Pro 14 Semi-final vs Munster, Friday Sept 4th, 7.35pm

[Dave Cahill]

I don't think it's against the laws to jump across the lineout?

It isn't

[mildlyinterested]

Possible side:

1. Healy
2. Kelleher
3. Porter
4. Fardy
5. Toner
6. Doris
7. JVDF
8. Conan
9. McGrath
10. Sexton
11. Lowe
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. Byrne
18. Bent
19. Baird
20. Connors
21. JGP
22. Byrne
23. Kelleher

[Up Wexford]

It's an obvious statement but as always, the main "must do"s when playing Munster are keeping 15 players on the pitch for 80 mins and avoiding conceding silly pens around midfield (or closer to goal obviously). In the last 2 games all their tries, bar one, came against 14 or 13 men. The one other try was was from a penalty kicked to the corner.
The breakdown needs to be reffed properly and consistently, as does jumping across the lineout (or being thrown) - otherwise we'll have yet another complete breakdown mess and more injuries.

+1. Steady heads and competent reffing will go a long way to getting us the W on Friday.

POM - if a player is constantly looking for a way to cheat to get an edge (last years ridiculous bind on the scrum, this season jumping across the lineout) maybe he's just not that good? If I hear another word about his magical spring in the lineout I swear to god

I don't think it's against the laws to jump across the lineout?

POM is certainly the best defensive lineout exponent in Ireland probably one of the best in Europe. He's hugely dangerous if we don't tighten things up considerably on the first game.

Its been a few years since I caught a ball in anger but jumping across the lineout is legal of course. Sometimes refs call it if they barge into the opposite jumping pod, thats illegal,I think Dev got pinged for it in the Munster game.

Jumping across the lineout, impedeing/interfereing with the opposition jumper, then landing offside are things POM (and every lineout operator worth his salt) does. POM does this perfectly, consistently, and without getting caught. The lineout has traditionally been Munsters strength and I'm glad to see that tradition continue. POM is pretty good at lineout but it stops there though. We need to have a discussion regarding the national team as to what to do with him I think - Im delighted Munster persist encouraging him with his minimal impact in the loose and a one a game turnover. When the evaluation of a player for two to three years amounts to "great at the unseen work" that could also be read as "doing the bare minimum"

[Up Wexford]

Haha Im trying to post an image here but its just too technical for me to figure out how - but there was a great photo in the Irish times after the munster match where Doris and Deegan clatter O Mahony - changing of the guard /.img

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't think it's against the laws to jump across the lineout?

It isn't

Not technically but in reality that’s irrelevant because the lifters are offside because they’ll have crossed into the gap. The POM one last week that he stole on the Munster 5m line was a classic example. Sure he’s able to end up in front of Ryan Baird, but not if his lifters are in front and/or behind him.

The offside line is also the ball so jumping across will generally mean that the the jumper goes past that. Not so much an issue if there’s lifters, but a big problem if you’re being flung across.

[Dave Cahill]

I don't think it's against the laws to jump across the lineout?

It isn't

Not technically but in reality that’s irrelevant because the lifters are offside because they’ll have crossed into the gap. The POM one last week that he stole on the Munster 5m line was a classic example. Sure he’s able to end up in front of Ryan Baird, but not if his lifters are in front and/or behind him.

The offside line is also the ball so jumping across will generally mean that the the jumper goes past that. Not so much an issue if there’s lifters, but a big problem if you’re being flung across.

The gap must only be maintained until the ball leaves the throwing in player's hand. After that they are entitled to cross into the gap though not cross the line of touch.

The ball isn't the offside line until its caught or hits the deck, the line of touch is. Once the ball is thrown, if the player catches it, he can land wherever he wants either side of what was the offside line. If he misses the catch, and lands on the wrong side of the offside line then, as long as he does so immediately, he can retreat to his own side without being penalised

[heno]

I’m familiar with the changes since 2015 but since Cardiff has been cancelled they can apply any criteria they want so why not best placed team. The quarantine rules your quoting won’t necessarily apply the same to sports teams under constant monitoring. The football team are playing a game in Bulgaria then playing Finland in Dublin a few days later, also if the 2 week rule was to apply the champions cup probably wouldn’t finish. There is a difference between people who are being regularly tested and members of the public who won’t be tested at all when crossing borders.

Even if Ravenhill gets around quarantine it’s a more dangerous proposition as it moves two full set ups (if Edinburgh qualify) to a third location. Also if Ulster qualify it’s the same actual risk whichever team travels.

