Leinster Squad 20-21

[LeinsterLeader]

So what exactly is in that headline or article that’s offensive or wrong? He’s saying exactly what has been said numerous times on here.

We have too many good backrowers to keep them happy.
Clearly at least one will need to leave.
Money issues at the IRFU will make it even more likely that they’ll push a move.

I think the inevitability of this is pretty much what I said above (don't think anyone was offended).

For what it's worth I'm not sure this would be the right move for JC if he has hopes to renew his position as No. 8 candidate for Ireland. It would seem he's in a pretty similar position to Jordi Murphy when he jumped ship and though he's played well up North he has been quickly forgotten about by the Ireland setup. It wouldn't be a great stretch (for me anyway) to see something similar happen with JC.

I'm not sure the timing is right for Deegan either, in relation to when he'd be back from injury plus would Ulster be willing to risk it all on a guy coming back from such a major injury.

Loath though I am to say it I think RR would be the best fit for them at them moment. His international position can't get much worse for moving and it might get him viewed in a different light by the Irish setup. Would be gutted though

[riocard911]

So what exactly is in that headline or article that’s offensive or wrong? He’s saying exactly what has been said numerous times on here.

We have too many good backrowers to keep them happy.
Clearly at least one will need to leave.
Money issues at the IRFU will make it even more likely that they’ll push a move.

I'll tell you what's offensive: it's Ruaidhrí O'Connor perpetually beating the drum that somehow the IRFU according to the wisdom (sic) of David Nucifora sharing Leinster's player riches with the other provinces is good for Irish rugby.

"We have to many good backrowers to keep them happy. Clearly at least one of them will need to leave" - is a thesis, not a fact. It also a thesis I don't believe in - see injuries, squad rotation. And even if there were some credence to it, I would prefer the players and management at Leinster Rugby sort it and not David Nucifora with the help of his minions in de meedja. CJ Stander is on an Ireland contract. Let the IRFU dispose of him as they see fit and if Ulster are in a fix send him up there. I'm sick and tired of the immediate solution to squad deficits in Connacht, Munster and Ulster being "who can we move from Leinster?" - as if we've somehow too many good players. We don't, if we want to be year in, year out contenders for the ERCC.

[dropkick]

Let the pillaging commence (or is it ..... let the pillaging continue)!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 15354.html

I don't think Leo Cullen will be losing too much sleep over it. Some players have to be moved on and it's usually the likes of Jordi Murphy, Jack McGrath etc. The big mover, Carbery, has been crippled with injuries.


They can get some players off the books, free up cash and blame Nucifora and the other provinces for poaching. Well played!


If I was Ulster I would be going after Penny, Josh Murphy and Dunne.
If I was Leinster I would be offering VDF, Conan and Molony and then complain about Nucifora.

[OTT]

Jack Conan was our first choice 8 before his most recent injury (around 2-3months ago). Fans can all have their own preferences but when it came to the biggest game of our season Leo/Stu picked Conan to start against Saracens. I’d have thought he would be a guy the coaches would fight to keep, they seem to rate him massively.

It looked like Deegan was 3rd choice 8 behind Conan and Doris when all were fit (again in the coaches mind) now he is out injured long term he doesn’t even have an opportunity to change the coaches thinking on that, I’d see him as more likely to leave than Conan.

[ronk]

Jack Conan came straight back from injury to get picked for Leinster. He made the Ireland squad too but got injured.

We may have too many backrows on paper but they are all getting good game time for us and getting good opportunities on the international side. Injuries and international time have kept it workable.

We have 4 opensides, 3 8s, 2 blindsides and 2 lock/blindsides who have been primarily playing lock. Using Connors or even Leavy at 6 for a few games would balance any positional issues and give us tactical alternatives.

This year (12 months from August) sees 5 international tournaments/tours and 5 club competitions. Lot of rugby.

This is another lazy canard like tighthead where people think we are overstocked but in reality we have less effective depth than other provinces. And we need depth to compete at the top of the HC.

[wixfjord]

So what exactly is in that headline or article that’s offensive or wrong? He’s saying exactly what has been said numerous times on here.

We have too many good backrowers to keep them happy.
Clearly at least one will need to leave.
Money issues at the IRFU will make it even more likely that they’ll push a move.

