mildlyinterested wrote: ↑October 26th, 2020, 6:22 pm
don't see it that way myself, if they head on loan out west i'd consider it extremely unlikely they'd be interested in returning to leinster to battle it out for game time when they have so much guaranteed out west.
has a loan of a leinster player to another province ever benefited leinster?
Yes, but not in the way you mean.
We’ve gotten wages off the books and doing right by those lads builds trust and loyalty with the others. Also it builds karma for when we’ve recruited from Connacht.
Builds karma... right.
As I said if leinster dont intend on offering these players contracts next season then by all means let them go West.. otherwise I wouldn't be in favour of sending them west but thats just my personal view.
All of them making their debut for leinster in the next 2 months can't be ruled out and personally I'd rather see that than them play for Connacht.
Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑October 26th, 2020, 9:24 am
Would it be beneficial for Leinster if Leo offered Connacht six-month loans of Charlie Ryan, Martin Moloney & David Hawkshaw? It's hard to see how these guys are going to get any game time in Leinster in the coming months and equally Connacht look like they could run into real player shortages in these positions as the season progresses.
Connacht certainly seems a Province in which young players get well coached and get opportunities when their form warrants inclusion.
Ryan and Hawkshaw, yes, but we'll definitely need Maloney. We'll have two locks absent with Ireland, and Maloney is the next off the line when Fardy and Toner aren't playing.
Martin Moloney is a backrow, you are thinking of Ross.
Ah,sorry. Brain fart. I think it's a decent suggestion tbh. I don't think they'll see much game time. If it was definitely just a loan, then I'd be good with it.
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
Last time we sent two lads down to Connacht they didn’t find their way back to us. We wanted both back and both went on to become full international’s.
Jonny tight lips wrote: ↑October 26th, 2020, 8:46 pm
Last time we sent two lads down to Connacht they didn’t find their way back to us. We wanted both back and both went on to become full international’s.
Which two lads? The only two players I can remember sending to Connacht on loan were John Cooney and Tom Daly. We never asked for the latter back, and the former was brought back when requested.
Jonny tight lips wrote: ↑October 26th, 2020, 8:46 pm
Last time we sent two lads down to Connacht they didn’t find their way back to us. We wanted both back and both went on to become full international’s.
Which two lads? The only two players I can remember sending to Connacht on loan were John Cooney and Tom Daly. We never asked for the latter back, and the former was brought back when requested.
What was the name of that big South African lad again?
You are right indeed - Quinn Roux moved on loan initially before moving permanently. I don't recall us ever wanting him back though (indeed we were so unconcerned about him, he played against us while on loan).
Jonny tight lips wrote: ↑October 26th, 2020, 8:46 pm
Last time we sent two lads down to Connacht they didn’t find their way back to us. We wanted both back and both went on to become full international’s.
Which two lads? The only two players I can remember sending to Connacht on loan were John Cooney and Tom Daly. We never asked for the latter back, and the former was brought back when requested.
Cooney and Roux went down at the same time and It was widely reported we were unhappy at the time.
No one gave a damn about Roux leaving - no one. We let him go for six months, then another six months, then ran his contract out allowing him to sign for Connacht - we had a bunch of chances to bring him back if we were so unhappy about it, but we obviously weren't, especially as Mick Kearney moved the other way. Cooney is more complicated - a bunch of people reckon he's a great scrum half, another bunch reckon he's m'eh, unfortunately for Cooney the president of the latter group was Joe Schmidt.
On top of which, and pertinent to the position we were originally discussing, Cooney was in the worst position possible for an up and coming player - behind the national team's second and third choice in his position. Nothing guarantees no game time like being in that slot at a province, especially if you're a specialist.
Of the three examples given of potential players to go out on loan Hawkshaw, Ryan and Moloney there are two perspectives, ours and Connachts.
If we lend them Hawkshaw is he going to see much game time, I don't see how he is. Connacht have players at 10 and 12 who they have contracted, who they are backing and who are showing the faith in that backing with their performances. You also have Conor Dean who they have invested in who is the next cab off the rank. Now maybe he will make it and maybe he won't but that is for Connacht to try and work out, parachuting in a guy a year younger for a few months is not how Connacht become better or how they improve their culture imo. Leinster have obviously marked Hawkshaw as someone who they see contributing in this block (injuries permitting), his selection on the bench was a backing, it shows all of us (those who already have him on their radar and those less in the know about the young talent like myself) that he is someone who the coaches have rewarded because of how he has trained. You saw Sheehan at the weekend in his post match interview, this time is incredible for a young guy, their dreams are coming true, sending Hawkshaw on loan now would take him out of an environment he must be thriving in by the fact he was selected in the 23 at the weekend. That would be my perception anyway.
Martin Moloney, is he going to get game time at Connacht? I don't think so, in the short term anyway. He would be going there blind as a filler, a guy to make up the numbers because they have a small squad. So for Connacht they would have an extra man in training, not one of their seven senior backrowers are on the Irish radar. At Leinster he would get the training that has worked so well for others and the chance of game time would be as good as at Connacht with us missing so many backrowers to Ireland (before we get to the obvious injuries).
Charlie Ryan, I can see how a short term deal works for Connacht, he has a good chance of at least benching for them due to their injury profile at lock and with Roux and Dillane around the Irish setup. I guess Leinster would need to decide if they had him pencilled into their plans over the next 6 weeks or so. If not it could make sense for all parties.
So in summary I think Connacht are too good to just blanketly think we could send our academy lads there for guaranteed game time and it appears how we promote our young players in such a well constructed environment is very important for their development. Some loans might make sense but only if it suits all parties.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑October 27th, 2020, 10:27 am
No one gave a damn about Roux leaving - no one. We let him go for six months, then another six months, then ran his contract out allowing him to sign for Connacht - we had a bunch of chances to bring him back if we were so unhappy about it, but we obviously weren't, especially as Mick Kearney moved the other way. Cooney is more complicated - a bunch of people reckon he's a great scrum half, another bunch reckon he's m'eh, unfortunately for Cooney the president of the latter group was Joe Schmidt.
On top of which, and pertinent to the position we were originally discussing, Cooney was in the worst position possible for an up and coming player - behind the national team's second and third choice in his position. Nothing guarantees no game time like being in that slot at a province, especially if you're a specialist.
Leo Cullen complained about the pair the year after they signed as a reason he didn’t like the idea of loaning players to Connacht.
The intention was for the two to come back, leinsters displeasure was widely reported. There are no examples of teams sending players out on loan and coming back the better for it. Either they come back and do nothing or they don’t come back and kick on for the team they went on loan to. It’s almost as ineffective as sending players up to Ulster for game time such as Jordi and Jacks fabulous Irish contribution since migrating north.
