the biggest away match of the Pro14 (by attendance) in a hostile environment. He was targeted but stood up ok. It wasn't a perfect performance but his opposite number had a nightmare. Took all the pace out of the game with slow box kick setups and some really poor kicking into the wind.

He did a lot of things right and should be happy with his performance having been thrown in at the deep end.

His passing was good in tough conditions and we were able to use multiple targets. We were taxing Munster on the outside of their defence and he played his part.

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ronk
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by ronk »

Oldschool wrote:Billed as an unofficial trial for Ireland.
Ulster v Connacht doesn't count of course????
Who were the winners and losers.
Frank Murphy won't be getting a call up any time soon to the international ref panel.
JOD is in a rich vein of form playing better than POM so he's a shoe in.
Killer killed Porter at scrum time.
Wycherley, while a bit small for a SR showed up prominently, justifying the hype.
In the backs it was good to see Carberry back and pushing Sexton hard, JJ didn't do his Ireland bench chances any harm either.
The conditions didn't really help any of the other backs.
So there you have it.
Fewer guys fighting for international places in that game.
Murphy could have been worse.
POM wont stand aside easily.
I'll need the replay to confirm scrums but thought it was evenly matched.
Wycherly wasnt in the top 2 locks
Carbery was poor, but it was his first game back. He threw a wild miss pass and killed a prominant attack. He kicked for the corner a few times but Scannell had a really good one. Munster were kicking away turnover ball with a huge wind behind them, it was easy to pin us back. He took space a few times jinking but not achieving anything. He had a chance for a break off a loop move where he wasnt first receiver but he was caught. He didnt actually do much with lots of possession.
I thought Keenan did well.

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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by wixfjord »

Oldschool wrote: In the backs it was good to see Carberry back and pushing Sexton hard, JJ didn't do his Ireland bench chances any harm either.
In what way did Carbery 'push Sexton hard' last night? :lol:

JJ hasn't a hope of making an Irish squad, never mind a bench. Ross Byrne was by far the most impressive 10 on the pitch last night.

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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by carlow man »

Carbery will never start ahead of sexton if Johnny is fit. Carbery is a better 15 than a 10 but larmour is now ahead of him for the Irish full back spot barring his form falling off a cliff. Schmidt forced him to move and so far it hasn't paid off in terms of him being the Irish number 10. Byrnes game has improved hugely and he has benefitted by carbery not being here anymore. Carbery has become injury prone and the gap between him and the other 10's looking to back up Sexton has narrowed to the point where theres not much between them individually but they are still a long way behind Johnny.

OTT
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by OTT »

ronk wrote: I'll need the replay to confirm scrums but thought it was evenly matched.

Think there were two scrum penalties and one free kick against us. He gave the free kick for early push (I think), a penalty in the second half for Ed Byrne going down after losing a wrestle with Archer and a penalty for the scrum being unstable before the ball was put in?? (Is that not a reset?).

I agree with you I thought the scrum was pretty even but they seemed to be the only side to get any reward, I don’t think we got one free kick/penalty? There seemed to be a preemptive tactic from Munster to congratulate Killer at every scrum, there was one of the early ones where him and Porter ended up in a heap and it was reset but Munster celebrated like he had won the match winning penalty. Maybe Frank bought into the pashun.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

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heno
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by heno »

Xanthippe wrote:
cormac wrote:That's our 15th win in a row with our last defeat being in the Champions Cup Final against Saracens last May. Pretty sure that equals our best ever winning run from the 01/02 season when we won our first 15 games of that season.
It does - however our best ‘unbeaten’ run is 20 (18 wins and 2 draws) games in the 11/12 season
Also, the 01/02 and 11/12 runs were within one season whereas the current run of 15, if compared to them, is actually only 13 this season
Whats our longest run of wins as opposed to wins and draws?

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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by fourthirtythree »

Scrums were even and steady when Murphy was on Kilcoyne's side. Every time he wasn't they were a mess. As usual.

JOD seems to be considered to have had a great game. He tackled well and worked hard, carried a lot to no effect. Gave away two stupid and costly penaltied at lineouts. I don't think Peter is quaking in his boots from that performance.

Looking at the stats you'd have to be disappointed at the number of knock ons and turnovers we conceded and thr fact thst they had the larger percentage of territory and possession points to our inability to clear our lines for 20 minutes . One number that really stands out is the missed tackles from their centers. Scannel was 6 made, 4 missed. Arnold 10 made 4 missed. Scannell wiill not be troubling an Ireland squad place either.
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by Logorrhea »

wixfjord wrote:No issues with Flannery. He gives good insight and is nowhere near the hysterics level of Toland.
Yeah, I'd be a fan of his. Like him on the podcast and enjoy listening to him on TV too. Hes obviously got Munster connections but tries hard to park them when he needs to. I think hes one of the best at the moment.

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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by Dave Cahill »

DOC is excellent too - his diary column in the London times during his final season as a pro was brilliant reading
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wixfjord
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by wixfjord »

Good stats from Ross Byrne last night. 12 runs, 19 metres, 1 clean break and 5 defenders beaten. I know a lot of that came from one big break but fair play it's a part of his game that has really improved.

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ronk
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by ronk »

OTT wrote:
ronk wrote: I'll need the replay to confirm scrums but thought it was evenly matched.

Think there were two scrum penalties and one free kick against us. He gave the free kick for early push (I think), a penalty in the second half for Ed Byrne going down after losing a wrestle with Archer and a penalty for the scrum being unstable before the ball was put in?? (Is that not a reset?).

