2nd Row going forward

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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

With the extension of Fardy and Toner for one more season, all the senior 2nd rows signed a new contract this season, along with 2 promotions from the academy this is what the position looks like currently:

Lock
Devin Toner(34) - 6'11, 126kg. Signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Ross Molony(26) - 6'6, 111kg. signed contract in 2020
James Ryan(24) - 6'8, 112kg. signed 3 yr central contract in 2020
Jack Dunne(21) - 6'8, 115kg. signed contract in 2020
Charlie Ryan(21) - 6'7 110kg. Academy Yr 2
Brian Deeny(20) - 6'7, 110kg. Academy Yr 2

Lock/Blindside
Scott Fardy(36) - 6'6, 114kg. Signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Josh Murphy(25) - 6'6, 108kg. signed contract in 2020.
Ryan Baird(21) - 6'6 110kg, signed contract in 2020.

You'd assume this is Fardy's last season with Leinster and Toner will continue on after this upcoming season, Ryan moving onto a central contract was a given, he already only plays in leinster's most important games. Dunne graduated from the academy early along with Baird. It will be interesting to see how the share game time going forward with so many young players knocking around who need game time. Could Leinster next season only have homegrown 2nd rows next season? Or is a experienced, heavier lock needed?

Potential academy entrants:
Alex Soroka(U20/Belvedere/Clontarf) - 6'5, 105kg
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Joe McCarthy(U20/Blackrock/DUFC) - 6'6, 108kg
Show Spoiler:
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Soroka fits the Lock/Blindside prototype with experience at both positions, it's heavily rumoured he has joined the academy and is very highly rated as a blindside. McCarthy was impressive off the bench for the 20's and looked to have the frame and physicality for TH lock, it wouldn't be a surprise if he also joined the academy this summer. Beyond that leinster's production line of 2nd rows continues with 4 underage 2nd rows involved with ireland u18 last season.

Ruckedtobits
Shane Jennings
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Promotion rather than development introduces two additional risks, viz: premature injury & external recruitment.

Would be very keen to see focus on CoE development right up to point of recruiting into the Academy following by entire first year in Academy focussed on a) working with Senior Squad and National U.20; b) Selected A game Squads c) Regulat blocks of AIL games but max three at a run - keeping aspirations & standards at professional levels.

Limited or no U.20 JP Fanagan games.

Workhorse
Bookworm
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by Workhorse »

It would be a huge step backwards for Leinster to have hard and fast rules for academy development. Currently everything is tailored to the player and it works well but joined up thinking with clubs could be a lot better.
Majority of players lister there played at least half a season of u20s club rugby and it arguably improved them as players. Others just went straight to AIL and that suited them. Every player is different and need different development paths

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Of the players listed not many of them played much U20 rugby.. maybe Charlie Ryan played a good amount as a u19.

Workhorse
Bookworm
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by Workhorse »

I don't know about Toner but as I said for their first 6 months out of school the others all played a lot of u20s club rugby bar maybe Baird

riocard911
Isa Nacewa
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by riocard911 »

When one considers Ryan Baird's try hat-trick and all-round MOTM performance in his first start in blue versus Glasgow, am I getting ahead of meself, or is anyone else the opinion, that Leo et al could do worse than sending him out against Munster to see how he gets on and whether he's a viable option for the Heino qf vs Saracens? If I remember correctly, James Ryan was originally on the bench and only got the starting shirt in the 2017/2018 home group match vs Montpellier cos Fardy's wife went into labour, but since that day has been a nailed-on starter à la Johnny Sexton.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

I'm sure Baird will start one of the first two games. But to suggest he should be ahead of one of Toner, Ryan or Fardy for the saracens game..

well i'm the biggest fan of playing young guys but can't justify that tbh

leinsterforever
Mullet
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by leinsterforever »

Fardy at 6 and Baird as the bench lock. That's the way I'd be leaning for Saracens.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by wixfjord »

Why?

I don't really see what the reason for bringing in Baird for Sarries is, unless he has a stormer in the next few games.

Even if you started Fardy, Rhys and one of the other myriad of backrows we have would be better options to bench.

Baird is immensely talented, but the one area he perhaps lacks a bit is in bulk and that's exactly the area we need to match Sarries.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Academy 2nd rows..aren't small, if you believe the official listings:

Charlie Ryan(21) - 6'7 110kg. Academy Yr 2
Brian Deeny(20) - 6'7, 110kg. Academy Yr 2
Joe McCarthy(19) - 6'6, 110kg. Academy Yr 1

McCarthy looks to be a real power athlete, not sure i'd place either Ryan or Deeny in that category.

