Munster in the Aviva, August 22nd, 7.35pm KO

[Oldschoolsocks]

While I agree it is far from ideal which one do you think is a cheat? Brace and Clancy are both international referees and Neville is a person with a very good reputation. It's hard to accept though and it' even harder to accept that neither Ulster nor Connacht could have provided one, two or all three on-field officials. If they can't then the IRFU is seriously failing in referee development.

It doesn't matter who I think is a cheat or not. What matters is that the league should never be using referees who have a clear conflict of interest.

In fairness it could actually affect the team they hail from more in that the referee wants to make sure they are giving no bias by being even harsher on that team than the other, so it could basically work both ways - I agree that refs should be completely neutral to ensure a fair match for both sides

Clownshoes Clancy is demonstrably incompetent.

Joy Neville spent an entire half calling Leinster offside down in Muzzer (I think) and somehow missed all of Munsters infringements.

Cheating - probably not.
Questionable choice for officiating this match - probably.

[munster#1]

I feel like a child on Christmas Eve.
I cannot wait for this game.

On the style of play, I think both teams will play simple direct rugby, with short passes to players running subtle lines.
The lack of rugby, especially match minutes over the last 2 months will mean that players will be rusty, and will need some time to redevelop their muscle memory.

The gain line and aerial battles will be huge tomorrow, but I think I think we will see a few tries coming from the oppositions errors rather than structured play.
The team that makes the least unforced errors will be the team that comes out on top of this one imo.

[Oldschool]

I feel like a child on Christmas Eve.
I cannot wait for this game.

On the style of play, I think both teams will play simple direct rugby, with short passes to players running subtle lines.
The lack of rugby, especially match minutes over the last 2 months will mean that players will be rusty, and will need some time to redevelop their muscle memory.

The gain line and aerial battles will be huge tomorrow, but I think I think we will see a few tries coming from the oppositions errors rather than structured play.
The team that makes the least unforced errors will be the team that comes out on top of this one imo.

You are not alone.

[Blueberry]

While I agree it is far from ideal which one do you think is a cheat? Brace and Clancy are both international referees and Neville is a person with a very good reputation. It's hard to accept though and it' even harder to accept that neither Ulster nor Connacht could have provided one, two or all three on-field officials. If they can't then the IRFU is seriously failing in referee development.

It doesn't matter who I think is a cheat or not. What matters is that the league should never be using referees who have a clear conflict of interest.

Guarantees I will now spend most of tomorrow evening screaming at a telly now.............

Still will be good to see the lads jog out for some training against da Boks en rouge........

[wixfjord]

Starting pack wise, we have a clear advantage imo, particularly regards carrying.
The question is whether the first 50/60 will be so error strewn that it won't matter as much.

That advantage definitely evens out when you get to the bench, but having Deegan/Connors to come on is a big boost.

Holland and TOD starting instead of JOD & Kleyn is a big drop imo, particularly at lineout.

As has been said above, the team that limits their errors the best will win. I think we might just have a bit more cohesion and clarity over what we're trying to do than Munster, which might just swing it.

[Dave Cahill]

I dunno, what you lose with Holland in the lineout you gain elsewhere

[neiliog93]

I dunno, what you lose with Holland in the lineout you gain elsewhere

Holland offers commitment and hard work. No size, strength, power, athleticism, or skill though. Average player and ageing now.

[Dave Cahill]

Holland has plenty of strength and power and he's a more than adequete footballer for the position he's in. He's never going to set the world on fire, but he's going to turn in 7/10s week in week out and those are the guys you build a team and a season around, not the lads who show up for half a dozen games a season

[Oldschoolsocks]

So he’s consistently slightly above average?

[sunshiner1]

Can't wait for the game. Glad to see two young lads like Baird and Daly getting gametime as well.

[neiliog93]

I'd say he's consistently a 6/10.

[Up Wexford]

Ive always found Holland to be a 7+/10 lineout operator at least in pro 14 - him and O'Mahony, and Munster tend to perform well in the lineout V Leinster.

This is what makes Kelleher such and exciting prospect. During the double years our only slight chink in our armour (and definitely not a fatal flaw) was inconsistencies/miscommunication in our throwing. Kelleher already has the talents the loose with pace and physicality, if he nails his throwing consistently we could have something special.

