Leinster Squad 20-21

[elephantman]

You do realise this probably means another Leinster player moving north?

More than probably. It’s guaranteed his replacement will be sourced from our wealth of back rows — most likely Deegan as mentioned. Sure, he’s not a like for like replacement, but we can’t really offer them a player exactly in the mould of Coetzee and Deegan’s contract expires this summer along with Penny (who will go south).

Penny to Munster? Is this just speculation or do you know about something happening behind the scenes?

[joooooe]

The player who best fits the mould (McGrath, Moore, Murphy, Cooney, Madigan) for Ulster here is Conan.

[munster#1]

With the likely cost saving measure to include reduction in employees, all four provinces will be forced to look at positions where they are over stocked.

Leinster are likely to lose Toner and Fardy at the end of the season, so I’d be surprised if any other second rows are let go, but backrow and particularly 7 is where I see Leinster as being overstocked, which is why I can see at least 1 7 moving on.

Given the emergence of Doris, and the rejuvenation of Ruddock, I would think that Deegan may be seen as a luxury item.

How many players do you see Leinster losing?

[cormac]

Why will Leinster lose Toner at the end of the season?

[ronk]

With the likely cost saving measure to include reduction in employees, all four provinces will be forced to look at positions where they are over stocked.

Leinster are likely to lose Toner and Fardy at the end of the season, so I’d be surprised if any other second rows are let go, but backrow and particularly 7 is where I see Leinster as being overstocked, which is why I can see at least 1 7 moving on.

Given the emergence of Doris, and the rejuvenation of Ruddock, I would think that Deegan may be seen as a luxury item.

How many players do you see Leinster losing?

If Coetzee is on the table, then de Allende and Snyman become highly likely too.

[Serb]

Penny to Munster? Is this just speculation or do you know about something happening behind the scenes?

It’s all 100% speculation, but I’m convinced it will happen. We are massively overstocked in the back row, I think everyone would agree with that.

We could afford to lose two probably. Penny, Deegan and I think Ruddock are out of contract this summer, so makes sense it’s two of those three.

Ulster now need an 8. We have lots of 8s, all of which are in contention for Ireland places. Makes sense to send one of the two young ones up north — that’s Deegan.

We will be required to offload one more player realistically (“finances”). We probably won’t send two players to Ulster, so Munster are more likely the benefactors. They don’t really need another back row player, but that hasn’t really been a factor in the past. For whatever reason, we only send them promising young players, less of the Jordi Murphys and Jack McGraths, more of the Andrew Conways and Joey Carberys.

Scott Penny fits the precedent for exactly the kind of player who will be presented with a Munster contract come renewal time.

[IanD]

With the likely cost saving measure to include reduction in employees, all four provinces will be forced to look at positions where they are over stocked.

Leinster are likely to lose Toner and Fardy at the end of the season, so I’d be surprised if any other second rows are let go, but backrow and particularly 7 is where I see Leinster as being overstocked, which is why I can see at least 1 7 moving on.

Given the emergence of Doris, and the rejuvenation of Ruddock, I would think that Deegan may be seen as a luxury item.

How many players do you see Leinster losing?

If you put half the effort in becoming/improving as a rugby coach as you do worrying over the Leinster Back Row Munster and Irish Rugby would be in a Wonderful Rugby Time.

For the benefit of Irish Rugby and you always seem happy for Leinster to bear the brunt of benefiting Irish Rugby I suggest the following

As Stander is now starting for Ireland at 6 he should be moved to Ulster. That way POM and Stander can play 6 for their clubs. Ulster need a ball carrier Stander needs to play 6. Win win.

Connor Murray should move to Leinster. It would benefit the Irish team for him to play in Club Finals instead of Semi Finals. Also playing with the incumbent Irish 8, 10 and backup 10 would benefit all concerned.

Jean Klynn should go to Ulster. Frees up second row space for young Wycherley and Beirne. Gives Ulster another ball carrier and a bit of bulk in the second row. Plus he is a friend for CJ.


Obviously this is to benefit Ireland.

[munster#1]

With the likely cost saving measure to include reduction in employees, all four provinces will be forced to look at positions where they are over stocked.

Leinster are likely to lose Toner and Fardy at the end of the season, so I’d be surprised if any other second rows are let go, but backrow and particularly 7 is where I see Leinster as being overstocked, which is why I can see at least 1 7 moving on.

Given the emergence of Doris, and the rejuvenation of Ruddock, I would think that Deegan may be seen as a luxury item.

How many players do you see Leinster losing?

If you put half the effort in becoming/improving as a rugby coach as you do worrying over the Leinster Back Row Munster and Irish Rugby would be in a Wonderful Rugby Time.

