Leinster v Salarysins

[neiliog93]

Yeah, the new interpretation of the jackal rule makes it almost impossible for the attacking side to go through phases. Ruining the game. All in the name of safety. Kick the ball away, apply pressure, have a few fat lumps who can flop over the ball at the ruck, and you'll win.

[hugonaut]

Yeah, the new interpretation of the jackal rule makes it almost impossible for the attacking side to go through phases. Ruining the game. All in the name of safety. Kick the ball away, apply pressure, have a few fat lumps who can flop over the ball at the ruck, and you'll win.

It can make for an abortion of a game if both sides adopt it - viz. our semi-final against Munster. And it is a pragmatic way to play the game: 'If do right, no can defense.'

[ExiledEdinburgh]

Feeling gutted (used the anger in a fairly aggressive post match 5k) despite their excellent first half as mentioned so much was self inflicted- Johnny’s 2m kickoff- leading to a scrum Where being pinged repeatedly leading to a bonus 3 points to them (Getting back to 2 instead of 5 could have been very different) really smarts.
There’s always ref frustrations non yellow Repeated first half Press in far left corner and the sexton head clash and Swimming maul defence.
What I’m dreading the most Immediately being exiled is Stephen Jones smug face In the times tomorrow and incoming Saracens greatest team of a generation article fwiw I think the’ve emptied the tank today and the monster Racing Pack will bully them home next week

[neiliog93]

They really need to do something about it. If they insist on a stricter implementation of the jackal rule in the name of safety, they might have to start giving a free kick instead of a penalty for the holding on offence in order to disincentivise a lot of kicking and defensive play. You could even add a caveat that teams were only allowed to run or kick from the free-kick to avoid excessive scrums.

[Peg Leg]

Obviously, that was very dissappointing. Just got smashed in the first 40 and completely panicked. Very unlike us. They actually did start to tire towards the end but we made some poor decisons that cost us. Thought Kelleher and Baird showed up well off the bench.

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They were excellent, Baird especially gave us an awful lot. Our bench gave us a lot of pop, but as a team we had waaaaay too much ground to make up on the scoreboard.

Played it like a cricket match

[hugonaut]

They really need to do something about it. If they insist on a stricter implementation of the jackal rule in the name of safety, they might have to start giving a free kick instead of a penalty for the holding on offence in order to disincentivise a lot of kicking and defensive play. You could even add a caveat that teams were only allowed to run or kick from the free-kick to avoid excessive scrums.

I think there's a simpler solution than that - you just allow a mark anywhere on the field. So if you put up a high ball and the guy catches it clean [almost inevitably behind his entire team] he can call a mark and get a freekick whether he's in his own 22, on the halfway line or in the opponent's half.

That would even out the risk/reward. At the moment the odds are stacked on the kicker's side - you can stretch out a ruck [caterpillar] to lessen the chances of being blocked down to practically nil; you can stall in that position for 5-10 seconds to organise the chase; all your players are coming on to the ball [literally every single one of them], so you can compete not to catch it but to bat it backwards ... an option not open to the opposition. Even if you knock it on and give away a scrum, you're likely 15-20m further up the pitch from where you were when you kicked.

Allowing a mark for a clean catch anywhere makes good fullback play more valuable and punishes bad kicking. It more equably balances the risk/reward for the kicking side, who have chosen to kick the ball away in an 'invasion game' [which is what rugby is classed as]. It only expands the extent of something that is already in the laws of the game.

At the moment the box kick is too much of a factor, and it's probably the most tedious thing in rugby. It's not just tedious when Saracens beat us with it, it's tedious when Munster lose to us with it. You don't have to ban it, you just lessen its attractiveness.

The threat of the jackal in other situations might lead to more offloading, which would be a positive thing.

[Blueberry]

Yeah, the new interpretation of the jackal rule makes it almost impossible for the attacking side to go through phases. Ruining the game. All in the name of safety. Kick the ball away, apply pressure, have a few fat lumps who can flop over the ball at the ruck, and you'll win.

+1

New rules are a joke making it incredibly tricky for attacking sides to string together multiple phases which is the fundamental component of powerful and beautiful rugby, we sit through endless dross for those few minutes in a game where we get a perfect multi phase attack - more health and safety nonsense....but it's kind a theme at the moment in wider life.....

Perhaps we should all stick to knitting in our garden shed with PPE on. (No disrespect to any Leinster knitting fans)

[Peg Leg]

Love that we've gone straight to blaming the rules, which are the things that our management team and players have the means to play within. Sarries had a gameplan and ref (which is part of the gameplan) and they executed beautifully, we did not stop them, we did not impose our gameplan on them until the 45 minute or so.

[carlow man]

Agree. We looked well off the pace and seriously nervy. No idea why that happened.

[OTT]

Billy Vunipola 13metres off 12 carries.

Well done to Porridge who did his job superbly today.

Was the only line break they had the try?

[Backplay]

Yep - all other points down to supremacy in the scrum.

[curates_egg]

Yep - all other points down to supremacy in the scrum.

Not true. The first two converted penalties were stupid ruck penalties, and maybe even the third. There wasn’t even a scrum in the first quarter I think.