Can't wait to see James Lowe bringing the ruckus again, and Dave being consistently excellent! Weather is due to brighten up, windy but clear for the evening

[curates_egg]

Confirmed.

https://twitter.com/munsterrugby/status ... 38848?s=21

No more toys for Munster until they stop breaking them.

All Limerick refereeing team for Saturday. Andy Brace in the middle with George Clancy and Joy Neville doing the line.

Would be fairly shocking if true - if there's any credibility gap for this league it's allowing referees from a place to referee that place as a matter of course.

While I agree it is far from ideal which one do you think is a cheat? Brace and Clancy are both international referees and Neville is a person with a very good reputation. It's hard to accept though and it' even harder to accept that neither Ulster nor Connacht could have provided one, two or all three on-field officials. If they can't then the IRFU is seriously failing in referee development.

I don’t think it’s a reach to say Clancy has been consistently biased against Leinster over the years. Hopefully, it won’t be too much of a factor today.
No problem with the other two.
Due to Ireland’s travel policy, and the high number of Munster Branch officials, there’s not a whole lot of choice...but I would be happy if Clancy never officiates a Leinster match ever again.

[ormond lad]

Confirmed.

https://twitter.com/munsterrugby/status ... 38848?s=21

No more toys for Munster until they stop breaking them.

All Limerick refereeing team for Saturday. Andy Brace in the middle with George Clancy and Joy Neville doing the line.

Would be fairly shocking if true - if there's any credibility gap for this league it's allowing referees from a place to referee that place as a matter of course.

While I agree it is far from ideal which one do you think is a cheat? Brace and Clancy are both international referees and Neville is a person with a very good reputation. It's hard to accept though and it' even harder to accept that neither Ulster nor Connacht could have provided one, two or all three on-field officials. If they can't then the IRFU is seriously failing in referee development.

Hard to say IRFU is failing. All pro refs are from Munster apart from Gallagher.
They are only using the pros for these games. Hardly going to bring in officials from other country in this time.

[hugonaut]

I dunno, what you lose with Holland in the lineout you gain elsewhere

Holland offers commitment and hard work. No size, strength, power, athleticism, or skill though. Average player and ageing now.

He's a very skilful forward, an excellent passer and handler for a front five player. Munster used him a lot this season in the way that Connacht used to used Aly Muldowney, and he is very capable of giving and taking passes under pressure in midfield.

In the 2019-20 season [thus far], he is credited with 95 passes and 5 offloads in 15 [13+2] games [source: https://www.munsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=BH225255 ]. That's basically three times as many passes and offloads as Max Deegan has thrown in the same period [31 passes, 2 offloads - source: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=MD356781].

Granted there is a significant difference in how the players play, but it's still legitimate to point out how often Holland handles the ball – and how rarely he loses possession: just 5 turnovers conceded in 184 possessions [95 passes + 89 carries*]. *EDIT

He's an intelligent, brave, durable and committed player, a wily lineout caller and a better than average lineout performer.

He is woefully undersized for a professional second row though. At 6'3", he'd have been undersized for a second row 40 years ago. And he's not powerful for his size, was never quick and – again, for a pro – an average athlete in terms of balance, co-ordination, jumping ability etc.

He's a guy doing the absolute best with what he has though, and I have a lot of time and respect for him.

[Morf]

He's a guy doing the absolute best with what he has though, and I have a lot of time and respect for him.

Sounds like the making of a very good coach there.

[alanair]

While I agree it is far from ideal which one do you think is a cheat?

Clancy is not a cheat ( as a Former Referee myself , I would say that very, very few are) - but generally reserves his worst refereeing performances for matches involving Leinster

[alanair]

Im in a strange mindset in relation to Tonights match . I actually dont care ( as much as I usually would) if we dont win this match... But is very important , to give as many of the squad as possible a good run out in a Competitive environment , to prepare us for more important matches ahead. And of course , not to pick up any further serious injuries.

[leinsterforever]

Holland's a canny player who plays bigger than his 6'3'' frame. He's not gonna come up with highlight reel moments too often but he's the kind of player who makes the team play better as a whole.

[deco]

While I agree it is far from ideal which one do you think is a cheat?

Clancy is not a cheat ( as a Former Referee myself , I would say that very, very few are) - but generally reserves his worst refereeing performances for matches involving Leinster

Ummm, that's being very kind