"Currently, the highest-seeded team to qualify for the Guinness PRO14 Final on September 12 will host the game. After the abbreviated 15 round regular season, the seeding will be:

Leinster Rugby (69 points)
Edinburgh Rugby (51 points)
Munster Rugby (51 points)
Ulster Rugby (44 points)"

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/match-ne ... -edinburgh

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[meathman3]

Anyone think that Ross Byrne could lose out to Frawley on the bench thus freeing up the 23 jersey for another backrow? 6/2 split like in the match a week ago?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

It isn't

Not technically but in reality that’s irrelevant because the lifters are offside because they’ll have crossed into the gap. The POM one last week that he stole on the Munster 5m line was a classic example. Sure he’s able to end up in front of Ryan Baird, but not if his lifters are in front and/or behind him.

The offside line is also the ball so jumping across will generally mean that the the jumper goes past that. Not so much an issue if there’s lifters, but a big problem if you’re being flung across.

The gap must only be maintained until the ball leaves the throwing in player's hand. After that they are entitled to cross into the gap though not cross the line of touch.

The ball isn't the offside line until its caught or hits the deck, the line of touch is. Once the ball is thrown, if the player catches it, he can land wherever he wants either side of what was the offside line. If he misses the catch, and lands on the wrong side of the offside line then, as long as he does so immediately, he can retreat to his own side without being penalised

Not really sure what you’re trying to argue here. My point is that if you end up jumping in front of someone else then it’s going to be because your lifters have gone offside or you’ve been flung into an offside position. In practice that’s how it works and it’s illegal.

Keeping the gap is the bigger issue really (and I’ve been saying this for 18 months btw) but my frustration around it is that if you see a jumper get up directly in front of someone then you can pretty much guarantee that they’ve got there illegally (Although with the gap issue they can often both be illegal of course) and it’s very obvious to the naked eye. It should be even more obvious with repeat offenders like POM and Itoje so officials should be aware of it before reffing them.

[mildlyinterested]

Rhys Ruddock came through the game against Ulster Rugby with no issues following his return from a quadriceps injury and is expected to be available for selection this week against Munster Rugby.

There was also an update on Tadhg Furlong who will be reviewed further this week regarding involvement on Friday following his return from a back injury.

Ahead of the game against Ulster Rugby there was the welcome sight of James Ryan and Dan Leavy taking part in the warm-up and Cullen confirmed that both have recovered from shoulder and knee injuries respectively but that they will both be assessed further this week in training before a final decision is made.

There was also positive news for Fergus McFadden who has started running as he steps up his rehabilitation from a calf injury, although the game on Friday is too soon for him.

There was no new injury update on Vakh Abdaladze (back), Dave Kearney (hamstring), Conor O’Brien (hamstring) and Adam Byrne (hamstring).

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Hard to know when there’d be a good time to pick Leavy but that’s great that it sounds like he’s ready and hopefully Ryan will be good to go.

Really curious about this selection. I’m sure it’ll broadly be the team that played last week but can still imagine a few changes.

[Jonny tight lips]

"Currently, the highest-seeded team to qualify for the Guinness PRO14 Final on September 12 will host the game. After the abbreviated 15 round regular season, the seeding will be:

Leinster Rugby (69 points)
Edinburgh Rugby (51 points)
Munster Rugby (51 points)
Ulster Rugby (44 points)"

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/match-ne ... -edinburgh

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
[/quote]

Makes sense,

[wixfjord]

I wonder are we planning to use the upcoming A team games to give Leavy a run?

Ryan benching for this would be a big boost.

Doesn't sound like they're too sure on Tadhg. Would prefer to bench Bent and ensure he's 100%.

[cormac]

Suspect that it'll be a week too soon for Furlong, Leavy and Ryan.

[Dave Cahill]

The point is that you're allowed cross into the gap, the gap only exists while the lineout is being formed. Being in the gap isn't offside either way.

Once the lineout starts, with the release of the ball, the gap is no longer in existence in law, the only line is the line or mark of touch, which also marks the offside line.

Once the ball is in the air, there is no offside line for the player in pursuit of the ball once he has started from an onside position (his side of the mark of touch) and is outside the gap when the ball is in the hands of the throwing in player.

Basically, it is perfectly legal for a pod to step into the gap the split second the hooker throws in the ball, and perfectly legal for the player in the air in pursuit of the ball to be whooshed or jump across the mark of touch as long as he doesn't lever, hold, shove or illegally charge into an opposition player and, if he fails to win the ball, he retreats to his own side immediately.