For the benefit of Irish Rugby and you always seem happy for Leinster to bear the brunt of benefiting Irish Rugby I suggest the following

As Stander is now starting for Ireland at 6 he should be moved to Ulster. That way POM and Stander can play 6 for their clubs. Ulster need a ball carrier Stander needs to play 6. Win win.

Connor Murray should move to Leinster. It would benefit the Irish team for him to play in Club Finals instead of Semi Finals. Also playing with the incumbent Irish 8, 10 and backup 10 would benefit all concerned.

Jean Klynn should go to Ulster. Frees up second row space for young Wycherley and Beirne. Gives Ulster another ball carrier and a bit of bulk in the second row. Plus he is a friend for CJ.


Obviously this is to benefit Ireland.

The level that I coach at, I seriously doubt I would make a blind bit of difference to Irish rugby.
Might help the economy however, with the amount of pints we drink after a game, which may in turn help Irish rugby I guess.

Leinster are victims of their own success. They have produced a surplus in the backrow, and Ulster will be minus a backrow.
As long as Leinster produce a surplus of quality players, they will invariably lose players each year.

The same principle should be applied to any province, but right now none of the other 3 provinces are at that level.

[munster#1]

Penny to Munster? Is this just speculation or do you know about something happening behind the scenes?

It’s all 100% speculation, but I’m convinced it will happen. We are massively overstocked in the back row, I think everyone would agree with that.

We could afford to lose two probably. Penny, Deegan and I think Ruddock are out of contract this summer, so makes sense it’s two of those three.

Ulster now need an 8. We have lots of 8s, all of which are in contention for Ireland places. Makes sense to send one of the two young ones up north — that’s Deegan.

We will be required to offload one more player realistically (“finances”). We probably won’t send two players to Ulster, so Munster are more likely the benefactors. They don’t really need another back row player, but that hasn’t really been a factor in the past. For whatever reason, we only send them promising young players, less of the Jordi Murphys and Jack McGraths, more of the Andrew Conways and Joey Carberys.

Scott Penny fits the precedent for exactly the kind of player who will be presented with a Munster contract come renewal time.

How would you rate Penny? Do you think he will be international standard?

Could Leinster see him as a better prospect than any of the internationals ahead of him, thus keeping him at the expense of another player?

[fourthirtythree]

Basically Coombes has to move on or Munster need to cut one of O'Mahony or Stander. If Carbery comes back from injury Healy has to go. To Ulster because Ireland will win nothing with an English reject at outhalf.

Needless to say there is an established international blocking the progress of a young scrum half at Munster too. And Kilcoyne and Cronin are blocking the progress of the good Wycherley at loose head (they can keep the lock/six, squad player at best). Also: too many fullbacks at Munster, keep the two they bought in ahead of the one they developed.

Ulster would have no interest in JOD as they already have Jordi. Might as well offer them Tommy O'Donnell.

[neiliog93]

I think Penny has the potential to be world class as an openside. I don't think any of our other back-row prospects (as good as they are) have the potential to be world class, which I would define as mounting a credible challenge to inclusion in a World XV. It sounds odd but I would prefer to lose an established international back-row in the Jordi Murphy mould (in this case, possibly VDF or Ruddock) rather than Penny.

[wixfjord]

Penny is 21 and hasn't started a big game yet. Not sure his showings at senior level so far have illustrated the potential to be 'world class'.

Doris is 22 and is far more accelerated in his progress.

[munster#1]

Basically Coombes has to move on or Munster need to cut one of O'Mahony or Stander. If Carbery comes back from injury Healy has to go. To Ulster because Ireland will win nothing with an English reject at outhalf.

Needless to say there is an established international blocking the progress of a young scrum half at Munster too. And Kilcoyne and Cronin are blocking the progress of the good Wycherley at loose head (they can keep the lock/six, squad player at best). Also: too many fullbacks at Munster, keep the two they bought in ahead of the one they developed.

Ulster would have no interest in JOD as they already have Jordi. Might as well offer them Tommy O'Donnell.

Is any of this post serious?

[munster#1]

I think Penny has the potential to be world class as an openside. I don't think any of our other back-row prospects (as good as they are) have the potential to be world class, which I would define as mounting a credible challenge to inclusion in a World XV. It sounds odd but I would prefer to lose an established international back-row in the Jordi Murphy mould (in this case, possibly VDF or Ruddock) rather than Penny.

That is really high praise. I will definitely be watching him with interest.
Ireland could really do with a world class back row player.

[fourthirtythree]

Basically Coombes has to move on or Munster need to cut one of O'Mahony or Stander. If Carbery comes back from injury Healy has to go. To Ulster because Ireland will win nothing with an English reject at outhalf.