The scrum was terrible. Embarrassing. The front row seemed to just lie down and accept it. Some of the penalties (at least two) were from illegal, crooked driving by Sarries, but we didn’t even protest. They also seemed to pull back on two engagements, causing our front row to fall. I would need to watch it again but I thought some of the calls were harsh. I couldn’t understand the lack of protest.

But, as bad as it was, it was not the only factor.
We could have gone in at half time 15-6 down if Sexton took one of the two kickable penalties at around 33 minutes.

Also, Luke McGrath put us under a lot of pressure, with poor kicking and ponderous distribution. He also had three absolute shocking passes in that first half. After all the spin about picking form players, it was a poor call by Leo to pick him.

[Blueberry]

Pick holes in everything but we got so badly mauled in the scrum it's pretty irrelevant. Testament to the lads to keep it that close with no scrum.

[curates_egg]

Was Itoje onside for the intercept?

Thought he was offside but I was always going to! Didn’t see a good replay, Luke likes to paw the ball for an age before he passes so maybe he was on. Anyone know for sure? Huge moment.

I thought McGrath had the ball in his hands and fumbled before passing, so Itoje was onside.
I had actually forgotten about that error.
Shocker of a game for him.

[Blueberry]

Love that we've gone straight to blaming the rules, which are the things that our management team and players have the means to play within. Sarries had a gameplan and ref (which is part of the gameplan) and they executed beautifully, we did not stop them, we did not impose our gameplan on them until the 45 minute or so.

Nope not me anyway. Sarries won fair and square but having sat through a stack of games recently I am not liking the new breakdown laws. It's killing multi phase attacking rugby which for me is the best part of the game. Maybe a discussion for another thread but not the reason we lost, but really don't like em.....

[nc6000]

The scrum was terrible. Embarrassing. The front row seemed to just lie down and accept it. Some of the penalties (at least two) were from illegal, crooked driving by Sarries, but we didn’t even protest. They also seemed to pull back on two engagements, causing our front row to fall. I would need to watch it again but I thought some of the calls were harsh. I couldn’t understand the lack of protest.

But, as bad as it was, it was not the only factor.
We could have gone in at half time 15-6 down if Sexton took one of the two kickable penalties at around 33 minutes.

Yeah, one of the penalties was for Porter putting his knee on the ground before the put in. I'm assuming Mako pulled back making him drop his knee. Right in front of the ref too. Another couple of times Porter was in trouble but Doris didn't seem to be helping much and had pretty much broken off the scrum.

We should have definitely kicked one of the earlier penalties rather than going for the line each time and not getting anything. That would have has us back to within 2 points heading into the last 10 mins.

[Wanderers FC]

Billy Vunipola 13metres off 12 carries.

Well done to Porridge who did his job superbly today.

Was the only line break they had the try?

He was largely anonymous today. 7 tackles in 60 minutes. He was anonymous for long periods in his sole responsibility. VDF came on for 20 mins and made 6 also notably nailing Vunipola behind the gainline off one scrum. His linespeed and closing down attackers was noticeably better.

We were also badly beaten on the deck. I don’t remember Connors contesting one turnover all game. That should be his job not solely tackling and standing out in the back line. We’re going to have to look at playing a better jackalling 7 Who would have made us more competitive today. VDF looked better when he came on but I can understand the rationale of playing the bigger player against Saracens.

[Dave Cahill]

Was Itoje onside for the intercept?

Thought he was offside but I was always going to! Didn’t see a good replay, Luke likes to paw the ball for an age before he passes so maybe he was on. Anyone know for sure? Huge moment.

He was onside, Luke scoops the ball back out of the ruck, lets it bobble around between his feet for a bit while he has a cup of tea, then picks it up. But once the ball is out of the ruck, the ruck is over and there is no offside line. When the ball leaves the ruck, Itoje is onside

[leinsterforever]

Any time "good as the All Blacks" is mentioned in an Irish rugby context you can be sure a shitshow is coming down the tracks. A bit too soon for any clear analysis but Saracens couldn't believe their luck. 22-3 after an extraordinary first 40. A team that clicks will have nothing to worry about against that Saracens team. We had to keep it away from the tight 5 and when we had JGP-Sexton-Henrose- we clawed back in but when it went to Byrne-ROL-Ringrose it was going to take a wayward kick and some Larmour magic to get back.

Yeah, I thought they marshalled Ross Byrne easily enough. Would Harry Byrne have asked more questions off the bench?

I thought we could win the game the way it was going before Larmour's try. But not to be.

Lot of question marks over McBryde after that scrum performance. That's just not good enough. You can't give a team like Saracens easy ins like that. Nearly every time they put their minds towards winning a scrum penalty they were able to do it.

[sunshiner1]

Also, Luke McGrath put us under a lot of pressure, with poor kicking and ponderous distribution. He also had three absolute shocking passes in that first half. After all the spin about picking form players, it was a poor call by Leo to pick him.

Agreed. JGP has consistently played way better the last few weeks. McGrath having a shocker wasn't the only reason why we lost but it was a hell of a factor.