Munster in the Aviva, August 22nd, 7.35pm KO

[Blueberry]

Yes that is a mess for Snyman. Leaves Munster very light in the pack and I suspect Connacht are going to mill into them next weekend and they have to go full metal jacket as they can't risk losing that game as Scarlets can still catch them. I think Munster need 2 pts min as the tiebreaker is games won ??

Our game v Ulster now is very much a case of limiting any injuries on our side as Munster are really going to struggle now. Killer is a massive blow too and Christ they are light now in the second row.

[mildlyinterested]

In fairness it was a fairly tame post, I was just pointing out that the game was a lot closer than some comments would suggest.

Comments such as calling archer a J4 prop, hinting that the Munster selection was wrong and the team was too old.
Stander is carrying the pack.
De Allende is completely disinterested.
Murray looks even more snail paced.
Klyne is nothing more than a cart horse.

Even before the game posts were suggesting that Holland is a less than average player.

I apologies if all that came across as a hissy fit.
I even stated that Leinster were deserving winners, but some of the comments are a bit odd, especially when you consider how close the game actually was.

On a rugby front, rather a pi55ing contest, I doubt that either team will be overjoyed by how that game played out.

I suspect that Leinster will win the league, but they will find it difficult against Saracens.

Munster will struggle against Connacht, especially with their ever growing injury list, but Leinster will most likely hockey Munster in the Semi.

We can only hope, Munster are good enough to get there.

[OTT]

In fairness it was a fairly tame post, I was just pointing out that the game was a lot closer than some comments would suggest.

Comments such as calling archer a J4 prop, hinting that the Munster selection was wrong and the team was too old.
Stander is carrying the pack.
De Allende is completely disinterested.
Murray looks even more snail paced.
Klyne is nothing more than a cart horse.

Even before the game posts were suggesting that Holland is a less than average player.

I apologies if all that came across as a hissy fit.
I even stated that Leinster were deserving winners, but some of the comments are a bit odd, especially when you consider how close the game actually was.

On a rugby front, rather a pi55ing contest, I doubt that either team will be overjoyed by how that game played out.

I suspect that Leinster will win the league, but they will find it difficult against Saracens.

Munster will struggle against Connacht, especially with their ever growing injury list, but Leinster will most likely hockey Munster in the Semi.

What a disingenuous post, whatever about the players only getting back up to speed at least you are back in full flow already.

You can butcher whatever posts you like to portray your twisted view of things but no one ever said the Munster selection was wrong and to old. The Munster selection had a starting age of 29+ and they went with older players over younger players and the gamble did not pay off. That is what happened it does not need any interpretation. You could have lost the game with some selections that had eyes on the future, no? Now you have to go with a full strength team for a second week in a row because it did not pay off. If you cannot see that I can't help you.

Leinster can change their team up because these games are not as crucial for us as you, our big games are the games we have qualified for ie the semi final of the Pro 14 and the Quarter final of Europe, I flipping hope that is where we want to peek...as conceited as that doesn't sound. No amount of shitehousery on here will affect the result of those games, whatever side plays better on the day will probably win, neither game will be easy, thanks for pointing out the bleedin obvious.

I think Archer is sh!t, I think you have better TH's, I think you went and raided us for a young guy and you won't even play your own one who gets talked up all the time. I think Ryan is better also, I don't get it, but I don't have to. Delighted Archer gets picked from a Leinster perspective.

Keep being the moral compass of Leinster fans

[fourthirtythree]

Surprised Leinster went so strong last week actually. Leinster have won the right in recent years to spend the regular end of season reintegrating and managing the squad rather than worrying about results.

As for Archer I'm still shocked he has a pro career. Always good for off the ball sh!t as he can't keep up with the play. Need to play Knox more as Ryan's time needs to be managed IIRC.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Was it Archer who ended up head butting Sexton at a maul too? It probably wasn’t as bad as I’ve made it sound but I thought it was fairly deliberate anyway.

When was this? Missed it

49:30 just before Johnny whooped about the turnover. I had only got the replay at the time but watching it again you can see that Archer lined him up from a few metres away and it was definitely deliberate. He takes Johnny around the neck/jaw with one arm and then leads with his head into the back of Johnny’s. Filthy.