Needless to say there is an established international blocking the progress of a young scrum half at Munster too. And Kilcoyne and Cronin are blocking the progress of the good Wycherley at loose head (they can keep the lock/six, squad player at best). Also: too many fullbacks at Munster, keep the two they bought in ahead of the one they developed.

Ulster would have no interest in JOD as they already have Jordi. Might as well offer them Tommy O'Donnell.

Is any of this post serious?

Every last word. Munster finally have some actual young talent for the first time in 110 years and they need to be rewarded by the IRFU and Nucifora by having players moved in the middle of their contracts. That's how it works.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think Penny has the potential to be world class as an openside. I don't think any of our other back-row prospects (as good as they are) have the potential to be world class, which I would define as mounting a credible challenge to inclusion in a World XV. It sounds odd but I would prefer to lose an established international back-row in the Jordi Murphy mould (in this case, possibly VDF or Ruddock) rather than Penny.

Agree with this. I think he’s slightly underrated because he’s not 6’2” but when you actually look at his game he’s got everything. He’s a brilliant defender, wins turnovers, reads the game superbly so always knows where to be and where the ball will end up or where the threat is, is very strong in his close in carries, can link well, and has a nose for the try line. For me his ceiling is higher than VDF and Connors.

He reminds me a lot of Hooper.

[munster#1]

Basically Coombes has to move on or Munster need to cut one of O'Mahony or Stander. If Carbery comes back from injury Healy has to go. To Ulster because Ireland will win nothing with an English reject at outhalf.

Needless to say there is an established international blocking the progress of a young scrum half at Munster too. And Kilcoyne and Cronin are blocking the progress of the good Wycherley at loose head (they can keep the lock/six, squad player at best). Also: too many fullbacks at Munster, keep the two they bought in ahead of the one they developed.

Ulster would have no interest in JOD as they already have Jordi. Might as well offer them Tommy O'Donnell.

Is any of this post serious?

Every last word. Munster finally have some actual young talent for the first time in 110 years and they need to be rewarded by the IRFU and Nucifora by having players moved in the middle of their contracts. That's how it works.

Fair enough. Your comments seem a bit bitter, but I suppose I understand why you would feel that way.

Munster have lost players to other provinces too, wit one very promising out half already on Ulster’s books, but not to the same extent, so I am far from bitter about this.

How many Leinster players have been forced to move mid contract? Carberry is the only one I can think of.

[munster#1]

I think Penny has the potential to be world class as an openside. I don't think any of our other back-row prospects (as good as they are) have the potential to be world class, which I would define as mounting a credible challenge to inclusion in a World XV. It sounds odd but I would prefer to lose an established international back-row in the Jordi Murphy mould (in this case, possibly VDF or Ruddock) rather than Penny.

Agree with this. I think he’s slightly underrated because he’s not 6’2” but when you actually look at his game he’s got everything. He’s a brilliant defender, wins turnovers, reads the game superbly so always knows where to be and where the ball will end up or where the threat is, is very strong in his close in carries, can link well, and has a nose for the try line. For me his ceiling is higher than VDF and Connors.

He reminds me a lot of Hooper.

That is a serious selection headache for Leo to have then. That would mean that he will have to keep 4 international quality 7s happy.
Most teams struggle to get one quality open side.

Is there a particular reason for so many 7s coming through around the same time?

[Jcahill1]

I think Penny has the potential to be world class as an openside. I don't think any of our other back-row prospects (as good as they are) have the potential to be world class, which I would define as mounting a credible challenge to inclusion in a World XV. It sounds odd but I would prefer to lose an established international back-row in the Jordi Murphy mould (in this case, possibly VDF or Ruddock) rather than Penny.

Agree with this. I think he’s slightly underrated because he’s not 6’2” but when you actually look at his game he’s got everything. He’s a brilliant defender, wins turnovers, reads the game superbly so always knows where to be and where the ball will end up or where the threat is, is very strong in his close in carries, can link well, and has a nose for the try line. For me his ceiling is higher than VDF and Connors.

He reminds me a lot of Hooper.

I'm unfortunately in the 6'2 camp. I also have really liked his performances when he plays, but I also think that at the top level size really counts. In my opinion Ireland already suffers from having a smaller international pack in terms of scrum and close in collisions. I would be surprised if Pennys many great attributes can outweigh his stature at international level.

[ronk]

If you need a big open side to boost pack size average then you have problems.

And a mobile game plan is the answer.

Connors is bigger but he’s a chop tackler anyway. Otherwise size is relatively close. Lots of teams play 2 open sides and we might have more recently if availability had been right.