I'll tell you what's offensive: it's Ruaidhrí O'Connor perpetually beating the drum that somehow the IRFU according to the wisdom (sic) of David Nucifora sharing Leinster's player riches with the other provinces is good for Irish rugby.

"We have to many good backrowers to keep them happy. Clearly at least one of them will need to leave" - is a thesis, not a fact. It also a thesis I don't believe in - see injuries, squad rotation. And even if there were some credence to it, I would prefer the players and management at Leinster Rugby sort it and not David Nucifora with the help of his minions in de meedja. CJ Stander is on an Ireland contract. Let the IRFU dispose of him as they see fit and if Ulster are in a fix send him up there. I'm sick and tired of the immediate solution to squad deficits in Connacht, Munster and Ulster being "who can we move from Leinster?" - as if we've somehow too many good players. We don't, if we want to be year in, year out contenders for the ERCC.

No, it's not a thesis. Yours is a pure biased viewpoint and not living in the real world.

There simply isn't enough game time for us to hold on to the backrows we have. That's a fact.
Someone is going to leave.

I can never understand how Irish provincial fans don't understand the fact that first and foremost their province is a branch of a wider organisation. And one of its man priorities is to provide players for that entity.

It's total nonsense to on the one hand say 'we've an embarrassment of riches' in the backrow, then be surprised when it's mooted that one of them might leave to fill a massive hole in Ulster.

This is *exactly* the way the provincial system should work. We have all the advantages and have created a backlog of talent, money is tight (as is gametime) so it's been flagged that one of them could fill a gap in Ulster.

I mean if you're 'offended' by that then I don't know what to say.

[Keith]

So what exactly is in that headline or article that’s offensive or wrong? He’s saying exactly what has been said numerous times on here.

We have too many good backrowers to keep them happy.
Clearly at least one will need to leave.
Money issues at the IRFU will make it even more likely that they’ll push a move.

I'll tell you what's offensive: it's Ruaidhrí O'Connor perpetually beating the drum that somehow the IRFU according to the wisdom (sic) of David Nucifora sharing Leinster's player riches with the other provinces is good for Irish rugby.

"We have to many good backrowers to keep them happy. Clearly at least one of them will need to leave" - is a thesis, not a fact. It also a thesis I don't believe in - see injuries, squad rotation. And even if there were some credence to it, I would prefer the players and management at Leinster Rugby sort it and not David Nucifora with the help of his minions in de meedja. CJ Stander is on an Ireland contract. Let the IRFU dispose of him as they see fit and if Ulster are in a fix send him up there. I'm sick and tired of the immediate solution to squad deficits in Connacht, Munster and Ulster being "who can we move from Leinster?" - as if we've somehow too many good players. We don't, if we want to be year in, year out contenders for the ERCC.

No, it's not a thesis. Yours is a pure biased viewpoint and not living in the real world.

There simply isn't enough game time for us to hold on to the backrows we have. That's a fact.
Someone is going to leave.

I can never understand how Irish provincial fans don't understand the fact that first and foremost their province is a branch of a wider organisation. And one of its man priorities is to provide players for that entity.

It's total nonsense to on the one hand say 'we've an embarrassment of riches' in the backrow, then be surprised when it's mooted that one of them might leave to fill a massive hole in Ulster.

This is *exactly* the way the provincial system should work. We have all the advantages and have created a backlog of talent, money is tight (as is gametime) so it's been flagged that one of them could fill a gap in Ulster.

I mean if you're 'offended' by that then I don't know what to say.

I also can never understand how provincial fans know how our back row players just can't wait to get out of the province. If you read on here enough you'd swear Scott Penny is just counting down the days until he gets to switch to munster.

[Laighin Break]

Who in Leinster's back row has been fit but hasn't had enough game time this season?

[ronk]

Who in Leinster's back row has been fit but hasn't had enough game time this season?

Or last.

People were confident it would happen anyway. It’s pretty well established at this point that the one who jumps first is sacrificing his chances.

[riocard911]

To Wixfjord:

I have never said "we've an embarrassment of riches" in the backrow. Thus, it never surprises me, as it happens so frequently, but rather annoys me no end, when some rugby pundit or other - not always, but invariably Ruaidhrí O'Connor - ventilates the notion of filling one or other gap in the other three provinces' ranks with one or other Leinster player.