Having watched it again and I’m even more frustrated about the lineout. Kelleher is a poor thrower and I think he always will be, but of course we’re going to lose lineouts when the opposition launch jumpers across the line. For Snyman’s injury Holland doesn’t lift, Snyman just tried a one man lift with POM and was already heading across the line when Holland joined in and literally pushed him further across. When POM stole the lineout just before half time he ended up directly in front of Baird and had jumped so far across that he lost his lifters and just fell straight to the ground. It’s illegal and really dangerous, boils my piss that something so obvious was missed and it was happening all game.

I just don’t see Kelleher as being someone who will ever be consistently solid at lineout time or someone who’d particularly benefit from a guy like Dev being there. It’s no wonder he’d have struggled even more than usual when Munster were doing that though. The good thing is that his temperament (and I’ve noticed this before Saturday so I’m not just basing it on that) is brilliant so I think he’s able to forget about the previous throw and move on to the next one. So it’s not like Rory Best where if he missed his first throw you knew he was in for a bad day, or that you’d worry if he had a pressure throw in the 22. It doesn’t affect him around the pitch either and he was excellent in every other facet.

Lukey was excellent. His passing was good, he kept the tempo up, was a constant threat, tidied up messy ball, and his defence was excellent. He had a couple of really important tackles on their forwards in the 22. If he played like that every week we’d be laughing.

[wixfjord]

Ah any young hooker would hugely benefit from having Dev there.

The side we started is probably our worst lineout 4,5,6 in the senior squad.

A team with Dev, Ryan and Rhys/Fardy would be a much easier task for RK to throw to.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Ah any young hooker would hugely benefit from having Dev there.

The side we started is probably our worst lineout 4,5,6 in the senior squad.

A team with Dev, Ryan and Rhys/Fardy would be a much easier task for RK to throw to.

How come he hasn’t been great when he’s played with them then?

He’s just not a good thrower, never has been.

[wixfjord]

Ah any young hooker would hugely benefit from having Dev there.

The side we started is probably our worst lineout 4,5,6 in the senior squad.

A team with Dev, Ryan and Rhys/Fardy would be a much easier task for RK to throw to.

How come he hasn’t been great when he’s played with them then?

He’s just not a good thrower, never has been.

Where did I say he was a good or great thrower?

You said:

I just don’t see Kelleher as being...someone who’d particularly benefit from a guy like Dev being there.

My point is that of course he would benefit from having our best and most secure lineout jumper to throw at!

The 4-6 lineup we had on Sat was certainly not our strongest lineout choice.

If we're looking to help out RK then we can make selection choices to do that.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Yeah but my point is that he’ll still be a poor thrower regardless of who he’s throwing to, there’ll still be mistakes.

But also I’m very clear that a lot of the errors on Saturday were down to illegal play from Munster. So I’m not saying he’s a complete disaster, just that there’ll always be mistakes.

Cronin is a good example too, plenty of dodgy throws over the years despite having Dev etc in front of him. Just a personal opinion but I think someone like Best needed the comfort of that kind of target to hit, don’t think Cronin and RK necessarily do, it’s more about technique than the mental side.

Don’t mean this as a slight on Dev either obviously, he adds a lot but he could make a great call and get his timing perfect etc and still have the ball fly over his head.

P.s. debates are lot easier without unnecessary laughing emojis.

[Wanderers FC]

Ah any young hooker would hugely benefit from having Dev there.

The side we started is probably our worst lineout 4,5,6 in the senior squad.

A team with Dev, Ryan and Rhys/Fardy would be a much easier task for RK to throw to.

How come he hasn’t been great when he’s played with them then?

He’s just not a good thrower, never has been.

I thought he threw well most of last season. Are you rewriting history or do you just have a short memory?

[Sugary tae]

Watched a lot of it back last night.