Now, if you enter the gap early (before the ball is thrown), thats different bag of spatulas

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The last bit is the crux of it Dave. You can’t get across unless you’re illegal in the first place...unless you’re thrown like an acrobat or your knees bend at a 90 degree angle.

So yeah the ref can’t blow for jumping across, but if they see two jumpers directly in front of each other then alarm bells should be ringing as to how they got there.

[Blueberry]

The gap is infringed at pretty much every lineout as far as I can makeout and it does appear to be a bit of a lottery as to when 'jumping across' is called so it can be frustrating. I've always felt O'Mahony and his lifters constantly and endlessly skates on thin ice here but seems to get away with it. Players seems to get reputations as good lineout stealers and I wonder do refs sub-consciously give them a bit more slack.....

It's a frustrating part of the game at times.

I think touch judges need to play a bigger part here and during the active throwing phase of the lineout look closely at the support pod to see are they getting across into the 'gap' with bad / early timing pre ball throw - often you see a player getting penalised as he has got across the gap in the air but this isn't illegal as far as I understand it.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The gap is infringed at pretty much every lineout as far as I can makeout and it does appear to be a bit of a lottery as to when 'jumping across' is called so it can be frustrating. I've always felt O'Mahony and his lifters constantly and endlessly skates on thin ice here but seems to get away with it. Players seems to get reputations as good lineout stealers and I wonder do refs sub-consciously give them a bit more slack.....

It's a frustrating part of the game at times.

I think touch judges need to play a bigger part here and during the active throwing phase of the lineout look closely at the support pod to see are they getting across into the 'gap' with bad / early timing pre ball throw - often you see a player getting penalised as he has got across the gap in the air but this isn't illegal as far as I understand it.

Not just for lineouts, the TJs were useless yesterday. Murphy’s reffing of the breakdown was atrocious but he wasn’t helped but his assistants. Some of the side entries from Munster were ridiculous but they constantly got away with them. Also look at where POM is scrummaging for the penalty try...how the TJ missed that is beyond me.

If they get away with it again against us then it even things up massively, and not only that but I don’t want to see another Leavy injury because officials are too lax.

[Blueberry]

Possible side:

1. Healy
2. Kelleher
3. Porter
4. Fardy
5. Toner
6. Doris
7. JVDF
8. Conan
9. McGrath
10. Sexton
11. Lowe
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. Byrne
18. Bent
19. Baird
20. Connors
21. JGP
22. Byrne
23. Kelleher

Like the look of that - Ruddock I would like to see involved......would prefer him ahead of Connors and would have no problem with him starting and Doris benching. Always been a massive Ruddock fan...If Furlong is fit then he should slip in instead of Bent but Porter should start as he's fully match fit. Would love to see Frawley involved but tricky with the bench split and cover. He was outstanding v Ulster.

[Blueberry]

The gap is infringed at pretty much every lineout as far as I can makeout and it does appear to be a bit of a lottery as to when 'jumping across' is called so it can be frustrating. I've always felt O'Mahony and his lifters constantly and endlessly skates on thin ice here but seems to get away with it. Players seems to get reputations as good lineout stealers and I wonder do refs sub-consciously give them a bit more slack.....

It's a frustrating part of the game at times.

I think touch judges need to play a bigger part here and during the active throwing phase of the lineout look closely at the support pod to see are they getting across into the 'gap' with bad / early timing pre ball throw - often you see a player getting penalised as he has got across the gap in the air but this isn't illegal as far as I understand it.

Not just for lineouts, the TJs were useless yesterday. Murphy’s reffing of the breakdown was atrocious but he wasn’t helped but his assistants. Some of the side entries from Munster were ridiculous but they constantly got away with them. Also look at where POM is scrummaging for the penalty try...how the TJ missed that is beyond me.

If they get away with it again against us then it even things up massively, and not only that but I don’t want to see another Leavy injury because officials are too lax.

Agree totally - POM has been taking the p**s for years with his scrummaging but never gets pinged for it.

TJ's need to actually perform as assistant refs which they are and not TJ's - I think there is a stupid reluctance even sub consciously to avoid stepping on the refs toes............in the junior amateur game where you have two dad's running up and down the sidelines it's fine that all they doing is calling the ball in and out but seriously in the PRO game it's bloody nonsense - there are three refs plus a TMO on the pitch......offside is a classic one....I have sympathy for the ref sometimes as they can be caught off position or out of line with the line so to speak so it's hard to judge but TJ's should be parallel with the defensive offside line at all times to catch infringments.....it is the one thing which if policed better would open the game up no end as it gives more space.