I don't have a problem with players moving provinces, as long as it's done all above board without the interference of the IRFU (assistance I don't mind). Jack Aungier moving to Connacht was a good idea for all concerned, when the assumption was Roman Salanoa was staying in Leinster, less so when the latter did a bunk to Munster.

I thought it was a clever bit of work, when Leo brought Cian Kelleher back from Connacht the season before last. That was a signal, that one could leave Leinster - presumably on good terms - gain experience and game time at another province and later return.

As regards to the goal of supplying players to the national team, I am 100% in favour. The problem, which the proponents of the notion of an "abundance of riches" at Leinster, which somehow needs to be spread more evenly about the provinces, overlook, is that the risk is run of killing the goose, which lays the golden eggs. Leinster are already providing Andy Farrell with "oven-ready" internationals from its second team! Those players are better coached and better prepared to step up onto the Test stage, because they are part one of the top five squads in Europe. If Leinster's strength is diluted, then the national team will suffer. For that reason I think the best people to decide, whether Leinster players should move or not are the players themselves and the Leinster coaching staff.

[wixfjord]

Who in Leinster's back row has been fit but hasn't had enough game time this season?

What would you starting back row and sub be for the Northampton game in three weeks time?

[ronk]

Ruddock, Doris, vDF with Leavy sub.

With Deegan, Conan and Connors out it’s really only Murphy and Penny not getting action.

[munster#1]

Even without a move to Ulster being discussed you’d have to imagine that Leinster and the IRFU will have to identify ways of reducing overheads.

The obvious way is to go position by position and see if there are any areas where fat can be trimmed.
Backrow is a certainty.

Leinster have the largest squad of the 4 provinces, and looking at the quality within the squad, you would have to assume that they have the largest wage bill.

I think we will see each province being impacted by the required cuts, but Leinster fans should be braced for a fairly severe cull IMO.

[Laighin Break]

No doubt Leinster have the largest wage bill but they surely take in considerably more than the other provinces which I'd like to think would be taken into account

[wixfjord]

Ruddock, Doris, vDF with Leavy sub.

With Deegan, Conan and Connors out it’s really only Murphy and Penny not getting action.

Conan and Connors are fit.

So four excellent backrows aren’t getting game time.

[Laighin Break]

Ruddock, Doris, vDF with Leavy sub.

With Deegan, Conan and Connors out it’s really only Murphy and Penny not getting action.

Conan and Connors are fit.

So four excellent backrows aren’t getting game time.

You can't equate not being in the starting 23 for one particular match to not getting game time.
Leinster do this thing called rotation

[munster#1]

No doubt Leinster have the largest wage bill but they surely take in considerably more than the other provinces which I'd like to think would be taken into account

From my experience of working with businesses in a financial crisis, all that is taken into consideration is the bottom line.

Right now the IRFU are running at a loss, and this loss is likely to be present for much of the next 24 months and maybe beyond as all cash reserves will be used.

The IRFU are in survival mode, and all 4 provinces are currently brining in a fairly equal income, so out outgoings are all that will be looked at for the time being.

I do not have the figures, but I see some posters on here are touted as being the all seeing eye, so perhaps they can answer this, but I would suspect that Leinster have a wage bill close to 1.5m-2.5m more than the other 3 provinces.

Fans need to get it into their heads that this is all about short term survival, and not about one of the provinces winning the HC.

[deco]

Is David Nucifora posting on here under an alias to soften us up before another raid?

It's Wixfjord, innit.

[wixfjord]

Is David Nucifora posting on here under an alias to soften us up before another raid?

It's Wixfjord, innit.

Deeeeep cover

[wixfjord]

Ruddock, Doris, vDF with Leavy sub.

With Deegan, Conan and Connors out it’s really only Murphy and Penny not getting action.

Conan and Connors are fit.

So four excellent backrows aren’t getting game time.

You can't equate not being in the starting 23 for one particular match to not getting game time.
Leinster do this thing called rotation

That’s the key point though innit? For every big game there’s going to be 3/4 guys annoyed they’re not starting the major tests.

We’ve known for years we’ve a backlog of backrows, it’s clear we won’t be able to keep them all.