Leinster v Salarysins

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domhnallj
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by domhnallj »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53747821

Just re-visiting the Goode staying/going issue. BBC reporting he has signed up for Sarries but also to play in Japan next season. Also says (and perhaps more interestingly for us) that he will leave at the end of the current domestic championship season. Does that mean he will be gone for the European games or not? Apart from the eat-cake/have-cake nature of his contract, it isn't exactly clear to me.
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by wixfjord »

No I believe Goode is avail buy Kruis isn't.

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LeinsterLeader
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Strong pack for Saracens tomorrow. Vunipola x 2, Itoje, George all the heavy hitters are in there. Goode at 10 is an interesting one. Interesting to see how they go.

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cormac
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by cormac »

6-6 at HT. Arm wrestle in poor conditions. Bristol seeing some joy at maul and scrum but their kicking game appears to have been coached by Matt O'Connor.

Saracens still excellent in defence and kick-chase and are winning the battle on the ground.
Last edited by cormac on August 15th, 2020, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wixfjord
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by wixfjord »

Yep they're still looking pretty oppressive and suffocating in defence.

Mako having a good bit of trouble at the scrum.

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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by wixfjord »

Interesting game. Neither side anywhere near their best in poor conditions.

Sarries were their usual selves in defence and controlled the aerial battle totally. Even missing some big players they can rely on those parts of their game to function.

Not much going on in offence from them in terms of shape.

Without invoking the spirit of that rabid Rob Kearney fan boy who posts here, I do wonder if we might see him play a role in this game. Sarries ability to use the boot as a weapon is really important to them. It would be a defensive call from us but could also blunt one of their big threats.

They looked a lot less comfortable at set-piece though. Scrum was messy. Mako was all over the place and lineout didn't look as imperious as usual. They're relying a lot on Itoje at lineout now and Kruis must be a big loss.

Their maul was fairly toothless too and Bristol try came from an attacking maul.

The likes of Billy V and Itoje put a ton of pressure on the kicker. Blocked down 2-3.

Bristol never really got into any rhythm due to errors and found it hard to get Sarries moving backwards.

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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by riocard911 »

Sarries defensive maul was very poor. They were lucky the Bristol line out was so bad; it let them back into the game on numerous occasions. Segun at 11 looks dangerous; had a good game bar one mistake. The yellow card for Jamie George for coming in at the side and the simultaneous penalty try were funny. It was the highlight of what was essentially a fairly boring slugfest.

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cormac
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by cormac »

What was most noticeable for me was Saracens' inability to convert nearly half-a-dozen 5m scrums or 5m lineouts into tries. Apart from one right at the death they never really looked like scoring tries from them. Also clear was the gap between Wigglesworth's kicking game and that of Aled Davies when he replaced him.

Bristol also robbed of a try thanks to some really officious reffing.

Saracens will still be a very tough nut to crack. Conditions helped them in that regard today as there was no pace to the game but I wouldn't expect much difference in drier conditions.
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Oldschool
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by Oldschool »

wixfjord wrote:
August 15th, 2020, 6:26 pm
Interesting game. Neither side anywhere near their best in poor conditions.

Sarries were their usual selves in defence and controlled the aerial battle totally. Even missing some big players they can rely on those parts of their game to function.

Not much going on in offence from them in terms of shape.

Without invoking the spirit of that rabid Rob Kearney fan boy who posts here, I do wonder if we might see him play a role in this game. Sarries ability to use the boot as a weapon is really important to them. It would be a defensive call from us but could also blunt one of their big threats.

They looked a lot less comfortable at set-piece though. Scrum was messy. Mako was all over the place and lineout didn't look as imperious as usual. They're relying a lot on Itoje at lineout now and Kruis must be a big loss.

Their maul was fairly toothless too and Bristol try came from an attacking maul.

The likes of Billy V and Itoje put a ton of pressure on the kicker. Blocked down 2-3.