I agree with you I thought the scrum was pretty even but they seemed to be the only side to get any reward, I don’t think we got one free kick/penalty? There seemed to be a preemptive tactic from Munster to congratulate Killer at every scrum, there was one of the early ones where him and Porter ended up in a heap and it was reset but Munster celebrated like he had won the match winning penalty. Maybe Frank bought into the pashun.
A repeat early push can be a penalty. It was going sideways so usually both teams are pushing early.

Archer bound on Byrne's elbow and dragged him down. 100% should have been called against Archer. Nothing Byrne could do.

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ronk
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by ronk »

wixfjord wrote:Good stats from Ross Byrne last night. 12 runs, 19 metres, 1 clean break and 5 defenders beaten. I know a lot of that came from one big break but fair play it's a part of his game that has really improved.
Bounced a tackler too

Ruckedtobits
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by Ruckedtobits »

The intensity and skill level of this game were epitomised by the 4 min and 57 secs which contained the 42 phases (40 of ours, 2 of Munster) between Ross Byrne's restart from 6-13 until Andrew Porter knocked on 8 metres from the Munster line.

By my count the ball was handled 90 times by Leinster players during those 40 phases. There were a couple of "slow releases", a couple of neck-roll tackles, a few off-sides, at least one forward pass and a few "take-outs" beyond the ruck. But what intensity of tackling, what accuracy of handling, what quality of presentation, what levels of fitness from both teams.

The skill levels of all 15 Leinster players who handled during these 40 phases, juxtaposed with the tackling of the Munster players who completed tackles augers well for the future of Irish rugby for the next 3-5 years.

During those 40 phases, Osborne demonstrated just why he is a genuine prospect at scrum-half. He was in position at the vast majority of rucks to move the ball right or left. He made two half-breaks against a very disciplined Munster defensive line and he conjured up one or two decisions as to who to pass to, a static adjacent player or one in motion slightly wider, with an expertise which Faf de Klerk would have admired.

Yes, he is small and will always have to perfectly prepare to be able to make defensive tackles against players out-weighting him by 30kg and more. But the primary task of a Leinster scrum-half for the present is "to get to the breakdown" and then be capable of moving the ball left or right, off the ground and at speed. He executed all three duties during these 40 phases and it gave Ross Byrne the capacity to direct his team forward to a position where they had earned the opportunity to put this game beyond doubt.

Had they scored from this passage of play, in the manner in which they set it up, would have deeply sown seeds of doubt into the Munster defence as to their capacity to keep Leinster at bay from anywhere in the pitch - remembering that the 40 phases started with full-back Keenan collecting Scannell's 50m clearance on his own 10m line.

However, Leinster didn't score on that occasion and the credit for Porter's knock-on should accrue to the Munster defensive effort. Their unwillingness to concede anything, in the face of that 40-phase onslaught, emphasises the importance of this derby to every participant, including the Officials.

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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by Xanthippe »

heno wrote:
Xanthippe wrote:
cormac wrote:That's our 15th win in a row with our last defeat being in the Champions Cup Final against Saracens last May. Pretty sure that equals our best ever winning run from the 01/02 season when we won our first 15 games of that season.
It does - however our best ‘unbeaten’ run is 20 (18 wins and 2 draws) games in the 11/12 season
Also, the 01/02 and 11/12 runs were within one season whereas the current run of 15, if compared to them, is actually only 13 this season
Whats our longest run of wins as opposed to wins and draws?

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In one season it’s the 15 games in 01/02 mentioned by Cormac and which has now been ‘equalled’ through the final two games of last season and the 13 games this season
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by hugonaut »

wixfjord wrote:Good stats from Ross Byrne last night. 12 runs, 19 metres, 1 clean break and 5 defenders beaten. I know a lot of that came from one big break but fair play it's a part of his game that has really improved.
Would have been my Man of the Match. I didn't watch the game live and saw it this morning [knowing the result] and he stood out for me. Very effective game in all respects - passing, tackling, kicking, running, directing, you name it. No experience inside, outside or behind him, so there was a lot of weight resting on his shoulders.

Not usually something that you'd look for in an outhalf, but with his height [he's in the 191-193cm bracket] and build there's the potential to put on a good bit more upper body mass and become a more destructive defender. There's no doubting the traffic that comes down the No10 channel, and being a hitter like Sexton and Farrell does more than round out your game defensively, it adds a lot to your authority on the pitch.

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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by artaneboy »

Oldschool wrote:Billed as an unofficial trial for Ireland.
Ulster v Connacht doesn't count of course????
Who were the winners and losers.
Frank Murphy won't be getting a call up any time soon to the international ref panel.
JOD is in a rich vein of form playing better than POM so he's a shoe in.
Killer killed Porter at scrum time.
Wycherley, while a bit small for a SR showed up prominently, justifying the hype.
In the backs it was good to see Carberry back and pushing Sexton hard, JJ didn't do his Ireland bench chances any harm either.
The conditions didn't really help any of the other backs.
So there you have it.
Jaysus lads, was the irony of Munster only players being mentioned not lost on you.
Christ but there's a serious lack of humour on this board.
Enjoy the rest of the break.
Yep... :-)



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Twist
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Re: Munster Away, Saturday Dec 28, 18:00, Eir Sports 1

Post by Twist »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
johng wrote:Tolland. The ref. Conor morris. The munster fans. Lasd. We won. Why are we focusing on negatives? (Question was for my friends)
Because we're boringly good :lol:
Maybe Im in the minority here but Im not bored in the least!

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