Prematch I looked at our selection and wasn’t happy and it played out that way. Picking cloete as a substitute is idiotic. I know jod was ruled out pre match which vaulted Tod into the team but cloete is a poor substitute option. He covers one spot only. More so if in the unlikely event of Munster being ahead for the final minutes having a jackel might help but considering we were chasing the game as per 14 of the last 15 visits having a small light flanker who can’t carry and can’t cover any other positions is poor selection Having bigger lad like jos or Coombes or Wycherley who cover 6-8 and lock in Coombes or Wycherleys case is a better idea. Plus those 3 guys are all guys who could benefit from minutes in this cauldron

Thought JJ mixed the good with the bad but more importantly he was central to us scoring 3 tries through the backline. 6 months ago we’d still be bashing away at the line with the fat lads.

Personally I’d have started knox or Ryan (salanoa out with a short term knock). Archer is fine but you’re really not going to win anything with him.
Knox particularly is a good carrier so could make a better impact option. Scrum was under mega pressure

Not sure about loughman. Long stint for him but his scrummaging needs to improve. While Cronin can be a penalty machine if fit he’s a better option behind killer

Niall scannell was a good bit off the pace. First game I know but there’s a decent player there if we can shake it out of him. He looks like he’s overthinking it a lot. Kelleher was excellent round the park

Holland is the glue and the brains of the pack. No Coincidence our lineout still functioned well even with all the injuries. Bigger issue for me now is billy will play loads of the bigger games while previously I hope he’d play the smaller games and babysit young Ahern.

Tod had an average game. Vdf excellent

Farrell and DDA looked decent.
Daly looks an excellent option at this level. Might be a better attacker than Haley


For Leinster ringrose And Doris shone for me. Doris vdf and cj/conan would be a tasty Irish backrow. Healy was his usual self. Lad dishes out some serious punishment. It’s not tuddlywinks
Assuming Kelleher sorts his darts there’s a super player there. Bull of a lad.
Baird survived well. Covers a lot of ground. Obviously a player for the future. Could have been caught for a marginally forward pass for the try but thems the breaks

[wixfjord]

Yeah but my point is that he’ll still be a poor thrower regardless of who he’s throwing to, there’ll still be mistakes.

Right, but it clearly will be easier for him to throw to better lineout jumpers! I mean any hooker benefits from having better targets to throw to!

P.s. debates are lot easier without unnecessary laughing emojis.

Ah will you stop being so feckin touchy.

[Wanderers FC]

Was it Archer who ended up head butting Sexton at a maul too? It probably wasn’t as bad as I’ve made it sound but I thought it was fairly deliberate anyway.

When was this? Missed it

49:30 just before Johnny whooped about the turnover. I had only got the replay at the time but watching it again you can see that Archer lined him up from a few metres away and it was definitely deliberate. He takes Johnny around the neck/jaw with one arm and then leads with his head into the back of Johnny’s. Filthy.

Having watched it again and I’m even more frustrated about the lineout. Kelleher is a poor thrower and I think he always will be, but of course we’re going to lose lineouts when the opposition launch jumpers across the line. For Snyman’s injury Holland doesn’t lift, Snyman just tried a one man lift with POM and was already heading across the line when Holland joined in and literally pushed him further across. When POM stole the lineout just before half time he ended up directly in front of Baird and had jumped so far across that he lost his lifters and just fell straight to the ground. It’s illegal and really dangerous, boils my piss that something so obvious was missed and it was happening all game.

I just don’t see Kelleher as being someone who will ever be consistently solid at lineout time or someone who’d particularly benefit from a guy like Dev being there. It’s no wonder he’d have struggled even more than usual when Munster were doing that though. The good thing is that his temperament (and I’ve noticed this before Saturday so I’m not just basing it on that) is brilliant so I think he’s able to forget about the previous throw and move on to the next one. So it’s not like Rory Best where if he missed his first throw you knew he was in for a bad day, or that you’d worry if he had a pressure throw in the 22. It doesn’t affect him around the pitch either and he was excellent in every other facet.

Lukey was excellent. His passing was good, he kept the tempo up, was a constant threat, tidied up messy ball, and his defence was excellent. He had a couple of really important tackles on their forwards in the 22. If he played like that every week we’d be laughing.

Kelleher is a fine thrower of the ball. I think the occasion got to him, the lineout came unprepared as a unit for Holland and O Mahoney one of the best defensive jumpers in the world. To write him off as a bad thrower after one game is a little premature. Give him time to get it right. It’s madness and over the top to write him off so soon.

