Munster in the Aviva, August 22nd, 7.35pm KO

[Flash Gordon]

49:30 just before Johnny whooped about the turnover. I had only got the replay at the time but watching it again you can see that Archer lined him up from a few metres away and it was definitely deliberate. He takes Johnny around the neck/jaw with one arm and then leads with his head into the back of Johnny’s. Filthy.

Thanks, found it. Dirty and potentially very dangerous. WTF is he trying to prove?!

Not sure how the officials missed that particularly with the benefit of cameras. The commentators called it straight away for what it was, a cheap shot.

[hugonaut]

Watched a lot of it back last night.

Prematch I looked at our selection and wasn’t happy and it played out that way. Picking cloete as a substitute is idiotic. I know jod was ruled out pre match which vaulted Tod into the team but cloete is a poor substitute option. He covers one spot only. More so if in the unlikely event of Munster being ahead for the final minutes having a jackel might help but considering we were chasing the game as per 14 of the last 15 visits having a small light flanker who can’t carry and can’t cover any other positions is poor selection Having bigger lad like jos or Coombes or Wycherley who cover 6-8 and lock in Coombes or Wycherleys case is a better idea. Plus those 3 guys are all guys who could benefit from minutes in this cauldron

Thought JJ mixed the good with the bad but more importantly he was central to us scoring 3 tries through the backline. 6 months ago we’d still be bashing away at the line with the fat lads.

Personally I’d have started knox or Ryan (salanoa out with a short term knock). Archer is fine but you’re really not going to win anything with him.
Knox particularly is a good carrier so could make a better impact option. Scrum was under mega pressure

Not sure about loughman. Long stint for him but his scrummaging needs to improve. While Cronin can be a penalty machine if fit he’s a better option behind killer

Niall scannell was a good bit off the pace. First game I know but there’s a decent player there if we can shake it out of him. He looks like he’s overthinking it a lot. Kelleher was excellent round the park

Holland is the glue and the brains of the pack. No Coincidence our lineout still functioned well even with all the injuries. Bigger issue for me now is billy will play loads of the bigger games while previously I hope he’d play the smaller games and babysit young Ahern.

Tod had an average game. Vdf excellent

Farrell and DDA looked decent.
Daly looks an excellent option at this level. Might be a better attacker than Haley


For Leinster ringrose And Doris shone for me. Doris vdf and cj/conan would be a tasty Irish backrow. Healy was his usual self. Lad dishes out some serious punishment. It’s not tuddlywinks
Assuming Kelleher sorts his darts there’s a super player there. Bull of a lad.
Baird survived well. Covers a lot of ground. Obviously a player for the future. Could have been caught for a marginally forward pass for the try but thems the breaks

I agree very much with your comments on flanker selection. Jack O'Donoghue was Munster's form forward before Covid-19 and was obviously missed, but I think van Graan's selection of his replacement/s was predictable, conservative and stale.

That sort of selection has been one of van Graan's biggest weaknesses, and if it's not remedied urgently it's going to leave Munster in a serious hole in about two years' time when guys like Kilcoyne, Archer, Ryan, O'Mahony, Murray and Earls are 33/34/35 and at the end of their playing careers. You would want lads like Gavin Coombes, Josh Hodnett and Jack O'Sullivan [a viable No6, No7 and No8 backrow right there] to have 35-40 appearances to their respective names at that stage.

Jack O'Donoghue had played in 53 [31+22] games for Munster under Foley and Erasmus before he turned 23. Coombes turns 23 in 4 months and has played 14 games [3+11]; O'Sullivan turns 23 in 14 months and has played 7 games [3+4]; and Hodnett has the most time [he won't turn 23 until Jan 2022], but he has only played 2 [1+1] senior games.

Obviously you can look back over O'Donoghue's early career and he was playing No6, No7 and No8, so it's not realistic for three different players [i.e. Coombes, Hodnett and O'Sullivan] to hoover up that number of games. But picking lads like TOD and Cloete [both of them] ahead of any one of the younger players is not just short-termism, it's not even useful.

TOD has lots of miles on the clock and is really getting on. He was a big player for Rassie in 2016-17 ... but that's 3+ years ago, and in the intervening period he has picked up a load of injuries. He has always been a hard working player for Munster and had a couple of cracking seasons [2012-13 was a real breakout year for him, I remember], but I thought Munster were a little bit generous to extend his contract out to June 2021 a couple of years ago.

I certainly don't begrudge him the contract. He's an honest, hard-working and clean player. But from the outside looking in, paying a frequently-injured openside to turn 34 on your books seemed like something Munster just didn't need to do. They gave Cloete a mid-contract extension at the same time [in October 2018: https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2018/10/18/ ... continues/ ] which takes him up to June 2022. "I have to tie Cloete down for the next four years" ... really?

[paddyor]

In fairness it was a fairly tame post, I was just pointing out that the game was a lot closer than some comments would suggest.

Comments such as calling archer a J4 prop, hinting that the Munster selection was wrong and the team was too old.
Stander is carrying the pack.
De Allende is completely disinterested.
Murray looks even more snail paced.
Klyne is nothing more than a cart horse.

Even before the game posts were suggesting that Holland is a less than average player.

I apologies if all that came across as a hissy fit.
I even stated that Leinster were deserving winners, but some of the comments are a bit odd, especially when you consider how close the game actually was.

On a rugby front, rather a pi55ing contest, I doubt that either team will be overjoyed by how that game played out.

I suspect that Leinster will win the league, but they will find it difficult against Saracens.

Munster will struggle against Connacht, especially with their ever growing injury list, but Leinster will most likely hockey Munster in the Semi.

Making a list are you?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Just to add to Hugo’s point, JOD wasn’t actually very good when he first broke through. Brilliant at underage level and known as a big prospect but he was quite disappointing for a while, but then improved with all that game time. Not sure JVG is so willing to develop someone like that.

I get the need for immediate success and they need to hit the ground running after the break but a lot of the older players he’s putting his trust in haven’t really delivered a whole lot for him. It’s fair enough to back someone like Murray who has been world class and is important to Ireland (and I thought he was excellent on Saturday) but the tightheads, Kleyn, and Cloete? Not so much. Very easy to bring in at least one young player for one of them.

[ronk]

Daly at fullback was a move in the opposite direction. But having just signed a 2nd exile with international ambitions at fullback, it was important to ignore him.