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Oldschoolsocks
Isa Nacewa
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

mildlyinterested wrote:
July 16th, 2020, 9:53 am
Academy 2nd rows..aren't small, if you believe the official listings:

Charlie Ryan(21) - 6'7 110kg. Academy Yr 2
Brian Deeny(20) - 6'7, 110kg. Academy Yr 2
Joe McCarthy(19) - 6'6, 110kg. Academy Yr 1

McCarthy looks to be a real power athlete, not sure i'd place either Ryan or Deeny in that category.
Always looks odd to have height in old money and weight in yo-yos

Ruckedtobits
Shane Jennings
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Joined: April 10th, 2011, 10:23 am

Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by Ruckedtobits »

mildlyinterested wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 8:30 am
With the extension of Fardy and Toner for one more season, all the senior 2nd rows signed a new contract this season, along with 2 promotions from the academy this is what the position looks like currently:

Lock
Devin Toner(34) - 6'11, 126kg. Signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Ross Molony(26) - 6'6, 111kg. signed contract in 2020
James Ryan(24) - 6'8, 112kg. signed 3 yr central contract in 2020
Jack Dunne(21) - 6'8, 115kg. signed contract in 2020
Charlie Ryan(21) - 6'7 110kg. Academy Yr 2
Brian Deeny(20) - 6'7, 110kg. Academy Yr 2

Lock/Blindside
Scott Fardy(36) - 6'6, 114kg. Signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Josh Murphy(25) - 6'6, 108kg. signed contract in 2020.
Ryan Baird(21) - 6'6 110kg, signed contract in 2020.

You'd assume this is Fardy's last season with Leinster and Toner will continue on after this upcoming season, Ryan moving onto a central contract was a given, he already only plays in leinster's most important games. Dunne graduated from the academy early along with Baird. It will be interesting to see how the share game time going forward with so many young players knocking around who need game time. Could Leinster next season only have homegrown 2nd rows next season? Or is a experienced, heavier lock needed?
Yup. This is definitely the position we need to take care of most.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5569
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 10:12 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 8:30 am
With the extension of Fardy and Toner for one more season, all the senior 2nd rows signed a new contract this season, along with 2 promotions from the academy this is what the position looks like currently:

Lock
Devin Toner(34) - 6'11, 126kg. Signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Ross Molony(26) - 6'6, 111kg. signed contract in 2020
James Ryan(24) - 6'8, 112kg. signed 3 yr central contract in 2020
Jack Dunne(21) - 6'8, 115kg. signed contract in 2020
Charlie Ryan(21) - 6'7 110kg. Academy Yr 2
Brian Deeny(20) - 6'7, 110kg. Academy Yr 2

Lock/Blindside
Scott Fardy(36) - 6'6, 114kg. Signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Josh Murphy(25) - 6'6, 108kg. signed contract in 2020.
Ryan Baird(21) - 6'6 110kg, signed contract in 2020.

You'd assume this is Fardy's last season with Leinster and Toner will continue on after this upcoming season, Ryan moving onto a central contract was a given, he already only plays in leinster's most important games. Dunne graduated from the academy early along with Baird. It will be interesting to see how the share game time going forward with so many young players knocking around who need game time. Could Leinster next season only have homegrown 2nd rows next season? Or is a experienced, heavier lock needed?
Yup. This is definitely the position we need to take care of most.
take care of how?

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ronk
Leo Cullen
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by ronk »

I think it means keep on top of player development. If Toner follows Fardy out the door then we suddenly look very light in terms of depth with experience (rather than promise).

There’s a year to change that first and I think we’ll see more of Dunne and Baird in particular.

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ronk
Leo Cullen
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by ronk »

Oh and I wouldn’t plan on signing a lock in a years time.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

ronk wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 11:12 pm
Oh and I wouldn’t plan on signing a lock in a years time.
Yeah I can't see it myself, hopefully Toner sticks around, so they don't lose Fardy and Toner at the same time.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »


kendo90
Posts: 4
Joined: December 7th, 2014, 4:19 pm

Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by kendo90 »

Another long time reader who’s new to posting here.
I’ve heard through the team Ireland channels that James Ryan has injured his shoulder in training and will miss the sarries game. Would be a terrible blow. Can anyone shed any light?


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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5569
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Leinster haven't been training since the 10th and weren't doing contact so find it hard to believe.. but let's hope not.

kendo90
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Joined: December 7th, 2014, 4:19 pm

Re: 2nd Row going forward

Post by kendo90 »

I thought the timing was strange alright. Hopefully you’re right


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