Bristol never really got into any rhythm due to errors and found it hard to get Sarries moving backwards.
Watching the Northampton v Leinster and England v Ireland games again one thing that sticks out is England's first try.
Northampton tried something similar against us in the HCC (in FGs) and it nearly came off.
Wouldn't have happened in Rob's day.
Rob, like Dempsey before him, has incredible positional sense.

Rhetorical question - Are Saracens likely to try the same tactic?
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Although it was effectively the first game of the season, without any warm-ups, the snail-like service of Wigglesworth was very evident. Conversely, the pace and accuracy of Sarries mid-field defence was very effective. However, Bristol made little or no attempt to make skip / lob passes to their wingers despite the fact that Sarries wingers had 'swarmed in' to assist their mid-field defence, leaving acrws of space out wide.

Sarries line-out relies almost totally on Itoje and George and Byrne, the respective hookers, had their relatively slow, lobbed throws to No 4 picked off fairly easily.

Sarries scrum was pretty inept and Afoa enjoyed a fairly easy afternoon against Maku V, but despite the usual one-eyed BT commentary, it seemed that the Bristol LHP Woolmore did a real job on Koch at THP for Sarries. Sarries scrum under pressure ensures Billy V has to travel laterally when he picks from No 8. Bristol back-row picked him off on several occasions as he headed across the pitch.

Finally, Sarries didn't bother rucking. They competed to snaffle turnovers at tackles -- Itoje the master - but no bodies competing against rucking opponents and a couple of times Bristol forwards picked and went through the middle. Certainly, the absence of Sarries rucking forwards compresses the offside line and allows more attempts to blockdown the SH kicks, but it does create a 'soft centre' which can be attacked.

Leo, Lancaster & McBryde will have learned a bit from this display. But McCall will improve a fair bit of what Sarries offered within the next month.

Little bits to ponder on, but nothing to cause sleepless nights.

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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by wixfjord »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
August 15th, 2020, 7:47 pm

Finally, Sarries didn't bother rucking. They competed to snaffle turnovers at tackles -- Itoje the master - but no bodies competing against rucking opponents and a couple of times Bristol forwards picked and went through the middle. Certainly, the absence of Sarries rucking forwards compresses the offside line and allows more attempts to blockdown the SH kicks, but it does create a 'soft centre' which can be attacked.

Noticed that as well.
Doris would make hay if they did that against us.
He's so good at picking and driving straight through that space.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I think their defensive maul suffered because they competed in the lineout by jumping across it so they weren't in any position to stop it when the Bristol player landed. England and Saracens have both been doing that for about two years now and it's really frustrating that refs aren't picking up on it because it's such an obvious thing to see a player appearing in front of the jumper from the other team. Itoje is particularly guilty of it, as he is with lying over a tackled player for far too long without making an effort to move.

Their attacking maul was a bit of a mess too. It was effective but they had backs joining from all sorts of angles that they should have been pinged for.

Bristol failed miserably to try and run around their defence but they swallowed up most of the ball carriers that ran hard around the ten channel too. I think we need to get Ringrose and Henshaw running inside between their centres quite a bit. Having Henshaw line up at 13 a fair bit like he's done in recent times could really suit this.

Their closing down of kickers was phenomenal. Billy V has always been pretty good at it but I think he might have lost some weight and looked really mobile.

Also thought it was interesting that they kept going for the posts. The game meant nothing and presumably the next few matches are all about getting ready to play us, but they wanted points on the board instead of testing their set piece and moves. The scrum obviously struggled but they were doing it before it became a big issue anyway.

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TrapperChamonix
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by TrapperChamonix »

cormac wrote:
August 15th, 2020, 6:35 pm
What was most noticeable for me was Saracens' inability to convert nearly half-a-dozen 5m scrums or 5m lineouts into tries. Apart from one right at the death they never really looked like scoring tries from them. Also clear was the gap between Wigglesworth's kicking game and that of Aled Davies when he replaced him.