The lineout as a unit didn’t do the necessary preparation for very good Munster defensive lineout. The calls weren’t relayed to Kelleher before he threw and he didn’t stand up and say to his teammates I am not taking this throw until I get the call loud and clear relayed to the whole lineout.

The second thing was the calls made were wrong. Usually a lineout will take the first two throws to 2 to steady the ship and secure the first few line outs. It’s true O Mahoney and Holland we’re getting up early and in front of our jumpers and Kelleher didn’t have the composure to wait for the opposition jumper to fall and then throw the ball but those small details will come with maturity and the confidence to wait and throw at his own pace.

Thirdly throwing to Baird was not the right call either on 2 of the lost line outs. To have such an inexperienced jumper taking some of the first line outs in the game is madness. Fardy and Doris need to stand up there take responsibility and call them to themselves.

I think the occasion got to Kelleher and there were multiple system and preparation errors before he even threw the ball. With experience he will learn to grow his confidence to delay the throw if a) the call isn’t made clearly to teammates and b) if the timing of the opposition jumper is to get across our jumpers. All that said he did overthrow 2 line outs and put one crooked one in but that’s solely a confidence and timing thing.

To say he never was and never will be a good thrower is immature and petty of you.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Yeah but my point is that he’ll still be a poor thrower regardless of who he’s throwing to, there’ll still be mistakes.

Right, but it clearly will be easier for him to throw to better lineout jumpers! I mean any hooker benefits from having better targets to throw to!

P.s. debates are lot easier without unnecessary laughing emojis.

Ah will you stop being so feckin touchy.

Yes but I said “particularly” meaning that it would improve but not massively. There will always be an issue with Kelleher is the main point.

Don’t think I was being touchy, but I wasn’t trying to be smart or twist your words so didn’t think it warranted that response.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Ah any young hooker would hugely benefit from having Dev there.

The side we started is probably our worst lineout 4,5,6 in the senior squad.

A team with Dev, Ryan and Rhys/Fardy would be a much easier task for RK to throw to.

How come he hasn’t been great when he’s played with them then?

He’s just not a good thrower, never has been.

I thought he threw well most of last season. Are you rewriting history or do you just have a short memory?

Welcome back pilotman

[joooooe]

How come he hasn’t been great when he’s played with them then?

He’s just not a good thrower, never has been.

I thought he threw well most of last season. Are you rewriting history or do you just have a short memory?

Welcome back pilotman

My thoughts exactly

[Flash Gordon]

rewatching, looks like Baird was calling the lineout, big responsibility for a 21 yr old.

He lead the tackle count for us too with 18. Not sure what happened to Scotty Fardy, he had a very quiet game and only made one tackle. Thought we were completely outplayed at the breakdown, our lineout was blessed by Snyman coming off and they destroyed us in the air - Jordan had a very tough day at the office. We defended really well though (James Lowe excepted....), scrummaged well and showed good patience through the phases with both Ringrose and Lowe looking really good with ball in hand.

Good to tough it out, lots of work ons.

[Wanderers FC]

I’m all for giving young guys the chance to take on responsibility and the chance to usurp players if it comes off. But what if it doesn’t come off? Are the players solely to blame or are management at fault for heightening the risk % to unacceptable levels? Cullen with all his lineout experience has to take some blame if Baird was calling the line outs on his first game against one of the best defensive lineout jumpers in the world in OMahony.

[Hippo]

49:30 just before Johnny whooped about the turnover. I had only got the replay at the time but watching it again you can see that Archer lined him up from a few metres away and it was definitely deliberate. He takes Johnny around the neck/jaw with one arm and then leads with his head into the back of Johnny’s. Filthy.

Thanks, found it. Dirty and potentially very dangerous. WTF is he trying to prove?!

[ronk]

Which comments?

All the comments. Very disrectful.

Being coddled with fawning press coverage for historic draws and the like will have this effect on your perception.

Remember now, this lad stormed outta here a few years back complaining about lack of respect or something. He has a history of strops and huffs.

It was something about counting to 9