Bristol also robbed of a try thanks to some really officious reffing.

Saracens will still be a very tough nut to crack. Conditions helped them in that regard today as there was no pace to the game but I wouldn't expect much difference in drier conditions.
The NZ provincial championship was reffed using a new set of reffing standards. It seemed to favor the defensive team a lot. Are the NH club competitions and (in particular the HCup) adopting these as well? Or do we finish the existing competitions using the old interpertations? How did they ref the Saracens match?
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but are the rules in relation to new players the same for the HEC now as the Pro14? For example can Saracens use the new players they've brought in for our match? Can Ulster use Iam Madigan and Albe matthewson for their QF etc.

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cormac
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by cormac »

TrapperChamonix wrote:
August 17th, 2020, 1:34 pm
cormac wrote:
August 15th, 2020, 6:35 pm
What was most noticeable for me was Saracens' inability to convert nearly half-a-dozen 5m scrums or 5m lineouts into tries. Apart from one right at the death they never really looked like scoring tries from them. Also clear was the gap between Wigglesworth's kicking game and that of Aled Davies when he replaced him.

Bristol also robbed of a try thanks to some really officious reffing.

Saracens will still be a very tough nut to crack. Conditions helped them in that regard today as there was no pace to the game but I wouldn't expect much difference in drier conditions.
The NZ provincial championship was reffed using a new set of reffing standards. It seemed to favor the defensive team a lot. Are the NH club competitions and (in particular the HCup) adopting these as well? Or do we finish the existing competitions using the old interpertations? How did they ref the Saracens match?
Haven't seen any of the SH games but didn't notice any great difference in the Bristol v Saracens game from earlier in the season. Try was disallowed for a very marginal obstruction on Itoje which, to my mind, had zero impact on the try being scored as he wasn't in a position to make a tackle anyway.
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mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by mildlyinterested »

James Ryan at training today...

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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Jaysus lads......... go easy! :shock:

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mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by mildlyinterested »

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FLIP
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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by FLIP »

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/08/18/epc ... ut-stages/
Ahead of next month’s resumption of the 2019/20 Heineken Champions Cup and Challenge Cup season, EPCR can confirm details of player registration for the knockout stages of both tournaments as well as amendments to rules regarding the selection of match day squads.

The 16 clubs which have qualified for the quarter-finals will be required to register their squads on or before Tuesday 1 September and to ensure that clubs are able to select the strongest possible match day squads in the current circumstances, there will be no limit to the number of players they can register.

In order that scrums can always be contested, clubs must ensure that their updated squads include at least 12 players who are suitably trained and experienced in front row positions.

As a number of players have recently changed clubs, it has been decided on an exceptional basis to waive the rule which prohibits players from playing for different clubs in the same competition in the same season.

In other words, a player who has already been selected in a match day squad during the pool stage of this season’s Heineken Champions Cup or Challenge Cup will be eligible to play for his new club in the same competition during the knockout stage provided his registration is approved by EPCR and the relevant union.

In addition, and also on an exceptional basis, there will be no limit to the number of non-European players who can be selected in a match day squad of 23 during the knockout stages of both tournaments.
I wonder who asked for those last 2 rules....
Anyone But New Zealand

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Re: Leinster v Salarysins

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

cormac wrote:
August 17th, 2020, 2:03 pm

Haven't seen any of the SH games but didn't notice any great difference in the Bristol v Saracens game from earlier in the season. Try was disallowed for a very marginal obstruction on Itoje which, to my mind, had zero impact on the try being scored as he wasn't in a position to make a tackle anyway.
that was a great try and should have stood. Itoje didn't really have a chance of making a tackle.
Was reminded of our disallowed try against clermont in the semis a few years ago in Lyon..but..that was correctly ruled out. I was on my way back from getting some drinks in the stadium and missed the block early on in the move....thought we were back in the game then. wasn't until I saw the replay and the ref made the right call that day, in fairness.

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